Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Ozyhibby]

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/0...ing-and-sevco/


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[Tornadoes70]

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Who’s paying for all these costs

The rule of thumb is that the loser pays the entire costs of the case regardless of the loser's ability to pay. It is a matter for the Judges who have a modicum of discretion however the costs are a contest between the parties in dispute and the loser pays. Its one of the reasons why so few folk without resources are able to seek justice as costs are an enormous hurdle for them when taking the decision to pursue a case. If you can't obtain legal aid or no win no lose representation its impossible to win a case going forward as a Party Litigant which is the terminology for folk pursuing a case by themselves. Party Litigants often find themselves entering bankruptcy in order to avoid later costs as the establishment do not like Party Litigants and I've yet to hear of any Party Litigant having success as the Court of Session does not keep records on this highly contentious issue. Its a closed shop in reality. Its a feat in itself merely having the nous to provide the necessary substantial mostly complex paperwork that the vast majority of ordinary folk would have great difficulty in understanding never mind completing to a competent standard but that's exactly how they want it to be as they prefer the well spoken educated Counsel to doff their caps to the Lords who are mostly out of touch and elitist establishment snobs.

I'd be very surprised if the TP doesn't lodge a motion for costs to be awarded against King or they may already have at the bar just prior to the hearing which might not have been reported or they've been reserved for the time being until King decides whether to seek permission to appeal to the Supreme Court which is his prerogative to do so or not.

King would have to seek permission to appeal to the Supreme Court as he cannot appeal to the Supreme Court directly without firstly seeking the permission from the Court of Session which is an anomaly for if he's refused permission he can then appeal directly to them in any case. The Court of Session will refuse permission in my opinion based on their unambiguous judgement's thus far.

The losing party normally pays the winning side's costs.

Its also used as a weapon against ordinary folk who cannot obtain representation and who manage to have their cases heard in the first place.

However, very clearly King wasn't the impecunious person of little means fighting to have their case heard and should deservedly of course have the costs awarded against him. He is without doubt a chancer compared to the folk I'm referring to above.

mon the cabbage!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Can you remind me how much the Directors loans are?

The accounts don't show Directors' Loans separately, but in November "investor loans" were £15.9m.

[jacomo]

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"Lawyers for the South African had argued that a judge went "too far" in ruling against him." Love the arrogance of the man but my favourite bit is "Lord Bannatyne held that Mr King's argument that he does not have the funds to make the offer was "irrelevant"."

Seems the ‘glib and shameless liar’ lacks a little credibility with judges?

[Tornadoes70]

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Seems the ‘glib and shameless liar’ lacks a little credibility with judges?

These same Judges would in all likelihood have sided with King if the pursuing petitioning party hadn't been an authority themselves in my opinion. They're really not worthy of praise as in my experiences with them I know them to be a self serving bunch of elitist snobs who almost always side with fellow authorities. That's how I was able to voice my opinion many pages ago on this thread that they would certainly side with the TP.

No doubt King is a glib and shameless liar, however, so are the vast majority of those in positions of authority in my experience and opinion.





mon the cabbage!!!

[Bostonhibby]

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These same Judges would in all likelihood have sided with King if the pursuing petitioning party hadn't been an authority themselves in my opinion. They're really not worthy of praise as in my experiences with them I know them to be a self serving bunch of elitist snobs who almost always side with fellow authorities. That's how I was able to voice my opinion many pages ago on this thread that they would certainly side with the TP.

No doubt King is a glib and shameless liar, however, so are the vast majority of those in positions of authority in my experience and opinion.





mon the cabbage!!!

There's always the possibility they are interpreting the law as it was intended here, and following precedents.

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[Tornadoes70]

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There's always the possibility they are interpreting the law as it was intended here, and following precedents.

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I fully appreciate there will be folk who may wish to disagree with my comments or give an entirely different outlook. I've given my honest opinion wholly based on my experiences with them.






mon the cabbage!!!

[Bostonhibby]

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I fully appreciate there will be folk who may wish to disagree with my comments or give an entirely different outlook. I've given my honest opinion wholly based on my experiences with them.






mon the cabbage!!!

Probably doesn't help the appellant that he has the reputation he has........

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[Tornadoes70]

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Probably doesn't help the appellant that he has the reputation he has........

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His bluff has certainly now been called. Popcorn time as the saying goes as to how this will play out. Will he now pony up or is an administration event on the cards may just be the most apt questions at this point.


mon the cabbage!!!

[Prof. Shaggy]

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I fully appreciate there will be folk who may wish to disagree with my comments or give an entirely different outlook. I've given my honest opinion wholly based on my experiences with them.






mon the cabbage!!!

I'm happy, with limited first hand experience, to support your view.

[weecounty hibby]

Does this mean trouble ahead for der Hun? I don't pretend to understand any of this or care about King being a bell end, all I really care about is if that disgusting cesspit at Ibrox is in trouble again or not

[CropleyWasGod]

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Does this mean trouble ahead for der Hun? I don't pretend to understand any of this or care about King being a bell end, all I really care about is if that disgusting cesspit at Ibrox is in trouble again or not

Not immediately.

This is all about DK, or his company.

He may try and force administration, as a way of avoiding having to pay up.... but I'm not convinced that would work.

[weecounty hibby]

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Not immediately.

This is all about DK, or his company.

He may try and force administration, as a way of avoiding having to pay up.... but I'm not convinced that would work.

Not half as exciting as I'd hoped. Still, I suppose it makes them look stupid again which is never a bad thing. I was really hoping for another admin episode as well, maybe next time when the January spending catches up with them

[JeMeSouviens]

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Not half as exciting as I'd hoped. Still, I suppose it makes them look stupid again which is never a bad thing. I was really hoping for another admin episode as well, maybe next time when the January spending catches up with them

According to their annual report, King's family trust fund was on the hook to provide £7M shortfall in funding over this season and next. Rumours abound that other funding sources (the 3 bears etc) are tapped oot and King is failing to fill the gap, hence the Close Bros "overdraft". If he now has to keep £11M + costs aside for this, it's only going to make it worse (or better for us ).

[Fuzzywuzzy]

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According to their annual report, King's family trust fund was on the hook to provide £7M shortfall in funding over this season and next. Rumours abound that other funding sources (the 3 bears etc) are tapped oot and King is failing to fill the gap, hence the Close Bros "overdraft". If he now has to keep £11M + costs aside for this, it's only going to make it worse (or better for us ).

And yet they didn't want the £9.5m for morelos...........

[Tornadoes70]

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Not immediately.

This is all about DK, or his company.

He may try and force administration, as a way of avoiding having to pay up.... but I'm not convinced that would work.

I think administration is a likely outcome if he doesn't pony up for it might appear the only way to clear the decks and start afresh so to speak as far as the club is concerned with new owners starting from scratch. As for King he'd have to take the consequences whatever form they would take.

I'm merely speculating though but administration might just be the only way out to clear up the mess brought about by King and give some clarity. Its certainly chaos and flux unless he does the unexpected and actually ponies up although that appears unlikely as to his being a gasl.



mon the cabbage!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

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I think administration is a likely outcome if he doesn't pony up for it might appear the only way to clear the decks and start afresh so to speak as far as the club is concerned with new owners starting from scratch. As for King he'd have to take the consequences whatever form they would take.

I'm merely speculating though but administration might just be the only way out to clear up the mess brought about by King and give some clarity. Its certainly chaos and flux unless he does the unexpected and actually ponies up although that appears unlikely as to his being a gasl.



mon the cabbage!!!

It's not as simple as just clearing the decks. For one thing, I reckon DK would still have to make the share offer to the administrator.

For another, there are securities over the training ground (to the Sports Council) and now to Close Brothers for the car park and Edmiston House. These didn't exist last time.

