Brexit - What Now.

[BroxburnHibee]

Apologies for another thread but after last night's results be interesting to see whether people think it will actually happen.

Will we leave on the 31st October?

[makaveli1875]

No we wont . Maybe the politicians can learn something from this . If they want to change the status quo on a big issue like this then a clear majority is required at the polls , 60% required to win or something along those lines .

[Fife-Hibee]

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No we wont . Maybe the politicians can learn something from this . If they want to change the status quo on a big issue like this then a clear majority is required at the polls , 60% required to win or something along those lines .

Democracy doesn't work on 60%. In fact, it completely undermines it.

[makaveli1875]

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Democracy doesn't work on 60%. In fact, it completely undermines it.

Democracy is falling apart on 52% . If 1 side had got 60% we wouldnt be having these arguments , it would be clear cut and decisive .

[lapsedhibee]

Don't know yet. Too early to say whether Farageism has peaked. Despite more people having voted anti-Brexit than pro-Brexit, Brexit Ultras like Redwood are describing last week's vote as a 'third vote to leave'.

If we do leave on October 31, the UK will start to break up imo. Ireland first, then Scotland.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Democracy is falling apart on 52% . If 1 side had got 60% we wouldnt be having these arguments , it would be clear cut and decisive .

The issue isn't the percentage of the result. It's the details behind what the result actually meant. Even if leave had won by 70%+ the same issues would still be apparent. There was no clear information on what "leave" actually meant.

[makaveli1875]

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The issue isn't the percentage of the result. It's the details behind what the result actually meant. Even if leave had won by 70%+ the same issues would still be apparent. There was no clear information on what "leave" actually meant.

heres the dictionary definition of leave incase your in any doubt

"she left London on June 6"

synonyms:

depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from

[Fife-Hibee]

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heres the dictionary definition of leave incase your in any doubt

"she left London on June 6"

synonyms:

depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from

Because it's that simple isn't it? "Leave means Leave" right? We just simply "leave". Never mind the details behind how we do that in a sensible manner, or the vision for our future relationships with Europe and the rest of the world. Nope, we just "leave".

[grunt]

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heres the dictionary definition of leave incase your in any doubt

"she left London on June 6"

synonyms:

depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from

You should be in the audience for the next #BBCQT

[JeMeSouviens]

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heres the dictionary definition of leave incase your in any doubt

"she left London on June 6"

synonyms:

depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from

And the thing the UK was to "depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from" was membership of the EU. The government has negotiated something that clearly falls within that definition and the Leavers don't accept it as leaving. So **** them, call the whole nonsense off and move on.

[makaveli1875]

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You should be in the audience for the next #BBCQT

Couldnt think of many worse ways to spend an evening .

[makaveli1875]

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And the thing the UK was to "depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from" was membership of the EU. The government has negotiated something that clearly falls within that definition and the Leavers don't accept it as leaving. So **** them, call the whole nonsense off and move on.

The remainers dont accept it either , if they did the issue would be settled by now

[JeMeSouviens]

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The remainers dont accept it either , if they did the issue would be settled by now

Almost all the Remainers in the Tory party did. It's Tory legislation to enact a Tory negotiated deal brought forward by a Tory government. If the Tories can't/won't deliver it then it's got **** all to do with anyone else. Hell mend them.

[Fife-Hibee]

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The remainers dont accept it either , if they did the issue would be settled by now

Democracy isn't about accepting results. In fact, the exact opposite is true. It's the freedom to express one's views, even if they're in a minority. Remainers were never going to stop being remainers after the result. Just as indy supporters in Scotland were never going to stop being indy supporters in Scotland after the result. An open democracy allows for that.

[lord bunberry]

I think we’ll leave with no deal at the end of October. There will be an independence referendum soon after and Scotland will leave the UK.

[JeMeSouviens]

It looks like compromise is well and truly dead.

So I think it'll play out like this:

- The Tories will have a renegotiate-or-no-deal leader in a few weeks.
- There'll be no renegotiation from the EU side so presumably they'll have to try for No Deal.
- No Deal still unlikely to get through with parliament's consent.
- I think there are enough non-lunatic Tories who will threaten to collapse the government.

Which leaves:

- a general election with the Tories for No deal and Labour/Lib/SNP for Remain

The fly in the ointment is old fascist Farage. He might be persuaded to stand down his mob if the new Tory leader commits to no deal (and would probably have to be offered a peerage or something as well ). If he doesn't, then a GE will be extremely hard for the Tories to win. In that circumstance it's just about conceivable there could be a No Deal vs Remain ref2. Brexit death match!

