Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Stonewall]

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I do think we are seeing a real shift in voting intensions, in the west of Scotland at least. The Tories will be picking up more and more votes from working class protestants (RFC fans) with each passing election. In the same way that UKIP will be hoovering up votes in the North of England and the rust belt voters in the US shifted to Trump and the Republican party.
How this all plays out I'm not sure but there are hardcore huns who would love a Northern Ireland situation over here where every aspect of life is split one way or the other.
At the moment Ruth Davidson is loving it and riding the waves but the Conservative party will shift from being the party of moderate, middle class suburban Scots to being the party of the bigoted dregs of our society, dole scroungers and total thickos.

I really can't agree with you. Remember that within living memory, the Conservatives were able to secure a majority of votes in Scotland, so there must have been a broad based support. As a 'middle class suburban' Scot I know of very few who now vote Tory.

I think it more likely that there was always a residue of natural moderate Tory voters who were lost due a dislike of Thatcher or who simply saw no point in voting Conservative in a first past the post voting system. Perhaps they are returning to the fold, others may have voted tactically for the Tories as they were looking for the option most likely to hold the SNP to account by asking pertinent questions in parliament.

Especially in the west there was traditionally a strong working class (perhaps upper working class vote). This vote eroded over the years and was effectively killed off by Thatcher. Again, maybe some are going back to their roots.

I'm not sure that the bigoted dregs of our society as characterised by you would see it in their interests to vote Tory, rather than UKIP or SNP or more likely not at all.

[Keith_M]

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http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/artic...de-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I really can't agree with you. Remember that within living memory, the Conservatives were able to secure a majority of votes in Scotland, so there must have been a broad based support. As a 'middle class suburban' Scot I know of very few who now vote Tory.

I think it more likely that there was always a residue of natural moderate Tory voters who were lost due a dislike of Thatcher or who simply saw no point in voting Conservative in a first past the post voting system. Perhaps they are returning to the fold, others may have voted tactically for the Tories as they were looking for the option most likely to hold the SNP to account by asking pertinent questions in parliament.

Especially in the west there was traditionally a strong working class (perhaps upper working class vote). This vote eroded over the years and was effectively killed off by Thatcher. Again, maybe some are going back to their roots.

I'm not sure that the bigoted dregs of our society as characterised by you would see it in their interests to vote Tory, rather than UKIP or SNP or more likely not at all.

Actually that was the Scottish Unionist Party, which took the Conservative whip in parliament. It later merged with the rUK Tories and has been losing votes ever since. The Union referred to in its title was that between Ireland and GB rather than Scotland and England and a significant part of its appeal was to the protestant working class. "Playing the Orange card" as it were.

The current Scottish Tory leadership seem to be flirting with this idea again, see tweets from Adam Tomkins and Murdo Fraser referencing "watp" and "the Queen's XI".

[Keith_M]

Ah, politics and religion, dontcha just love those two subjects for an argument?

[Ozyhibby]

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Actually that was the Scottish Unionist Party, which took the Conservative whip in parliament. It later merged with the rUK Tories and has been losing votes ever since. The Union referred to in its title was that between Ireland and GB rather than Scotland and England and a significant part of its appeal was to the protestant working class. "Playing the Orange card" as it were.

The current Scottish Tory leadership seem to be flirting with this idea again, see tweets from Adam Tomkins and Murdo Fraser referencing "watp" and "the Queen's XI".

If they are then it's not a good strategy. The number of people identifying themselves with any religion is plummeting.
The Tories are identifying themselves with the union between Scotland and England because that's where their voters are and also where half the population is.
It knows Labour and the lib dems are uncomfortable on this ground so it sees an opportunity. So far it has been successful. It's managing to do this without having any policy positions at all except oppose the SNP and independence. Ruth Davidson is an empty head. When was the last time you saw her put forward an idea or policy proposal. She merely mimics policy from London and is chameleon like when it changes. Her main contribution is a reasonable wit and a willingness to do jolly fat lady photo shoots.
Murdo Fraser is a dick.


