Fan Rep Interview - Rangers Statement & Loyalty Points

**~~Iggy Pope~~** · 10-01-2018 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by JDHibs

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Wasnt aware of that. I imagine the others on the board have a certain amount of power, although not paid by the club.

So you believe that the fans rep deserve death threats, abuse and what is turning out to be a online hate campaign?

Is this your campaign? Behave.

**JDHibs** · 10-01-2018 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nakedmanoncrack

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Abuse is to be deplored, where would we need to look to see this hate campaign?

Check any thread that mentions the Sevco/titles issue. There have been several over the past few months. Especially around the time when Hibs announced no action would be taken. Check all media outlets.

**Nakedmanoncrack** · 10-01-2018 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by JDHibs

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Check any thread that mentions the Sevco/titles issue. There have been several over the past few months. Especially around the time when Hibs announced no action would be taken. Check all media outlets.

How have I missed this 'shocking abuse' then?

**JDHibs** · 10-01-2018 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Nakedmanoncrack

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How have I missed this 'shocking abuse' then?

Do you live under a rock?

For a start, the fans reps were called "Thick" on the 12th comment on this thread, or did you not read the thread and just cherry pick a comment?

Im not going to hold you hand and walk you through it.

***blackpoolhibs*** · 10-01-2018 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by JDHibs

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Do you live under a rock?

For a start, the fans reps were called "Thick" on the 12th comment on this thread, or did you not read the thread and just cherry pick a comment?

Im not going to hold you hand and walk you through it.

Jesus christ, how will they survive this tirade?

**~~Iggy Pope~~** · 10-01-2018 03:25 PM

I've been called thick and a cock. Sadly never together. Who do I report this to?

***blackpoolhibs*** · 10-01-2018 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Iggy Pope

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I've been called thick and a cock. Sadly never together. Who do I report this to?

**JDHibs** · 10-01-2018 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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Jesus christ, how will they survive this tirade?

It was an example, but whatever floats your boat. Sorry for not believing that abusing fellow fans is acceptable.

We are all here for the same reasons.

Originally Posted by Iggy Pope

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I've been called thick and a cock. Sadly never together. Who do I report this to?

There are some tablets online that may beable to join 'think' and 'cock' together for you?

***blackpoolhibs*** · 10-01-2018 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by JDHibs

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It was an example, but whatever floats your boat. Sorry for not believing that abusing fellow fans is acceptable.

We are all here for the same reasons.

There are some tablets online that may beable to join 'think' and 'cock' together for you?

I agree, abusing fellow fans is not on, but being a football forum, you will get a certain level of words you wont see on a knitting site or car mechanics.

Its football.

**Nakedmanoncrack** · 10-01-2018 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by JDHibs

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Do you live under a rock?

For a start, the fans reps were called "Thick" on the 12th comment on this thread, or did you not read the thread and just cherry pick a comment?

Im not going to hold you hand and walk you through it.

Somebody suggesting someone is 'thick' could possibly be considered slightly more abusive than suggesting they ''live under a rock'' or need ''walked through'' things, or maybe not, however neither would qualify as ''shocking abuse'', ''campaign of hate etc''.

The person who posted that has edited it out anyway, but nice cherry picking.

**JeMeSouviens** · 10-01-2018 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by JDHibs

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Do you live under a rock?

For a start, the fans reps were called "Thick" on the 12th comment on this thread, or did you not read the thread and just cherry pick a comment?

Im not going to hold you hand and walk you through it.

but presumably not "thick skinned"?

***matty_f*** · 10-01-2018 04:41 PM

I think that they said there wasn't a vote on the Rangers issue? Is that right?

**Onion** · 10-01-2018 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by neil7908

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Boards in any business will always do what they THINK is best for the organisation. But boards, even very good ones like ours, make mistakes and misjudge things.

That's where I hope fans reps could offer a counter balance or difference point of view.

Think too many folk are confusing Hibs with a normal business, which its not.

Normal businesses need to monitor and respond to customer views to survive and compete. Many spend £millions to get it. Hibs doesn't. Hibs just need to put a successful team on the park. Get that right and everything else is a minor distraction. Only exception, where I've seen fan views change Board behaviour was the Sevco affair, where there was real threat of fans voting with their feet.

Fan reps can provide a view, but the Board will ultimately do what it thinks is in Hibs best interests.

***bigwheel*** · 10-01-2018 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by matty_f

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I think that they said there wasn't a vote on the Rangers issue? Is that right?

Yes.

Votes at board meetings are, in my experience, rare. Boards seek to agree a single consensus position- that every member supports - in and out of the meeting. It’s not a democratic process , but one of alignment.

**~~Iggy Pope~~** · 10-01-2018 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by JDHibs

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It was an example, but whatever floats your boat. Sorry for not believing that abusing fellow fans is acceptable.

We are all here for the same reasons.

There are some tablets online that may beable to join 'think' and 'cock' together for you?

Hilarious stuff.

***lapsedhibee*** · 10-01-2018 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by JDHibs

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There are some tablets online that may be able to join 'think' and 'cock' together for you?

No, there aren't. It's only wimmin who want to subject men to shocking abuse and hate campaigns that tell them their brains are in their cocks. It's not actually true.

***BSEJVT*** · 10-01-2018 08:00 PM

Car Crash Listening

I have great admiration for Frank & Tracey giving up their time but their position is completely unworkable.

What should happen is a SLO who appears before the board, but doesn't sit on it or is bound by the constraints of being a board member.

That SLO should pick up all the feel good stories they rightfully take great delight in but should also be able to report back on the matters taken to the board and their responses objectively rather that repeating " all is barry" through consensus policies.

The problem is that there is no consensus amongst the support on anything, so on the one hand something is taken to the board and those that raised it are happy their wishes were accommodated. But many others having a whole series of different positions on the issue and are cheesed off at the outcome.

The only real way I can think of agreeing at a consensus of any particular topic is by internet polling where people need to be qualified in some way to obtain the right to vote.

Fans Reps will remain an open sore until the sorry experiment is abandoned.

I don't have the same distrust of the board as many other posters on this thread, but if I wanted to be ultra cynical I might agree that the one thing fans reps have achieved on the board is to divide the focus on Rod Petrie as the devil incarnate.

This btw from someone who would view Rod Petrie's time at Hibs as markedly more positive than negative when examined over the length of his service

**Nakedmanoncrack** · 10-01-2018 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by BSEJVT

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Car Crash Listening

I have great admiration for Frank & Tracey giving up their time but their position is completely unworkable.

What should happen is a SLO who appears before the board, but doesn't sit on it or is bound by the constraints of being a board member.

That SLO should pick up all the feel good stories they rightfully take great delight in but should also be able to report back on the matters taken to the board and their responses objectively rather that repeating " all is barry" through consensus policies.

The problem is that there is no consensus amongst the support on anything, so on the one hand something is taken to the board and those that raised it are happy their wishes were accommodated. But many others having a whole series of different positions on the issue and are cheesed off at the outcome.

The only real way I can think of agreeing at a consensus of any particular topic is by internet polling where people need to be qualified in some way to obtain the right to vote.

Fans Reps will remain an open sore until the sorry experiment is abandoned.

I don't have the same distrust of the board as many other posters on this thread, but if I wanted to be ultra cynical I might agree that the one thing fans reps have achieved on the board is to divide the focus on Rod Petrie as the devil incarnate.

This btw from someone who would view Rod Petrie's time at Hibs as markedly more positive than negative when examined over the length of his service

Some good points, I was very much in favour of the roles being created, and was one of the "few that could be bothered" to vote both times, (including for Frank on both occasions). But it has failed, I'll accept I was naive to believe it wouldn't, truth is that whilst the "reps" sit on the board they cannot be fan reps. They are entirely co-opted, serving the interests of the board rather than the supporters. It really doesn't matter who does the job, it is an impossible one. I still believe there can be a role for elected supporters in pushing our interests & priorities, but this can only be as genuine Representatives - the currently set up doesn't allow this and needs to go.