[Smartie]

Tories will have a new leader who will promise to "get tough" with the EU and get an improved deal.

Leader will attempt, and fail, to renegotiate deal.

Not sure if there will be a General Election at that point. If there is, victory is there and waiting for the Labour Party campaigning on a remain vote and the hard Brexit we all dread may be averted. If their numpty in charge cannot see what is right in front of him (which he might not) then god knows what might happen.

I don't think he'll get it and I think a hard Brexit is almost inevitable.

Scotland won't be allowed another referendum for at least a decade and frustration will rise.

The rest of the UK will get poorer post-Brexit, look for someone else to blame and notice that Scotland is a significant drain on their resources as our economy struggles without free movement within the EU.

Scotland will remain dependent for about another 10-15 years until we become a serious drain financially and emotionally on the UK and English anger has risen further, stoked by Farage in his next project.

We have another referendum.

The risks over using the pound/ bawbee/ euro become a risk worth taking and we become independent.

Hopefully the EU is still in existence then.

[grunt]

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Scotland will remain dependent for about another 10-15 years until we become a serious drain financially and emotionally on the UK and English anger has risen further ...

Well you're a barrel of laughs today.

[Fife-Hibee]

Scotland:
"I've hud enough.... turn off the English life support machine."

[Smartie]

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Well you're a barrel of laughs today.

Do you disagree?

[grunt]

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Do you disagree?

It's not a case of agreeing or disagreeing. I just think it's a very depressing outlook.

[Smartie]

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It's not a case of agreeing or disagreeing. I just think it's a very depressing outlook.

It really is.

I am genuinely concerned about the outlook for Scotland over the next decade or so and what any sort of Brexit might mean for us here.

[GlesgaeHibby]

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Don't know yet. Too early to say whether Farageism has peaked. Despite more people having voted anti-Brexit than pro-Brexit, Brexit Ultras like Redwood are describing last week's vote as a 'third vote to leave'.

If we do leave on October 31, the UK will start to break up imo. Ireland first, then Scotland.

Not really true that though. Labour and Tory official policy is to support Brexit.

Corbyn is still sitting on the fence this morning. Labour members should be up in arms to get him booted out.

[Jack Hackett]

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2h ago11:19
UK: Corbyn says Brexit will have to go back to the public

The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has been speaking to the BBC after last night’s poor election results for his party. The MP for Islington North said Labour had had a very clear Brexit policy all along, adding it was clear that the issue would have to be put to the public again in a general election or a public vote.

Jez must have sore baws stradding his very clear policy

[JeMeSouviens]

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Jez must have sore baws stradding his very clear policy

Slightly o/t but when did it become a thing for politicians to defend notoriously unclear policy by banging on about how clear it is? Hopefully with May gone we are past peak-clarity.

[lapsedhibee]

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Not really true that though. Labour and Tory official policy is to support Brexit.

True. But their official policy was to support Brexit in the 2017 general election, leading to claims that because 82% voted for them, 82% want Brexit, claims which (I believe) are wholly false. So official policy is not a good knockdown indicator of the true position.

Corbyn is still sitting on the fence this morning. Labour members should be up in arms to get him booted out.

Amen to that.

[Jack Hackett]

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Slightly o/t but when did it become a thing for politicians to defend notoriously unclear policy by banging on about how clear it is? Hopefully with May gone we are past peak-clarity.

Whenever it started, she's clearly () up there with the most repetitive... and that's just up to January


Let me be clear.jpg

... and that's just in Parliament

[Bangkok Hibby]

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Whenever it started, she's clearly () up there with the most repetitive... and that's just up to January


Let me be clear.jpg

... and that's just in Parliament

One of my very biggest pet hates with politicians (I have many) The word "clear" was never mentioned until about 15 years ago (I'm getting on and my memory may be playing tricks) when one bright spark PR person came up with the idea to insert the word into every interview so the thick public would believe what they were being told. As happens with buzz words in politics they've all latched onto it and it now just sounds utterly ridiculous. Another is "kick the can down the road" aaaarrgghhh!!

[SHODAN]

Get off the fence Corbyn or get out.

Unbelievable he's still doing this. Surely the grassroots members will push for a change now.

[RyeSloan]

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Get off the fence Corbyn or get out.

Unbelievable he's still doing this. Surely the grassroots members will push for a change now.

What is his position (daft question I know!)?

As far as I can tell it’s that he still backs Brexit but will only call a second ref on a revised deal and only if that’s after a GE?

But he has no position on what happens without a GE?