Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

***CropleyWasGod*** · 29-10-2016 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Famous Fiver

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I have not read the 1178 pages on this thread but did I read somewhere that the need an additional £8 Million over in the next year just to keep the lights on?

Possibly, but it would be speculation rather than any informed opinion. :)

The accounts say they need 3.75m to get to the end of the season. They've had 2.9m of that in the past few weeks.

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**The Green Goblin** · 29-10-2016 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Famous Fiver

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I have not read the 1178 pages on this thread but did I read somewhere that the need an additional £8 Million over in the next year just to keep the lights on?

I think it's on page 742...

**~~northstandhibby~~** · 29-10-2016 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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Possibly, but it would be speculation rather than any informed opinion. :)

The accounts say they need 3.75m to get to the end of the season. They've had 2.9m of that in the past few weeks.

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Nearly 4 million pound to keep the lights on.

These benefactors will have to dig deep once again.

GGTTH

***lapsedhibee*** · 30-10-2016 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Famous Fiver

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did I read somewhere that the need an additional £8 Million over in the next year just to keep the lights on?

Originally Posted by Sham69

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Nearly 4 million pound to keep the lights on.

LED lamps?

***Keith_M*** · 30-10-2016 07:14 AM

It seems like every six months the directors loan money to the club/company just to keep going until the end of the season.

At the beginning of this season, the amount still owed to those 'benefactors' had reached 10 million, which would have increased to 13 million with October's loan.

Does loaning the club money count as part of King's fabled 50 million investment, and has there been any info released on how and when they plan to pay that money back?

***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-10-2016 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Keekaboo

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It seems like every six months the directors loan money to the club/company just to keep going until the end of the season.

At the beginning of this season, the amount still owed to those 'benefactors' had reached 10 million, which would have increased to 13 million with October's loan.

Does loaning the club money count as part of King's fabled 50 million investment, and has there been any info released on how and when they plan to pay that money back?

Of the 10m, 3.5 is repayable on demand, with the rest due in December 17. No idea about the new 2.9m.

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**Ronniekirk** · 30-10-2016 07:33 AM

They are now up to second in the leaugue If thats where they finish thats nearly a million quid they get Cup runs and half season tickets too
What is the up to date position re Club Merchandise Strips etc is Ashley still taking the Lions Share from this
I dont think they will have expected to finish 2nd Aberdeen really should have that in the bag given they have a settled. Squad

**Since90+2** · 30-10-2016 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

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They are now up to second in the leaugue If thats where they finish thats nearly a million quid they get Cup runs and half season tickets too
What is the up to date position re Club Merchandise Strips etc is Ashley still taking the Lions Share from this
I dont think they will have expected to finish 2nd Aberdeen really should have that in the bag given they have a settled. Squad

Rangers wage budget will be about 5 times that of Aberdeen. They should be finishing second.

**Ronniekirk** · 30-10-2016 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Since90+2

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Rangers wage budget will be about 5 times that of Aberdeen. They should be finishing second.

But if they play to thier potential Aberdeen are the better Team imo They just seem to switch off and loose games they shouldnt

**magpie1892** · 30-10-2016 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

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They are now up to second in the leaugue If thats where they finish thats nearly a million quid they get Cup runs and half season tickets too
What is the up to date position re Club Merchandise Strips etc is Ashley still taking the Lions Share from this
I dont think they will have expected to finish 2nd Aberdeen really should have that in the bag given they have a settled. Squad

Rangers Retail Limited is a company registered in England and majority owned by Ashley. Rangers are tied into a deal with RRL for the next six years, a deal which gives sevco about 4p in the pound. It's a great piece of business by Ashley and there's nothing the hun can do about it, despite TLK's fighting talk. If you recall, King said in August that the hun were looking to launch their own kit. I wonder how that project is going?

I think you're being a bit premature to think that the hun will necessarily finish as runners up. Aberdeen are a better side with better players and a better manager. The hun signed 11 players in the summer, about 2-3 of that 11 are getting a regular game, and the wages of a number of the rest - Barton, Krancjar, Garner, Senderdross, etc. add up to quite a tidy sum.

It's all well and good saying that because the huns' wage bill is five times that of AFC they should be finishing second but that's a non-sequitur if they're literally throwing this money away on dross they don't/can't play.

**~~HappyHanlon~~** · 30-10-2016 08:27 AM

**** the huns.

***grunt*** · 30-10-2016 08:51 AM

Phil M has a column where he's got some accountant type chap to look at RIFC accounts:

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rif...016/#more-8214

***greenginger*** · 30-10-2016 09:11 AM

Phil has posted a full copy of their accounts and the first bit I can't square is their gate receipts.

They went up to £ 17.3 million , an increase of £ 5.7 million.

In the Key Performance measures, season tickets sales increased by £ 3.2 million but average walk-up customers fell from 8041/game the season before to 6878/game in the accounts season.