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[Bostonhibby]

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Ah, politics and religion, dontcha just love those two subjects for an argument?

agree. I thought the thread had taken a much more sensible turn recently when we were debating the apparent discovery of a previously unheard of and ludicrously unlikely new indigenous people being discovered in a skip somewhere between Belfast and govan?

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[northstandhibby]

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Actually that was the Scottish Unionist Party, which took the Conservative whip in parliament. It later merged with the rUK Tories and has been losing votes ever since. The Union referred to in its title was that between Ireland and GB rather than Scotland and England and a significant part of its appeal was to the protestant working class. "Playing the Orange card" as it were.

The current Scottish Tory leadership seem to be flirting with this idea again, see tweets from Adam Tomkins and Murdo Fraser referencing "watp" and "the Queen's XI".

It's this kind of horrible attitude from politicians and in fact across the wider spectrum of those in positions of Authority is why the Huns are allowed to actively en masse sing vile sectarian hatred with nothing done about it.

Only in Scotland!!!

Mon the Cabbage

[Keith_M]

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agree. I thought the thread had taken a much more sensible turn recently when we were debating the apparent discovery of a previously unheard of and ludicrously unlikely new indigenous people being discovered in a skip somewhere between Belfast and govan?

The Wee Arra' Peepul?

[Dashing Bob S]

Typical dumb Huns. Complain about being dehumanised while constantly referring to yourselves as 'Bears'.

[JeMeSouviens]

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If they are then it's not a good strategy. The number of people identifying themselves with any religion is plummeting.
The Tories are identifying themselves with the union between Scotland and England because that's where their voters are and also where half the population is.
It knows Labour and the lib dems are uncomfortable on this ground so it sees an opportunity. So far it has been successful. It's managing to do this without having any policy positions at all except oppose the SNP and independence. Ruth Davidson is an empty head. When was the last time you saw her put forward an idea or policy proposal. She merely mimics policy from London and is chameleon like when it changes. Her main contribution is a reasonable wit and a willingness to do jolly fat lady photo shoots.
Murdo Fraser is a dick.


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True, but successful political parties are all about building (internal) coalitions. If the Tories can keep the Morningside blue rinsers on board while simultaneously attracting what's left of the Brigton Loyal then in pure vote building terms it's a viable strategy. They were so far out of things that being the champions of a bygone (and Protestant) Britain has thrown them a bit of a lifeline, albeit a (hopefully) terminally declining one in demographic terms.

Agree re RD and MF.

[BH Hibs]

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Thank the many SNP supporters for deciding to dismiss everybody who disagrees with them as a Unionist or a Yoon. It was dangerous language to use and many of us said so during the referundum.

Really?

[Mr White]

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agree. I thought the thread had taken a much more sensible turn recently when we were debating the apparent discovery of a previously unheard of and ludicrously unlikely new indigenous people being discovered in a skip somewhere between Belfast and govan?

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Oy that's no way to talk about Stenaline's Superfast Irish Sea ferry! Yes it's quite rusty and it's often full of rubbish but normal people sometimes use the service too you know

[jgl07]

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True, but successful political parties are all about building (internal) coalitions. If the Tories can keep the Morningside blue rinsers on board while simultaneously attracting what's left of the Brigton Loyal then in pure vote building terms it's a viable strategy. They were so far out of things that being the champions of a bygone (and Protestant) Britain has thrown them a bit of a lifeline, albeit a (hopefully) terminally declining one in demographic terms.

The Morningside ladies have virtually died off.

I accidentally wondered into a Malcolm Rifkind election meeting at the Braids in 1992 (I was looking for another meeting in the same venue) and the meeting was full of old ladies, most of whom looked over 90. They have been replaced by younger professional families working for the NHS and the Universities.

Any Conservative recovery is down to unwinding of tactical votes that were cast by Tory supporters for the SNP or Lib Dems to keep Labour out. They feel that they can sefely vote Tory now since Labour collapsed.

