Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[ballengeich]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Another issue which hasn't yet been raised is the possibility of criminal charges against "somebody". Now that the case has been settled, HMRC's options are clearer. Personally, I think they won't; the case was about establishing a precedent for other similar cases, and criminal action will be less of a priority.

I don't think there could be criminal charges about the basic operation of the scheme, but there have been stories alleging that documents were concealed or even destroyed when HMRC investigators visited the old company. That's where I think charges could be brought.

[Spike Mandela]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Don't believe for one minute that any titles will be stripped. Or that anyone at the SFA will admit they cheated.

The LNS commission reported on sporting advantage on a false premise. At the time of the commission they said that as EBT's were legal no sporting advantage was gained as any club could have used them if they so chose.

Now it has been proven unanimously in the highest court in the land that the use of EBT's were illegal.

Therefore it is clear that Rangers illegal use of EBT's gave them an unfair sporting advantage.

The SFA can't hide behind this discredited LNS judgement any more.

[Elephant Stone]

[.Sean.]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The LNS commission reported on sporting advantage on a false premise. At the time of the commission they said that as EBT's were legal no sporting advantage was gained as any club could have used them if they so chose.

Now it has been proven unanimously in the highest court in the land that the use of EBT's were illegal.

Therefore it is clear that Rangers illegal use of EBT's gave them an unfair sporting advantage.

The SFA can't hide behind this discredited LNS judgement any more.

The SFA simply HAVE to act. I expect Celtic in particular to be putting a bit of pressure on them to appease their support who'll be baying for blood and won't let this rest.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The LNS commission reported on sporting advantage on a false premise. At the time of the commission they said that as EBT's were legal no sporting advantage was gained as any club could have used them if they so chose.

Now it has been proven unanimously in the highest court in the land that the use of EBT's were illegal.

Therefore it is clear that Rangers illegal use of EBT's gave them an unfair sporting advantage.

The SFA can't hide behind this discredited LNS judgement any more.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BSEJVT]

Quite apart from the implications to the now deceased Rangers, I bet there are an awful lot of clubs up and down the country presently ****ting themselves about when HMRC will come knocking on their door and seeking recompense.

The floodgates have been opened and it will be interesting to see which other teams are caught in the coming flood.

[Blaster]

Am I the only one who would rather our club focussed on us and our future? Let others get on with the fight against rangers history

[FilipinoHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Quite apart from the implications to the now deceased Rangers, I bet there are an awful lot of clubs up and down the country presently ****ting themselves about when HMRC will come knocking on their door and seeking recompense.

The floodgates have been opened and it will be interesting to see which other teams are caught in the coming flood.

Yes this very much a test case so they could after other sports clubs. They knew they would not get any money out of the Gers but EPL clubs can pay up without going bust. Probably see a fall in wages in EPL.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Am I the only one who would rather our club focussed on us and our future? Let others get on with the fight against rangers history

That's like being a clean cyclist in the Tour de France and saying I'm just focussing on me.
There is no point competing in a rigged race.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spike Mandela]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Am I the only one who would rather our club focussed on us and our future? Let others get on with the fight against rangers history

I paraphrase.....

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."

[Lang Toun Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The LNS commission reported on sporting advantage on a false premise. At the time of the commission they said that as EBT's were legal no sporting advantage was gained as any club could have used them if they so chose.

Now it has been proven unanimously in the highest court in the land that the use of EBT's were illegal.

Therefore it is clear that Rangers illegal use of EBT's gave them an unfair sporting advantage.

The SFA can't hide behind this discredited LNS judgement any more.

I agree...rule J16 provides for a range of penalties including the withdrawal of titles previously awarded. They can't simply ignore this now because Rangers died 5 years ago. To my mind, Oldco have yet to be fully punished - there was no relegation as Rangers died. The Rangers were (generously and overly favourably in my view) welcomed back into the Scottish League but had to start from the bottom...that's no punishment for oldco. Will it make a difference? Yes, to me as a football fan, the acknowledgment that these titles have been officially withdrawn will make a difference! Supporters of the new club should vent their anger at those who took the decision, I.e. Custodians of the old club, not Scottish football or fans of other clubs....or other religions for that matter but I guess they need a bit of time to vent about last night first!

