Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[IGRIGI]

Davidson does need brought down a peg or 12, the "What am I like?!?!" act that the Scottish media laps up is badly needing a take down.

Hopefully when she starts the next career move down south she'll get found out, the cuddly act won't get her over with the South of England lot.

[Mibbes Aye]

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I was told fairly recently by someone who used to work for the SNP that they, and many others within the party, see the National as extreme, and representing the loony wing of the pro-Indy movement too much.

It's almost as if it has become a mirror image of the very pro-union rags these people railed against, like the Mail.

It's a shame, because a serious, pro-indy daily would have been no bad thing.

The pro-indy movement is crying out for someone or something that can make an intellectual argument for its case rather than emotive, inward-looking tirades based on false and contrived differentiation.

[snooky]

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The pro-indy movement is crying out for someone or something that can make an intellectual argument for its case rather than emotive, inward-looking tirades based on false and contrived differentiation.

TBH, I think all parties are lacking a leader with charisma and (perceived) honesty & integrity.
The first party to find such a person is on a home run.

[Mibbes Aye]

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TBH, I think all parties are lacking a leader with charisma and (perceived) honesty & integrity.
The first party to find such a person is on a home run.

Yeah, I think there are two arguments here.

One is about making a plausible case for policy - I don't think anyone is doing that, at the moment. It's a massive failure.

Second is the charisma point you've highlighted. I can't conceive the circumstances in which I would vote Conservative, but Davidson stands miles higher than any of the other Scottish party leaders and probably the UK leaders.

Not everyone will agree with that but it doesn't need everyone to agree with it. If she keeps ploughing a furrow of Iain Macleod one-nation Toryism while making it contemporary, then she will hoover up votes.

There was a time when the Tories would struggle to be more favourable than the NF or BNP in Scotland. She's changed that.

[Glory Lurker]

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Not everyone will agree with that but it doesn't need everyone to agree with it. If she keeps ploughing a furrow of Iain Macleod one-nation Toryism while making it contemporary, then she will hoover up votes.

There was a time when the Tories would struggle to be more favourable than the NF or BNP in Scotland. She's changed that.

Thankfully there is little evidence that she is hoovering up any more votes than she did last year, indeed there’s a suggestion in polling over the last few months that she’s lost some of that.

Your second paragraph there is a bit extreme.

[snooky]

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Come on Fluffy, let's see those broad shoulders of support we were all promised.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...tland-44316580

And to follow up my original post above....
https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-whif...y/#more-103843

Try fluffing this one off, Mundell.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Thankfully there is little evidence that she is hoovering up any more votes than she did last year, indeed there’s a suggestion in polling over the last few months that she’s lost some of that.

Your second paragraph there is a bit extreme.

I'm not sure how old you are but there was a period through the late-eighties to the early and mid-nineties where the Tories declined massively in support in Scotland culminating in them having no seats after the 1997 election.

At that time you could understand that there were people who would back extremist and racist groups like NF or the BNP, there will always be people like that. But understanding why people would vote Conservative was near on impossible. It was a failing administration that had inflicted policies that had no traction whatsoever and encouraged civil protest.

Tories were toxic for a long, long time. Davidson, and in fairness Goldie, have brought them back into the game. It's foolish not to pretend that isn't so.

I was going to leave it there but as a further gambit - this isn't a partisan point - I suspect the Scottish electorate is innately 'conservative', note the small 'c'.

Who has the most appeal?

[Glory Lurker]

Sadly very much old enough to remember the 80s, Mibbes Aye

Even in 97 the Tory vote iirc was in the low 20s (in fact not much less than Davidson’s “triumphant” high water mark). There is no comparison to BNP and NF.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Sadly very much old enough to remember the 80s, Mibbes Aye

Even in 97 the Tory vote iirc was in the low 20s (in fact not much less than Davidson’s “triumphant” high water mark). There is no comparison to BNP and NF.

That's not really answering my point.

The Tories were absolutely toxic for a long, long time in Scotland. Whatever your view of Davidson, she has made them a serious player in the political process.

[Glory Lurker]

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That's not really answering my point.