There may be some anti-SNP tactical voting emerging that certainly helped Ruth Davidson in Edinburgh Central (and also helped Labour in South and the Lib Dems in West).

[Leithwalk]

Might be worth recalling that the Scottish Tories got 22% in the 2016 Holyrood elections (constituency vote). In the 2015 general election they got 14.9%. In Thatcher's last general election - 1987 - they got 24%. A bit more resurging to do while Labour's vote collapses to the SNP. The Tories are bouncing back a bit, but Maggie still did better than Ruth

[Keith_M]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about The Rangers?

[Bostonhibby]

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I thought this thread was supposed to be about The Rangers?

Problem is that you're seemingly victimizing an indigenous group now so probably better to launch an attack on the Tories instead- A proper disappearing minority group in Scotland, the blue rinsed species anyway.

Save the blue rinsed Tories.

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[Moulin Yarns]

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I thought this thread was supposed to be about The Rangers?

Murdo Fraser (one of my representatives at Holyrood) is also "one of the people" as evidenced in several tweets.

[Liberal Hibby]

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Typical dumb Huns. Complain about being dehumanised while constantly referring to yourselves as 'Bears'.

Top, top response.

[jacomo]

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http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/artic...de-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.

Bear? Pathetic wee lamb, more like.

Written by a socially dysfunctional teenager, surely?

[johnbc70]

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Murdo Fraser (one of my representatives at Holyrood) is also "one of the people" as evidenced in several tweets.

He was the MSP who called for HMRC to basically write off the Old Rangers debt so they would not be liquidated.

It made me so mad at the time that I wrote to Ruth Davidson about his conduct as an elected official and encouraging the write off of millions of pounds of money owing to taxpayers!

[Bostonhibby]

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He was the MSP who called for HMRC to basically write off the Old Rangers debt so they would not be liquidated.

It made me so mad at the time that I wrote to Ruth Davidson about his conduct as an elected official and encouraging the write off of millions of pounds of money owing to taxpayers!

Pay attention people. You get what you vote for or sometimes what you don't vote against.

Here's a walloper worth jettisoning?

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[JeMeSouviens]

New club in Bradford, load of bull in Glasgow.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-club-rfl-bids

[ehf]

According to the Scotsman, Sevco are hoping to sign Saido Berahino from West Brom for £500k.

[Ozyhibby]

I see Walter is in the papers this morning saying Sevco should borrow and spend in order to compete with Celtic.

Sevco turnover is expected to be about £20m this year while Celtic's is expected to be around £65m. And that's before Celtic sell Dembele.
That's a lot of borrowing Walter.
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[Callum_62]

Stoke make a bid in the region of £20 million for Berahino

Real money

[greenginger]

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I see Walter is in the papers this morning saying Sevco should borrow and spend in order to compete with Celtic.

Sevco turnover is expected to be about £20m this year while Celtic's is expected to be around £65m. And that's before Celtic sell Dembele.
That's a lot of borrowing Walter.
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And does Walter ( Mitty ) suggest where the money might be borrowed from and a method of repayment.

[Smartie]

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I see Walter is in the papers this morning saying Sevco should borrow and spend in order to compete with Celtic.

Sevco turnover is expected to be about £20m this year while Celtic's is expected to be around £65m. And that's before Celtic sell Dembele.
That's a lot of borrowing Walter.
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Would Walter lend them money?

There is a problem with his plan.

[Bostonhibby]

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Stoke make a bid in the region of £20 million for Berahino

Real money

Aye but maybe fast track entry into the lodge of his choice and the chance to play for a club with the rangers "traditions" will be more important to the player.

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[Ozyhibby]

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And does Walter ( Mitty ) suggest where the money might be borrowed from and a method of repayment.

What's this repayment thing you speak of?


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[BH Hibs]

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According to the Scotsman, Sevco are hoping to sign Saido Berahino from West Brom for £500k.

Thats been lifted straight from a facebook routers page. A guy I know showed me that in the pub on Sunday, nearly spat my pint out.