(Soon to be) Former President Donald Trump

[snooky]

Just read through one of those frustrating newsbites links at the bottom of various websites.
The one I read was for which personality voted for Trump or Clinton.
I couldn't help but smile at this one ....

Stacey Dash – Trump
Dash has long been a vocal conservative. The Clueless star is a frequent Fox News guest and has indicated her support of Trump’s campaign.

Oh the irony

[The Green Goblin]

Two fascinating, essential and terrifying reads:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/big...a-brexit-trump


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/tr...1d5#.pvebza1ae

[steakbake]

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Two fascinating, essential and terrifying reads:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/big...a-brexit-trump


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/tr...1d5#.pvebza1ae

Ha! Found my way to both of these articles earlier in the day. The one about the coup - it's possible.

The big data one was something covered in an Adam Curtis documentary - Hypernormalisation.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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I didn't particularly want Trump (or Brexit) and I don't particularly like Trump as a person. However, I don't think diminishing him adds any clarity to the current situation.

I can see some positives from his approach which is very direct and gets results far more quickly than the naval staring, risk averse, self-serving approach which characterises the public sector in the west. I find that refreshing and I hope it shakes up the public sector generally.

I also think replacing out current free trade arrangements with the EU by a free trade arrangement with the US could work well and be really interesting for us as a country. I would hope that it opens up a greater exchange between us.

Neither of last years election/referendum result where what I would have chosen but we are where we are and that's democracy but I think we owe it to ourselves to make it work for our benefit as best we can and, if we do that right they may turn out for the best after all. Maybe.

Well said mate, pretty much where i am too.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...urkeys-erdogan

"Fighter jets and predator drones"

Jesus wept.

Is there literally nothing that will pierce the armour of self-delusion? Arming dictators, flattering extremists - being outside the EU will be whoring ourselves to anyone that wants to buy the tools for killing.

I would imagine defense qould be excluded from EU wide deals.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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100% agree with the last sentence. Beyond disgusting.

I get that there are plenty who support nationalism here, and i could potentially be one.

But dont pretend the SNP are committed ideological purists.

They will, and indeed often have, pursued all kinds of weird and wonderful policies, and shed many principle in pursuit of their goal.

The FM is apparently considering doing do again
Mayne being ideologically commited to the 'european project' isnt working out, amd EU membership isnt that important after all eh?

[steakbake]

OK, but just be mindful that this 'very direct approach which gets results' can very quickly unravel. Such as essentially supplanting senior, experienced members of the intelligence and defence organisations with his own adviser - who happens to be a renowned anti-semite and racialist with absolutely no experience in defence, intelligence or civil protection. Or instructing departments of the executive to ignore judicial decisions.

There is also a constitution - something we do not have here, unless you count the magna carta (which as an aside, tells us that we must let foreign merchants pass freely throughout England) - which is there to protect the people's rights. You may think this is some kind of liberal quagmire but you know, what luck - you've not needed to rely on constitutional protections or in the UK case, on any articles in the Human Rights Act. This situation may very well be unconstitutional. You will miss them when they are gone.

If you're happy to stick up for that and cheer it while the going is good, then fair play to you - you must really, really trust human nature on the basis of absolutely no historical evidence that it is essentially benign.

[hibsbollah]

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Two fascinating, essential and terrifying reads:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/big...a-brexit-trump


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/tr...1d5#.pvebza1ae

I knew about the first one.
The second one? Terrifyingly plausible.

[At The Edge]

Bannon is the one to watch, very much got the ear of Trump to carry out his 'alt' right wing odious ideas

[ronaldo7]

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I get that there are plenty who support nationalism here, and i could potentially be one.

But dont pretend the SNP are committed ideological purists.

They will, and indeed often have, pursued all kinds of weird and wonderful policies, and shed many principle in pursuit of their goal.

The FM is apparently considering doing do again
Mayne being ideologically commited to the 'european project' isnt working out, amd EU membership isnt that important after all eh?

You get them all here. Scottish Nationalists, British Nationalists, Welsh Nationalists, Irish, French, English, and German.