**Weststandwanab** · 10-01-2018 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by bigwheel

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Yes.

Votes at board meetings are, in my experience, rare. Boards seek to agree a single consensus position- that every member supports - in and out of the meeting. It’s not a democratic process , but one of alignment.

I was 1 director (of 4) in a well known Edinburgh Taxi Company and the only time in 20 years we had a vote was when we received a take over bid.

In simple terms you can have 20 Directors (2 of which represent "fans") and three shareholders and the 3 will always prevail.

As much as a good job the fans reps do they are powerless and therefore rudderless and pointless.

**Alan62** · 10-01-2018 09:40 PM

Surely the 'fans' representatives' are like any elected representative. You don't expect your MP to agree with the views of every one of their constituents or even groups of their constituents. Frank and Tracy stated their cases for becoming members of the board along with a number of others. It was up to the 'fans' to vote for the people that they wanted to represent them within the board.

***wookie70*** · 10-01-2018 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Alan62

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Surely the 'fans' representatives' are like any elected representative. You don't expect your MP to agree with the views of every one of their constituents or even groups of their constituents. Frank and Tracy stated their cases for becoming members of the board along with a number of others. It was up to the 'fans' to vote for the people that they wanted to represent them within the board.

I would expect my MP to vote in line with their party or personal manifestos. I actually think that might not be a bad idea for the next round of Fan Rep votes if there is any. Make the fans reps write an election address and then vote for the one that most represents your views. That way there is a fair chance that the majority fan view will be represented. At the moment it looks like they are trying to say what all the various fans views are which is pretty pointless. You can't represent them all as they have opposing views you need to gauge what the majority view is and run with that imo.

I want the role to be outside the board but with access to the board before any board meetings.

**Alan62** · 10-01-2018 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by wookie70

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I would expect my MP to vote in line with their party or personal manifestos. I actually think that might not be a bad idea for the next round of Fan Rep votes if there is any. Make the fans reps write an election address and then vote for the one that most represents your views. That way there is a fair chance that the majority fan view will be represented. At the moment it looks like they are trying to say what all the various fans views are which is pretty pointless. You can't represent them all as they have opposing views you need to gauge what the majority view is and run with that imo.

I want the role to be outside the board but with access to the board before any board meetings.

Eh, surely that is what they did do? The fans reps all stated their case. They had meetings. People voted. They go with a mandate of sorts from the people that elected them and use their judgement (which they assured people they had) to do the right thing for the fans and the club.

I actually believe there is value in having elected non-executive directors on the board. But it is a position that requires a good skill base as well as a love of the club. I don't know either representative personally so I can't comment on their qualifications for the job.

***wookie70*** · 10-01-2018 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Alan62

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Eh, surely that is what they did do? The fans reps all stated their case. They had meetings. People voted. They go with a mandate of sorts from the people that elected them and use their judgement (which they assured people they had) to do the right thing for the fans and the club.

I actually believe there is value in having elected non-executive directors on the board. But it is a position that requires a good skill base as well as a love of the club. I don't know either representative personally so I can't comment on their qualifications for the job.

From what I remember they read more like

Hibs History
I will be a good Fans Rep because of these various skills etc and
I am going to use social media more and talk to fans at games
Vote Me

I have tried to look on the fishy site for the personal statements but the link bizarrely goes to a page trying to sell Player of the Year tickets. I managed to find Tracey's youtube statement and there is no personal view on anything. I also found one of the unsuccessful candidate's statements and again it was about representing all views.

Listening to Tracey I have no doubt she has done a decent job in following her "Manifesto" The problem is that by representing all views she is almost representing none as she is essentially making an argument against everything she says whilst she says it.