[Haymaker]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes this very much a test case so they could after other sports clubs. They knew they would not get any money out of the Gers but EPL clubs can pay up without going bust. Probably see a fall in wages in EPL.

EPL clubs cut deals years back.

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Am I the only one who would rather our club focussed on us and our future? Let others get on with the fight against rangers history

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's like being a clean cyclist in the Tour de France and saying I'm just focussing on me.
There is no point competing in a rigged race.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not all that interested in arguing about whether or not they are docked titles of the past.

I'd like some clarification though that the footballing authorities in Scotland have learned from the experience, that the current competition is fair, and that the rules on financial doping are clear, unequivocal and that the punishments for breaking the rules are enforced when clubs break them.

I'm not convinced we're there yet.

The "financial doping era" of Scottish football was a truly shameful period in its history. That doesn't change whether titles are docked or not.

I'd like to think Rod Petrie has better things to do with his time than pursue an agenda that is primarily driven by Celtic fans.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The SFA simply HAVE to act. I expect Celtic in particular to be putting a bit of pressure on them to appease their support who'll be baying for blood and won't let this rest.

I think there is very little appetite among any of the clubs to revisit this, including Celtic. If anything is to be done, the pressure will have to be applied by the fans. Without pressure from top flight fans, the New Huns would've come straight into the SPL in their first season. Without pressure from lower tier fans, the New Huns would've come straight into the first division in their first season.

The SFA/SP(F)L have effectively abandoned all pretence at governance over the Hun fiasco. Any sweeping under rugs or bending rules is considered fair game if it keeps a "Rangers" in the Scottish game.

[FilipinoHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

EPL clubs cut deals years back.

Not according to the Financial Times. Many did not.

[southsider]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Am I the only one who would rather our club focussed on us and our future? Let others get on with the fight against rangers history

There is tax evasion and tax avoidance. One is legal the other not. Directors of a Company can be held legally responsible for the actions of their company. Died or not. Are they due VAT ? VAt Hector takes no prisoners

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

EPL clubs cut deals years back.

This suggests that some did, while others didn't.

https://www.sportinglife.com/footbal...sh-clubs/42677

As ever, we can't know the truth unless the clubs themselves go public, or there is a similar Court case.

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's like being a clean cyclist in the Tour de France and saying I'm just focussing on me.
There is no point competing in a rigged race.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can do both and still have time left over. Three if you count mocking the poppy thieves.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Spike Mandela]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd like to think Rod Petrie has better things to do with his time than pursue an agenda that is primarily driven by Celtic fans.

This can't be dismissed as a Rangers/Celtic thing.

Every Hibs fan and every supporter of every other top flight club put their hard earned cash into a rigged game for years. The authorities are complicit in sweeping this under the carpet.

This is THE biggest scandal in British sport in our lifetimes and people are shrugging their shoulders. I don't get it.

[FilipinoHibs]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/englands-top-clubs-could-face-9995113

[Since90+2]

Due to the amount of money and the timescale involved I cant see how the governing bodies in this country cannot act.

[JeMeSouviens]

Alex Thomson tweets:

alex thomson‏Verified account
@alextomo


The governance of Scottish football under Regan and Doncaster is totally exposed by the Supreme Court. The position of both is untenable.
2:01 AM - 5 Jul 2017

[JeMeSouviens]

our old chum RTC resurfaced on twitter.


https://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase/s...41898585583616

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This can't be dismissed as a Rangers/Celtic thing.

Every Hibs fan and every supporter of every other top flight club put their hard earned cash into a rigged game for years. The authorities are complicit in sweeping this under the carpet.

This is THE biggest scandal in British sport in our lifetimes and people are shrugging their shoulders. I don't get it.

Yep, fair enough. I do pretty much agree.

I'm not too impressed that I bought season tickets for a rigged competition for a number of years.

The key part of the phrase though was "primarily by Celtic fans".

I think most fans of most clubs would want to see Rangers docked titles, partly for decent reasons (sporting integrity) and partly to see the boot put into a widely unpopular club.