[steakbake]

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Bannon is the one to watch, very much got the ear of Trump to carry out his 'alt' right wing odious ideas

And now sits on national intelligence committees. Very very dangerous man.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

It's difficult to know where to start with Trump. First of all, I wouldn't have voted for him, as saying so seems obligatory whenever his name is mentioned in this country.

However, I have found the coverage of his policies extremely biased and poorly presented. This evening, Sky News did a 15min article on his 'immigration ban' without actually saying what it was (refugees, US citizens, tourists, people with visas, all the above?) and instead focussed on the protests and interviews with various people who were appalled by him for various reasons. I have since read what his policy is and disapprove, but the media (not just Sky) seem incapable of focusing on the facts of the story and seem to think they can boost their ratings by repeating how horrible Trump is.

Instead of the lazy digs at him, it would be more constructive and better journalism to focus on what his policies actually are, why he ended up winning the election (the media here come across as in awe of Obama and afraid to criticise) and the likely impact of the policies. If they tell the audience the facts then we can make our own minds up.

As for Trump himself, part of me thinks at least he's actually doing what he said he would, even although I expect some of his policies and language will do more harm than good. Although it gets less coverage (because it's less decisive and the media like to stir), I'm particularly worried about his approach towards the environment as some of his changes could be irreversible and set the whole process even further behind.

[Pretty Boy]

Attorney General sacked for 'betraying' the Department of Justice.

That's the kind of rhetoric we mock North Korea for.

[hibsbollah]

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Attorney General sacked for 'betraying' the Department of Justice.

That's the kind of rhetoric we mock North Korea for.

The BBC North America Editor Tony Zurcher :

'Acting Attorney General Sally Yates essentially forced Mr Trump's hand when she ordered justice department lawyers not to defend the president's recent immigration order in court.
Mr Trump could not abide such defiance from an Obama Administration holdover due for replacement soon anyway'.

...which misses the point a bit. Was someone not saying earlier on this thread about the separation of legislative executive and judicial branches of government? Untangling that system, if you want to, just requires the necessary political will.

[GreenLake]

A bit of irony about Trump's wall

https://mishtalk.com/2017/01/30/flas...sh-signs-bill/

[Hibbyradge]

[steakbake]

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The BBC North America Editor Tony Zurcher :

'Acting Attorney General Sally Yates essentially forced Mr Trump's hand when she ordered justice department lawyers not to defend the president's recent immigration order in court.
Mr Trump could not abide such defiance from an Obama Administration holdover due for replacement soon anyway'.

...which misses the point a bit. Was someone not saying earlier on this thread about the separation of legislative executive and judicial branches of government? Untangling that system, if you want to, just requires the necessary political will.

Never mind all the due process/whether things are constitutional or legal or not. Some folks are just impressed you can go in and unpick over a century of constitutional protections just by ignoring they exist or by sacking the people who are there to defend the commonly agreed rules of the game.

It's fantastic to see apparently, all of those checks and balances in the system designed to prevent tyranny and dictatorial rule being swept away by Trump playing glove-puppet to known anti-semite and white supremacist Bannon.

There must be people in the GOP starting to wonder where this will end up. If there's not, there really should be.

[Future17]

If the comments Trump reportedly made during/following his phone call with Malcolm Turnbull, about the Australia/USA immigration deal and the Boston bombers, are true, then those comments are simply racist.

[The Green Goblin]

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver returns tonight. Often an interesting take on things, and an entertaining view, so I welcome its return.

[CropleyWasGod]

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If the comments Trump reportedly made during/following his phone call with Malcolm Turnbull, about the Australia/USA immigration deal and the Boston bombers, are true, then those comments are simply racist.

They also call into question the propaganda that he's good at handling people down-under.

[steakbake]

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Last Week Tonight with John Oliver returns tonight. Often an interesting take on things, and an entertaining view, so I welcome its return.

Expect enjoyable Trump tweeting later about it being unfunny, biased and one-sided!

[GreenLake]

[stoneyburn hibs]

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Last Week Tonight with John Oliver returns tonight. Often an interesting take on things, and an entertaining view, so I welcome its return.

I'd never heard of John Oliver until I watched Last Week Tonight, he's very good.

[johnbc70]

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If the comments Trump reportedly made during/following his phone call with Malcolm Turnbull, about the Australia/USA immigration deal and the Boston bombers, are true, then those comments are simply racist.

Notice how people pick up on Trumps comments but happily ignore Australia's stance on refusing refugees and keeping them on islands in the Pacific Ocean!

Where are the marches and petitions demanding this changes?

[hibsbollah]

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Never mind all the due process/whether things are constitutional or legal or not. Some folks are just impressed you can go in and unpick over a century of constitutional protections just by ignoring they exist or by sacking the people who are there to defend the commonly agreed rules of the game.

It's fantastic to see apparently, all of those checks and balances in the system designed to prevent tyranny and dictatorial rule being swept away by Trump playing glove-puppet to known anti-semite and white supremacist Bannon.

There must be people in the GOP starting to wonder where this will end up. If there's not, there really should be.

The GOP will be trying to tame the beast they created for the next four years. It's not just the Democrats who hate Trumps vision. And if he does turn into a one term oddity, or even gets impeached before seeing out his term, the US political establishment will remember how subservient May was. There will be even less give and take and the 'special relationship' will mean even less to them. Just bad politics all round.

[steakbake]

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Notice how people pick up on Trumps comments but happily ignore Australia's stance on refusing refugees and keeping them on islands in the Pacific Ocean!

Where are the marches and petitions demanding this changes?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-08/let-them-stay-protests-against-return-of-asylum-seekers-to-nauru/7150462

https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/11895

https://www.change.org/p/the-un-stop-the-inhumane-treatment-of-asylum-seekers-sanction-the-australian-government-for-breaching-international-law

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/dec/24/petition-calls-for-australia-to-ratify-un-protocol-against-torture-in-detention

[johnbc70]

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-08/let-them-stay-protests-against-return-of-asylum-seekers-to-nauru/7150462

https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/11895

https://www.change.org/p/the-un-stop...ernational-law

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...e-in-detention

The petition has just over 5,000 signatories and is now 'closed' so has had no effect or impact. Point was more that people are quick to jump on anything Trump says and it has become the fashionable thing in the media now to focus on what he says rather than dig deeper at the actual story.

Similarly where are the marches and petitions about Saudi Arabia's treatment of women and their human rights record - 100,000 women march in London against Trump, wonder how many would turn up at a march against the Saudi Government.

[steakbake]

Fair enough, John. You probably think Trump is hard done by, misunderstood and it is all total hypocrisy. Where were people when... I've been reading that kind of viewpoint, though it usually comes with a Pepe the Frog emoticon. Or weirder still, is advanced by people on the left.

It's a kind of two wrongs don't make a right. US foreign policy has been a complete disaster for many, many years - I've been out and protested it a few times: Iraq War and the bombing of Serbia. I haven't been out protesting at every single occurrence of bad stuff in the world. But I will protest Trump because, as I say, he is a complete loose cannon who actively courts and engages with white supremacists and anti-semites, like Steve Bannon - his chief adviser and now with a seat on the US National Security Council.

I'll not convince you otherwise and you won't convince me.

[johnbc70]

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Fair enough, John. You probably think Trump is hard done by, misunderstood and it is all total hypocrisy. Where were people when... I've been reading that kind of viewpoint, though it usually comes with a Pepe the Frog emoticon. Or weirder still, is advanced by people on the left.

It's a kind of two wrongs don't make a right. US foreign policy has been a complete disaster for many, many years - I've been out and protested it a few times: Iraq War and the bombing of Serbia. I haven't been out protesting at every single occurrence of bad stuff in the world. But I will protest Trump because, as I say, he is a complete loose cannon who actively courts and engages with white supremacists and anti-semites, like Steve Bannon - his chief adviser and now with a seat on the US National Security Council.

I'll not convince you otherwise and you won't convince me.

I don't think he is hard done by and he deserves everything he gets. Just it seems like the fashionable thing at the moment to criticise everything he is doing when there is a lot worse going on. I appreciate we can't march and protest against everything though.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I don't think he is hard done by and he deserves everything he gets. Just it seems like the fashionable thing at the moment to criticise everything he is doing when there is a lot worse going on. I appreciate we can't march and protest against everything though.

Part of the issue is that Australian immigration policy, and Saudi treatment of women, don't have a direct impact on our lives. Trump's decisions, though, have that potential.

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