The Tories were absolutely toxic for a long, long time in Scotland. Whatever your view of Davidson, she has made them a serious player in the political process.

You suggested that the Tories were down there with BNP and NF in acceptability with the Scottish electorate. You and me both know that’s not remotely right.

Obviously I can’t argue that the Tories have made constituency gains under Davidson. Still less MPs than 1987 with only a few percent more of the vote compared with the 1997 wipeout. Serious player? As much as the leader of an opposition party with no chance of government whatsoever could be, I suppose.

[snooky]

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I'm not sure how old you are but there was a period through the late-eighties to the early and mid-nineties where the Tories declined massively in support in Scotland culminating in them having no seats after the 1997 election.

At that time you could understand that there were people who would back extremist and racist groups like NF or the BNP, there will always be people like that. But understanding why people would vote Conservative was near on impossible. It was a failing administration that had inflicted policies that had no traction whatsoever and encouraged civil protest.

Tories were toxic for a long, long time. Davidson, and in fairness Goldie, have brought them back into the game. It's foolish not to pretend that isn't so.

I was going to leave it there but as a further gambit - this isn't a partisan point - I suspect the Scottish electorate is innately 'conservative', note the small 'c'.

Who has the most appeal?

Never been a Tory fan however, I have a lot of respect for Annabel Goldie.

[Mr Grieves]

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Bloodless ghouls? The article is so full of petty and rather childish descriptions of ‘Tories’ that it’s almost impossible to take any of the rest of it seriously.

I’m sure there is plenty of examination the National could do on Ruth and the Scottish Conservatives policies but it should really try and do so without littering it’s articles with tawdry insults and name calling...they never know it might help the reader to think that the article was at least half based on an objective view.

Any opinion on Ruth Davidson then?

[IGRIGI]

A serious player 😂😂😂

[Mr Grieves]

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I was told fairly recently by someone who used to work for the SNP that they, and many others within the party, see the National as extreme, and representing the loony wing of the pro-Indy movement too much.

It's almost as if it has become a mirror image of the very pro-union rags these people railed against, like the Mail.

It's a shame, because a serious, pro-indy daily would have been no bad thing.

"These people"?

[Mr Grieves]

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I was told fairly recently by someone who used to work for the SNP that they, and many others within the party, see the National as extreme, and representing the loony wing of the pro-Indy movement too much.

It's almost as if it has become a mirror image of the very pro-union rags these people railed against, like the Mail.

It's a shame, because a serious, pro-indy daily would have been no bad thing.

"These people"?

[johnbc70]

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"These people"?

The loony lefties?

[RyeSloan]

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Any opinion on Ruth Davidson then?

Aye, a bit of a blaw bag that’s reasonably good at campaigning, has her party under control and has fashioned a half decent reputation in political circles as well as knowing how to resonate with a good chunk of the electorate.

As for her policies, they seem a bit of a hotch potch, some I’m mildly supportive of, others not so but then I struggle with all main parties policies so that’s probably my feelings to most of them (apart from Corbyn and McDonald where I’m probably pretty far removed from their main direction of travel)

What I can do though is look at a parties policies and at least try to make an objective assessment of them without immediately resorting to name calling and desperately trying to paint any member of the party as ‘loonies’ or ‘dinosaurs’ or ‘ghouls’

[Mr Grieves]

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Aye, a bit of a blaw bag that’s reasonably good at campaigning, has her party under control and has fashioned a half decent reputation in political circles as well as knowing how to resonate with a good chunk of the electorate.

As for her policies, they seem a bit of a hotch potch, some I’m mildly supportive of, others not so but then I struggle with all main parties policies so that’s probably my feelings to most of them (apart from Corbyn and McDonald where I’m probably pretty far removed from their main direction of travel)

What I can do though is look at a parties policies and at least try to make an objective assessment of them without immediately resorting to name calling and desperately trying to paint any member of the party as ‘loonies’ or ‘dinosaurs’ or ‘ghouls’

Fair play. I don't think the article was over the top with regards to name calling, but I'm not particularly objective when it comes to Ruth Davidson.

[RyeSloan]

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Fair play. I don't think the article was over the top with regards to name calling, but I'm not particularly objective when it comes to Ruth Davidson.

Ha ha fair enough...the article was probably written for you then! It even calls her a ‘shameless charlatan’ in the headline so starts off by calling her names right at the start, it then continues to be rather derogatory to her and the members of her party throughout.

As I said such articles are not gonna be taken with any weight by people not already on board with such things, which while probably right up your street, doesn’t to me at least, do much to further the conversation or indeed persuade me that the side calling the other one names is any more likely to be trusted or believed than the target of the article.

[Stranraer]

My Dad buys The National and there was a letter in it the last week that said the newspaper was bumming up to the extreme indy supporters. I know a few Scottish nationalists who still buy The Herald, even though it's a Unionist paper.

[heretoday]

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Any opinion on Ruth Davidson then?

She's taking a lot on herself. When she gets down to Westminster (which she will have to do) she'll get blown out of the water by the mysterious types around there.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Any opinion on Ruth Davidson then?

Good at the media/pr bit, as you’d expect from a former news tv person. Has capitalised on the single issue anti-indy platform to make the tories somewhat relevant.

I’m far from convinced there’s any substance to her beyond that though. Her policy positions have flip flopped all over the place. Starting from the “line in the sand” that got washed over in minutes.

[snooky]

On the subject of Ruth Davidson.
I see there's a new book out where it is claiming she was "****ing furious" regarding the No campaigners release of "The Vow".
This screams of the wee boy that shouts "It wisny me, honest. A big boy did it an ran away."
What a pathetic attempt to wriggle her out of the biggest lie of the whole Indy1 campaign - and there are a load of whoppers to choose from.

[Colr]

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She's taking a lot on herself. When she gets down to Westminster (which she will have to do) she'll get blown out of the water by the mysterious types around there.

Neither of the people who look vaguely promising as future leaders are MPs. One is Ruth Davidson the other David Milliband.

We’re stuck with the current crop of disconnected dotards for a while.

(i was trying to come up with an alternative LibDem but couldn’t!)

[heretoday]

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Neither of the people who look vaguely promising as future leaders are MPs. One is Ruth Davidson the other David Milliband.

We’re stuck with the current crop of disconnected dotards for a while.

(i was trying to come up with an alternative LibDem but couldn’t!)

I dunno. Willie Rennie's a decent sort.

[Bristolhibby]

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And to follow up my original post above....
https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-whif...y/#more-103843

Try fluffing this one off, Mundell.

That’s scandalous. First that it happened, and second that the exact opposite of blame is being apportioned.

However, what do you expect.

Wake up Peeps!

J

[JeMeSouviens]

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Ha ha fair enough...the article was probably written for you then! It even calls her a ‘shameless charlatan’ in the headline so starts off by calling her names right at the start, it then continues to be rather derogatory to her and the members of her party throughout.

As I said such articles are not gonna be taken with any weight by people not already on board with such things, which while probably right up your street, doesn’t to me at least, do much to further the conversation or indeed persuade me that the side calling the other one names is any more likely to be trusted or believed than the target of the article.

Here's one from Mandy Rhodes, the editor of "Holyrood" magazine (which aiui, is a fairly neutral source?)

http://www.holyrood.com/articles/com...-her-own-party

Essentially makes much the same points without the vitriol.

[One Day Soon]

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Here's one from Mandy Rhodes, the editor of "Holyrood" magazine (which aiui, is a fairly neutral source?)

http://www.holyrood.com/articles/com...-her-own-party

Essentially makes much the same points without the vitriol.

Mandy Rhodes is very far from being regarded as neutral by most non SNP people.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Mandy Rhodes is very far from being regarded as neutral by most non SNP people.

Ah ok, I (genuinely) didn't know that. Maybe just a more polite version of the same article then. It rings pretty true to me but I'm not exactly neutral when it comes to Tories, even opportunistically centrist ones.

[Hibrandenburg]

Tory blocks new bill to counter growing perv problem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-44496427