But it's different from the Celtic angle. They'll be unanimous that titles should be docked and are reaching a foaming-mouthed frenzy over the whole thing.

If Petrie does pursue a particular line, I hope that it is partly as a result of gauging opinion amongst the Hibs support but mainly for what he feels is in the best interests of the Scottish game.

FWIW I've heard that Petrie was very forceful in the past in relation to seeing Rangers/Sevco/whoever being punished. He pushed for titles to be stripped, before the notorious "5 way agreement" was reached, an agreement that Petrie felt was soft on Rangers.

[KWJ]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This can't be dismissed as a Rangers/Celtic thing.

Every Hibs fan and every supporter of every other top flight club put their hard earned cash into a rigged game for years. The authorities are complicit in sweeping this under the carpet.

This is THE biggest scandal in British sport in our lifetimes and people are shrugging their shoulders. I don't get it.

I tend to agree.

Would any lawyer entertain a fan's claim that he was sold thousands of pounds worth of tickets under false pretenses? Probably not but just the challenge could cause a stir.

Maybe we'll end up down the salary cap path at some point.

I don't see either happening but this is a huge thing.

[Sioux]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The LNS commission reported on sporting advantage on a false premise. At the time of the commission they said that as EBT's were legal no sporting advantage was gained as any club could have used them if they so chose.

Now it has been proven unanimously in the highest court in the land that the use of EBT's were illegal.

Therefore it is clear that Rangers illegal use of EBT's gave them an unfair sporting advantage.

The SFA can't hide behind this discredited LNS judgement any more.

Not quite correct.

Lord Hodge said in today's judgement;

"The legislative code for the taxation of income has developed over time to reflect changing governmental policies in relation to taxation, to remove loopholes in the tax regime and to respond to the behaviour of taxpayers. Such responses include the enactment of provisions to nullify the effects of otherwise successful tax avoidance schemes (or schemes which were apparently successful pending a definitive judicial determination)."

What this means is that when the EBTs were being used they were regarded by the users as successful avoidance schemes, or at least were not unsuccessful. HMRC had the opposing view. Until today, the definitive judicial determination is that the scheme failed to have the tax effect that the promoters designed for. Until today, there was no authority for saying what was done in 2001 to 2009 was anything other than attempt at effective tax planning. The judicial process has now decided that the steps taken in the avoidance scheme were not sufficient to have the effect for income tax purposes that they were intended to have.

The LNS 'judgement' was along the lines I've mentioned here, I think. No one could say with any legal authority, at the relevant time, that what the huns did was wrong.

[lord bunberry]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Alex Thomson tweets:

It's been untenable for a long time and it hasn't made a difference.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This can't be dismissed as a Rangers/Celtic thing.

Every Hibs fan and every supporter of every other top flight club put their hard earned cash into a rigged game for years. The authorities are complicit in sweeping this under the carpet.

This is THE biggest scandal in British sport in our lifetimes and people are shrugging their shoulders. I don't get it.

It's definitely not a Rangers/Celtic thing. I was at Easter road and had to watch as they celebrated on our pitch winning a title in the last minute of the game when every single player and their whole management team was being paid illegally through EBTs. You can't be a sports fan and just let that stand.
Rules are there for a reason and they have to be applied to all clubs.
The rules state that if a player is not registered properly then the game is forfeited 3-0. This has to be applied to Rangers just the same as its applied to Spartans when they were kicked out the Scottish cup for missing a signature.
If we are saying that Rangers have different rules then why bother going to watch football at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Rod Petrie is Chairman of the SFA board.

We are in a unique position of being able to demand of him just what are the SFA going to do about this confirmed cheating within the Scottish game for so many years or will he be complicit in the whitewash.

Petrie will do nothing. He'll sit quietly in the background, with the odd sound bite to appease us but making sure he doesn't rock the SFA boat so as to threaten his position on the jobs for the boys gravy train that is the SFA.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Petrie will do nothing. He'll sit quietly in the background, with the odd sound bite to appease us but making sure he doesn't rock the SFA boat so as to threaten his position on the jobs for the boys gravy train that is the SFA.

That's my fear.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk