Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Iain G]

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N"........"
........

aughty name for dusky skinned individual.Bit long winded for a dug.

That would have been Richard Todd and not Kenneth More for that to work 😁😉

[ancient hibee]

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That would have been Richard Todd and not Kenneth More for that to work 😁😉

Spot on.Thought I'd got away with it.

[ehf]

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Translated - 'DON'T DO AS WE SAY ? - CIVILISATION PAYS' - You have been warned.

Fascists, basically; they might as well just threaten to invade Poland.

[jacomo]

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Club 1872 statement

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.

They really are the most pompous pr!cks

[The Pointer]

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N"........"
........

aughty name for dusky skinned individual.Bit long winded for a dug.

Guy Gibson's dug. Without scrolling through several other posts.

[Just Alf]

"54 and counting"

It's that comment that will always have me believing that voiding their tainted wins will hurt them the most...

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[Jack Hackett]

Nobody likes them and they don't care...

... aye, right! Just like they don't do walking away.

[Crazyhorse]

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It worked with Henry Fonda in Once Upon A Time In The West, but in the main I agree.

One of the great reveals in movie history.

"What're we gonna do with this one Frank?"

[Crazyhorse]

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"54 and counting"

It's that comment that will always have me believing that voiding their tainted wins will hurt them the most...

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The big problem is that it is down to us fans again. I'm sad to see that our senior management don't have the balls (so far) to state a position on this. Unfortunately unlike The attempt to get newco into the top league the timing is less favourable - SPFL clubs now have the majority of their season ticket money in. The financial leverage fans had last time is missing. It will be down to petitions and protests.

[Ozyhibby]

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The big problem is that it is down to us fans again. I'm sad to see that our senior management don't have the balls (so far) to state a position on this. Unfortunately unlike The attempt to get newco into the top league the timing is less favourable - SPFL clubs now have the majority of their season ticket money in. The financial leverage fans had last time is missing. It will be down to petitions and protests.

Disappointed we have not heard from Hibs in this. With 90% of fans in favour of a new enquiry it would be nice if they could let the fans know the clubs position.


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[Tyler Durden]

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Club 1872 statement

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.

It's hilarious how they always threaten boycotts and economic sanctions as if they were the US government or something. Rather than the sanctimonious jakey knuckle draggers we know so well

[IanM]

Seen this on Twitter..

Class action lawsuit being prepared by Celtic FC PLC shareholders against Rangers IL following tax case ruling.Porto also engaged UK counsel

No substance from the tweet but interesting if true

[CropleyWasGod]

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Seen this on Twitter..

Class action lawsuit being prepared by Celtic FC PLC shareholders against Rangers IL following tax case ruling.Porto also engaged UK counsel

No substance from the tweet but interesting if true

Not sure that a class action against a company in liquidation is allowed. They can make a claim in the liquidation, and if that is rejected they can appeal to the Courts ...as Wavetower have done.



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[Keith_M]

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Seen this on Twitter..

Class action lawsuit being prepared by Celtic FC PLC shareholders against Rangers IL following tax case ruling.Porto also engaged UK counsel

No substance from the tweet but interesting if true

If true, that would be quite funny

[Mr White]

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Disappointed we have not heard from Hibs in this. With 90% of fans in favour of a new enquiry it would be nice if they could let the fans know the clubs position.


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Given the existing tension and potential for trouble at Ibrox on 12th August I'd be very surprised if Hibs pass comment on this. Other than ramping up the security risk to our travelling supporters what would it achieve?

[Ozyhibby]

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Given the existing tension and potential for trouble at Ibrox on 12th August I'd be very surprised if Hibs pass comment on this. Other than ramping up the security risk to our travelling supporters what would it achieve?

We are only going to get another enquiry if the clubs back it. Having a major club like Hibs come out in favour could persuade others it's the right thing to do.
To not do so for the reasons you suggest only sends a message to Sevconians that their violence and intimidation works. We should be a club that stands up for truth and justice, not cower in a corner.

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[Mr White]

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We are only going to get another enquiry if the clubs back it. Having a major club like Hibs come out in favour could persuade others it's the right thing to do.


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I suspect that from the club's point of view it doesn't make any sense to comment. It carries risk with little or no potential benefit.

[Ozyhibby]

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I suspect that from the club's point of view it doesn't make any sense to comment. It carries risk with little or no potential benefit.

Hard to tell given the lack of communication from the club with the fans on this issue.


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[Bostonhibby]

Related to a hun who isn't really that bothered about them these days, he takes his daughters to ER to avoid the "atmosphere" at ibrox.

He made a good point that the authorities will take no real action as riding out the small storm,that will die away, from all the other fans is a less intimidating option than having the polarised Peepul mounting a vicious campaign against them.



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[Skol]

I do find this all laughable, on both sides with all the posturing.

Its clear to me that:

a) They cheated
b) They went out of business/defunct
c) Reformed as a new club but claimed their history while jettisoning debt

I dont need the Legal or SPFL rules to make decisions, I know that their victories were tainted.

Arguably though you could say the same for us when we went out of existence for a few years and we are not the same club that won that first Scottish Cup. Doesnt bother me a jot though. Its the here and now that matters.

[Crazyhorse]

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I do find this all laughable, on both sides with all the posturing.

Its clear to me that:

a) They cheated
b) They went out of business/defunct
c) Reformed as a new club but claimed their history while jettisoning debt

I dont need the Legal or SPFL rules to make decisions, I know that their victories were tainted.

Arguably though you could say the same for us when we went out of existence for a few years and we are not the same club that won that first Scottish Cup. Doesnt bother me a jot though. Its the here and now that matters.

All of that is irrelevant to the issue of a decade of deliberate mid-registration of players. That is why the titles and cups should be stripped.

[HoboHarry]

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I do find this all laughable, on both sides with all the posturing.

Its clear to me that:

a) They cheated
b) They went out of business/defunct
c) Reformed as a new club but claimed their history while jettisoning debt

I dont need the Legal or SPFL rules to make decisions, I know that their victories were tainted.

Arguably though you could say the same for us when we went out of existence for a few years and we are not the same club that won that first Scottish Cup. Doesnt bother me a jot though. Its the here and now that matters.

I am thinking that you have missed the main point entirely.

[jacomo]

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All of that is irrelevant to the issue of a decade of deliberate mid-registration of players. That is why the titles and cups should be stripped.

This is the key issue.

They concealed full details of their player contracts from the authorities. This surely means their players weren't properly registered and therefore ineligible?

Teams have been thrown out of Scottish competitions for fielding one ineligible player. Rangers had a squad of them.

[Hibs Class]

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I am thinking that you have missed the main point entirely.

[Hibs Class]

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This is the key issue.

They concealed full details of their player contracts from the authorities. This surely means their players weren't properly registered and therefore ineligible?

Teams have been thrown out of Scottish competitions for fielding one ineligible player. Rangers had a squad of them.

Thrown out of cup competitions, docked points for single game transgressions and imposed fines which were punitive in comparison to their turnover.

[grunt]

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Teams have been thrown out of Scottish competitions for fielding one ineligible player. Rangers had a squad of them.

Spartans were bumped from a cup competition because a player's papers had only one signature instead of two. I think that was it.

[MichaelTheCelt]

Not sure if this has been posted, won't bother going back to see if it has (my browser is going at a snails pace at the moment)

The Rangers EBT scandal could go international if rumours that Porto are about to take action.
While the SFA and their member clubs take a very laid back approach to rule breaking the Portuguese side are believed to be ready to push for confirmation that they lost out on a place in the last 16 of the 2005/06 Champions League to a team of unregistered players.
Rangers (IL) famously won the 2004/05 SPL title at Easter Road on the final day of the season with every player on an ‘EBT’.
The following season Rangers (IL) pipped Porto to second place in their Champions League group costing the 2004 winners over £15m in prize money.
The tax scam of the Ibrox club failed on two grounds, firstly they didn’t declare details of the payments to the football authorities and secondly the payments were directly related to employment and not discretionary loans as the Supreme Court ruled last week.
If Porto push the matter UEFA will come down in their favour which could turn the spotlight onto the SFA rather than the club that was condemned to death by Her Majesty in June 2012 when she declined a CVA.
Had the SFA informed UEFA of the issue it may have been dealt with leniently but with the evidence out in the open since 2012 every match that Rangers played from the day Ronald de Boer joined the club is open to challenge.

https://videocelts.com/2017/07/blogs...international/

[lord bunberry]