I think what I am saying is I want a candidate who is willing to be partisan to represent the majority of supporter's view whether they feel that way or not. They would also need to find a way to reasonably gauge what that majority view is. I also want one who will report what views they will take to the board before meetings. i realise it is difficult not to toe the party line after the meeting but I want to know they had a dash on behalf of the majority of supporters and I realise I may well not hold that majority view. Like most boards there will be a couple of key members who essentially decide everything and they most certainly won't be the supporter's reps unless the club is fan owned.

***Ozyhibby*** · 11-01-2018 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by BSEJVT

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Car Crash Listening

I have great admiration for Frank & Tracey giving up their time but their position is completely unworkable.

What should happen is a SLO who appears before the board, but doesn't sit on it or is bound by the constraints of being a board member.

That SLO should pick up all the feel good stories they rightfully take great delight in but should also be able to report back on the matters taken to the board and their responses objectively rather that repeating " all is barry" through consensus policies.

The problem is that there is no consensus amongst the support on anything, so on the one hand something is taken to the board and those that raised it are happy their wishes were accommodated. But many others having a whole series of different positions on the issue and are cheesed off at the outcome.

The only real way I can think of agreeing at a consensus of any particular topic is by internet polling where people need to be qualified in some way to obtain the right to vote.

Fans Reps will remain an open sore until the sorry experiment is abandoned.

I don't have the same distrust of the board as many other posters on this thread, but if I wanted to be ultra cynical I might agree that the one thing fans reps have achieved on the board is to divide the focus on Rod Petrie as the devil incarnate.

This btw from someone who would view Rod Petrie's time at Hibs as markedly more positive than negative when examined over the length of his service

That last paragraph amazes me. In the last 21 seasons since Rod joined the board we have consistently had the 5th highest crowds and therefore player budget in the league yet we have only managed a top 5 finish 4 times. That’s 4 times in 21 seasons we performed in line with our budget. It’s hard to see how anyone could give him pass marks for that.
Our average league position since he joined the board is 9th.
If you judge him on the building job alone then the stadium and training centre are great but on the field not so much.
Both cup win were amazing, although other clubs have experienced that as well.

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***BSEJVT*** · 11-01-2018 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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That last paragraph amazes me. In the last 21 seasons since Rod joined the board we have consistently had the 5th highest crowds and therefore player budget in the league yet we have only managed a top 5 finish 4 times. That’s 4 times in 21 seasons we performed in line with our budget. It’s hard to see how anyone could give him pass marks for that.
Our average league position since he joined the board is 9th.
If you judge him on the building job alone then the stadium and training centre are great but on the field not so much.
Both cup win were amazing, although other clubs have experienced that as well.

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Thing is I don't think you can separate the on-field and off-field activities

One clearly impacts upon the others

If you consider the utter shambles we were when STF & Rod took over, to get to where we are is startling

Outwith the ugly sisters no-one is within a million miles of where we are.

My hope and expectation is that we will now kick on and establish ourselves where we ought to be whilst our competitors struggle with the issues we have faced and overcome.

See HMFC for an illustration!

That the time of their running the club has in large part been painful, there is no doubt, but we are only custodians of the club for the next generations.

Famous Five era not withstanding we have actually won 3 trophies in that time which would compare favourably with most periods in our history

I am comfortable that my children and grandchildren will reap the benefits of what we have sown.

Maybe having a bean counter running the club who understood the benefits of having the infrastructure in place to enable the business to perform will be seen as a good thing in the years to come?

One things for sure when we are dead and gone, maybe even before when STF and Rod Petrie bow out, we will be in a far better place than we were when they came onboard.

If that's not success that I don't know what is?

The problem with football discussions about anything is that its emotive and personalises issues on individuals and once folks minds are made up about an individual they seldom change. I am as guilty as anyone so its not a criticism.

Rational thought and thinking through the issues to arrive at a balanced viewpoint seldom occur. Once I had decided James Collins was pish, that was it.