[JeMeSouviens]

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It's not as simple as just clearing the decks. For one thing, I reckon DK would still have to make the share offer to the administrator.

For another, there are securities over the training ground (to the Sports Council) and now to Close Brothers for the car park and Edmiston House. These didn't exist last time.

What if DK gets bumped out of Sevco (as a director I mean, I'm not expecting anyone to actually buy his shares)? If DK then fails to make the offer, does the company stay clear of any ramifications or not?

[Tornadoes70]

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It's not as simple as just clearing the decks. For one thing, I reckon DK would still have to make the share offer to the administrator.

For another, there are securities over the training ground (to the Sports Council) and now to Close Brothers for the car park and Edmiston House. These didn't exist last time.

You know much more than I do regarding the ins and outs of administration events that's for certain. I'm merely speculating as to how this may evolve if King refuses to comply. Of course if the share issue proceeds as his Counsel indicated it would then I think talk of administration may have ended. If no compliance then nothings off the table so to speak with administration a likely outcome in my opinion.




mon the cabbage!!!

[Billy Whizz]

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You know much more than I do regarding the ins and outs of administration events that's for certain. I'm merely speculating as to how this may evolve if King refuses to comply. Of course if the share issue proceeds as his Counsel indicated it would then I think talk of administration may have ended. If no compliance then nothings off the table so to speak with administration a likely outcome in my opinion.




mon the cabbage!!!

Remind me, what’s the points penalty for administration this season

[Tornadoes70]

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Remind me, what’s the points penalty for administration this season

I honestly don't know. Some say 15 some say 25 possibly?

25 sounds better of the two possibilities though .





mon the cabbage!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

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What if DK gets bumped out of Sevco (as a director I mean, I'm not expecting anyone to actually buy his shares)? If DK then fails to make the offer, does the company stay clear of any ramifications or not?

Not sure TBH. It could be argued that the affair happened whilst he was involved with RFC.

However.... and I have only heard this, haven't actually seen it.... DK is alleged to have emailed the RFC Board to say that, if the case goes against him, his company would pay whatever is needed for the share offer. So, if that's to be believed......... the offer will be made and RFC will be clear of any action.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I honestly don't know. Some say 15 some say 25 possibly?

25 sounds better of the two possibilities though .





mon the cabbage!!!

They'd get -15 points this season and -5 next.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Remind me, what’s the points penalty for administration this season

Definitely 15. It's more than 5 years since the last one.

[Tornadoes70]

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They'd get -15 points this season and -5 next.

Cheers mate .








mon the cabbage!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

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They'd get -15 points this season and -5 next.

There's no -5.

From the SPFL site:-

E1 Subject to Rule E5, where a Club suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event that
Club shall be deducted 15 points in the League.
E2 Where an Insolvency Event occurs during a Season, the 15 points deduction shall be
applied immediately to take effect in the current Season.
E3 Where an Insolvency Event occurs during the Close Season the 15 points deduction
shall apply in respect of the immediately following Season, such that the relevant
Club starts that immediately following Season in the relevant Division on minus 15
points.
E4 Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an
Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting during a second or
later Season then, for each such second or later Season, during the whole or part of
which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting,
the Club concerned shall be deducted 15 points and shall start each such second or
later Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points.
E5 Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member,
suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event which results in a deduction of points in
terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers
or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency
Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in
terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25
points with the 15 points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points.

[Deansy]

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And yet they didn't want the £9.5m for morelos...........

Ha-ha-ha - couldn't believe it when I read that - even their own knuckle-draggers are embarassed !!

[Billy Whizz]

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They'd get -15 points this season and -5 next.

And if it’s in the close season, is it back or forward applied?

[CropleyWasGod]

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And if it’s in the close season, is it back or forward applied?

See above.

They start the new season on -15, as Hearts did.

[Billy Whizz]

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See above.

They start the new season on -15, as Hearts did.

Ta, can’t see them wanting to start on -15, at the start of the 10 in the year row for Celtic