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Not sure if this has been posted, won't bother going back to see if it has (my browser is going at a snails pace at the moment)

The Rangers EBT scandal could go international if rumours that Porto are about to take action.
While the SFA and their member clubs take a very laid back approach to rule breaking the Portuguese side are believed to be ready to push for confirmation that they lost out on a place in the last 16 of the 2005/06 Champions League to a team of unregistered players.
Rangers (IL) famously won the 2004/05 SPL title at Easter Road on the final day of the season with every player on an ‘EBT’.
The following season Rangers (IL) pipped Porto to second place in their Champions League group costing the 2004 winners over £15m in prize money.
The tax scam of the Ibrox club failed on two grounds, firstly they didn’t declare details of the payments to the football authorities and secondly the payments were directly related to employment and not discretionary loans as the Supreme Court ruled last week.
If Porto push the matter UEFA will come down in their favour which could turn the spotlight onto the SFA rather than the club that was condemned to death by Her Majesty in June 2012 when she declined a CVA.
Had the SFA informed UEFA of the issue it may have been dealt with leniently but with the evidence out in the open since 2012 every match that Rangers played from the day Ronald de Boer joined the club is open to challenge.

https://videocelts.com/2017/07/blogs...international/

Watch them suddenly claim to be a different club if that happens.

[Kaiser1962]

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Not sure if this has been posted, won't bother going back to see if it has (my browser is going at a snails pace at the moment)

The Rangers EBT scandal could go international if rumours that Porto are about to take action.
While the SFA and their member clubs take a very laid back approach to rule breaking the Portuguese side are believed to be ready to push for confirmation that they lost out on a place in the last 16 of the 2005/06 Champions League to a team of unregistered players.
Rangers (IL) famously won the 2004/05 SPL title at Easter Road on the final day of the season with every player on an ‘EBT’.
The following season Rangers (IL) pipped Porto to second place in their Champions League group costing the 2004 winners over £15m in prize money.
The tax scam of the Ibrox club failed on two grounds, firstly they didn’t declare details of the payments to the football authorities and secondly the payments were directly related to employment and not discretionary loans as the Supreme Court ruled last week.
If Porto push the matter UEFA will come down in their favour which could turn the spotlight onto the SFA rather than the club that was condemned to death by Her Majesty in June 2012 when she declined a CVA.
Had the SFA informed UEFA of the issue it may have been dealt with leniently but with the evidence out in the open since 2012 every match that Rangers played from the day Ronald de Boer joined the club is open to challenge.

https://videocelts.com/2017/07/blogs...international/

There's also the facts (they are established now) that Rangers were "obstructive, unhelpful and evasive" in the HMRC investigation. The side-letters were "actively concealed" until the City of London Police raid which would suggest they knew exactly what they were doing, if they didnt why conceal?

"Mr Red" was "obscurantist in the way he gave evidence" and tried to influence "Ms Crimson" and possibly "Mr Scarlett" in their giving of evidence.

It would appear that Lord Nimmo Smith's enquiry is fatally flawed and probably should never have been heard until the legality of Rangers actions was established.

There is a "victims" spreadsheet available on google docs (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...BEOwI/htmlview) where someone attempts to put together which teams were affected (in Scotland) because of Rangers financial doping. I know its not really this simple but Hibs may have had two champions league campaigns at a time when we were, ironically, hamstrung for cash.

[Ozyhibby]

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There's also the facts (they are established now) that Rangers were "obstructive, unhelpful and evasive" in the HMRC investigation. The side-letters were "actively concealed" until the City of London Police raid which would suggest they knew exactly what they were doing, if they didnt why conceal?

"Mr Red" was "obscurantist in the way he gave evidence" and tried to influence "Ms Crimson" and possibly "Mr Scarlett" in their giving of evidence.

It would appear that Lord Nimmo Smith's enquiry is fatally flawed and probably should never have been heard until the legality of Rangers actions was established.

There is a "victims" spreadsheet available on google docs (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...BEOwI/htmlview) where someone attempts to put together which teams were affected (in Scotland) because of Rangers financial doping. I know its not really this simple but Hibs may have had two champions league campaigns at a time when we were, ironically, hamstrung for cash.

Absolutely, this was tax evasion not tax avoidance. The LNS enquiry must be set aside, anything else and we are just admitting the game is rigged in favour of Rangers.


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