Rod Petrie could become the next Mother Theresa, but many folk would remember only as the man in charge when we were crap for various periods and who should have spent £150k on LG

***Ozyhibby*** · 11-01-2018 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by BSEJVT

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Thing is I don't think you can separate the on-field and off-field activities

One clearly impacts upon the others

If you consider the utter shambles we were when STF & Rod took over, to get to where we are is startling

Outwith the ugly sisters no-one is within a million miles of where we are.

My hope and expectation is that we will now kick on and establish ourselves where we ought to be whilst our competitors struggle with the issues we have faced and overcome.

See HMFC for an illustration!

That the time of their running the club has in large part been painful, there is no doubt, but we are only custodians of the club for the next generations.

Famous Five era not withstanding we have actually won 3 trophies in that time which would compare favourably with most periods in our history

I am comfortable that my children and grandchildren will reap the benefits of what we have sown.

Maybe having a bean counter running the club who understood the benefits of having the infrastructure in place to enable the business to perform will be seen as a good thing in the years to come?

One things for sure when we are dead and gone, maybe even before when STF and Rod Petrie bow out, we will be in a far better place than we were when they came onboard.

If that's not success that I don't know what is?

The problem with football discussions about anything is that its emotive and personalises issues on individuals and once folks minds are made up about an individual they seldom change. I am as guilty as anyone so its not a criticism.

Rational thought and thinking through the issues to arrive at a balanced viewpoint seldom occur. Once I had decided James Collins was pish, that was it.

Rod Petrie could become the next Mother Theresa, but many folk would remember only as the man in charge when we were crap for various periods and who should have spent £150k on LG

I understand that we have built a lot of infrastructure but it did not affect our budget that much. It was always around the 5th biggest in the league. And to only perform in line with that 4 times in 21 years is seriously bad.
It’s not a case of not spending the money, we did. It was how badly the club was being run that we wasted so much of it. He has a disgraceful record and only if the next ten years are a roaring success does he have a half chance of it looking positive.
His record at the SFA is following a similar path, without the good infrastructure.

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***BSEJVT*** · 11-01-2018 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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I understand that we have built a lot of infrastructure but it did not affect our budget that much. It was always around the 5th biggest in the league. And to only perform in line with that 4 times in 21 years is seriously bad.
It’s not a case of not spending the money, we did. It was how badly the club was being run that we wasted so much of it. He has a disgraceful record and only if the next ten years are a roaring success does he have a half chance of it looking positive.
His record at the SFA is following a similar path, without the good infrastructure.

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Of course it effected our budget

We would have spent rocking on £20m

***Ozyhibby*** · 11-01-2018 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by BSEJVT

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Of course it effected our budget

We would have spent rocking on £20m

Of the top of my head £10m came from player sales, £4m still to pay, some of it was forgiven by the bank.
The actual wage budget was always 5th highest yet we rarely were. Maybe if we hadn’t built it then our wage bill could have climbed to 4th highest some years but the evidence shows we would have not spent it well anyway so building was the best thing we could have done with the money while Petrie was there. For that we should be grateful to him.

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***oneone73*** · 11-01-2018 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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Of the top of my head £10m came from player sales, £4m still to pay, some of it was forgiven by the bank.
The actual wage budget was always 5th highest yet we rarely were. Maybe if we hadn’t built it then our wage bill could have climbed to 4th highest some years but the evidence shows we would have not spent it well anyway so building was the best thing we could have done with the money while Petrie was there. For that we should be grateful to him.

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Big wedge from the car park sale, too.

**Nakedmanoncrack** · 11-01-2018 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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I understand that we have built a lot of infrastructure but it did not affect our budget that much. It was always around the 5th biggest in the league. And to only perform in line with that 4 times in 21 years is seriously bad.
It’s not a case of not spending the money, we did. It was how badly the club was being run that we wasted so much of it. He has a disgraceful record and only if the next ten years are a roaring success does he have a half chance of it looking positive.
His record at the SFA is following a similar path, without the good infrastructure.

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