There is an extra £ 2.5 million that must have come from somewhere, maybe for the Cup final ? did they get our share !

***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-10-2016 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by greenginger

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Phil has posted a full copy of their accounts and the first bit I can't square is their gate receipts.

They went up to £ 17.3 million , an increase of £ 5.7 million.

In the Key Performance measures, season tickets sales increased by £ 3.2 million but average walk-up customers fell from 8041/game the season before to 6878/game in the accounts season.

There is an extra £ 2.5 million that must have come from somewhere, maybe for the Cup final ? did they get our share !

The gate receipts include hospitality income. Playing in a higher league will have justified them in putting the prices up.

Also, I'm not sure where the prize money from the League and Cup has been included. That may be in there.

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***grunt*** · 30-10-2016 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by greenginger

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There is an extra £ 2.5 million that must have come from somewhere, maybe for the Cup final ? did they get our share !

Think I read somewhere they got £1m from the Petrofac Cup run and win?

***greenginger*** · 30-10-2016 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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The gate receipts include hospitality income. Playing in a higher league will have justified them in putting the prices up.

Also, I'm not sure where the prize money from the League and Cup has been included. That may be in there.

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They were still in the championship in the season these figures are for.

***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-10-2016 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by greenginger

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They were still in the championship in the season these figures are for.

Ken

Was forgetting that they were 2 years in that. Maybe they put their prices up :)

However, they didn't have the Cup run in that first season. The big gates in the semi (albeit shared) and the final will have helped. Where was the Petrofac final? That would have been a good earner as well.

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**PatHead** · 30-10-2016 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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Ken

Was forgetting that they were 2 years in that. Maybe they put their prices up :)

However, they didn't have the Cup run in that first season. The big gates in the semi (albeit shared) and the final will have helped. Where was the Petrofac final? That would have been a good earner as well.

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Petrofac final was at Hampden. Would have been a good earner for the new club.

**Springbank** · 30-10-2016 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by magpie1892

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Rangers Retail Limited is a company registered in England and majority owned by Ashley. Rangers are tied into a deal with RRL for the next six years, a deal which gives sevco about 4p in the pound. It's a great piece of business by Ashley and there's nothing the hun can do about it, despite TLK's fighting talk. If you recall, King said in August that the hun were looking to launch their own kit. I wonder how that project is going?

I think you're being a bit premature to think that the hun will necessarily finish as runners up. Aberdeen are a better side with better players and a better manager. The hun signed 11 players in the summer, about 2-3 of that 11 are getting a regular game, and the wages of a number of the rest - Barton, Krancjar, Garner, Senderdross, etc. add up to quite a tidy sum.

It's all well and good saying that because the huns' wage bill is five times that of AFC they should be finishing second but that's a non-sequitur if they're literally throwing this money away on dross they don't/can't play.

Theres a buy back clause in that rangers retail deal too, where any unsold stock has to be bought (paid for) by rangers to mike Ashley (as owner of rangers retail)

as there's an ever-so-sensible and not-at-all-suicidal merchandise boycott going on, the accounts appear to show rangers had to pay Ashley (in his role as rangers retail owner) £850,000.

swell!

**HoboHarry** · 30-10-2016 06:36 PM

One of the comments on Phil Macs site is saying that Sevco are already out of any possible European tournament next season due the FFP regulations. Is this true?

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/val...haps-analysis/

**Mr White** · 30-10-2016 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by HoboHarry

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One of the comments on Phil Macs site is saying that Sevco are already out of any possible European tournament next season due the FFP regulations. Is this true?

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/val...haps-analysis/

If that's true I hope they finish 2nd or 3rd as being barred from Europe despite finishing in a qualifying league position would be absolutely ****ing hilarious. Even more so than finishing in the bottom 6. Although tbf that would also be pretty chuckleworthy.

***Ozyhibby*** · 30-10-2016 07:26 PM

Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

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***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-10-2016 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by HoboHarry

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One of the comments on Phil Macs site is saying that Sevco are already out of any possible European tournament next season due the FFP regulations. Is this true?

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/val...haps-analysis/

A quick Google suggests it's nonsense.....

http://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2064391.html

**HoboHarry** · 30-10-2016 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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A quick Google suggests it's nonsense.....

http://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2064391.html

Not so sure - the second paragraph of section 2 could trip them up could it not?

***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-10-2016 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by HoboHarry

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Not so sure - the second paragraph of section 2 could trip them up could it not?

The third section sets out the limits. Since they're being supported by their directors, the limits are quite high.

***Ozyhibby*** · 30-10-2016 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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The third section sets out the limits. Since they're being supported by their directors, the limits are quite high.

It does say direct contribution/payment? All the money into Sevco has been in the form of loans and the money from King came through an offshore company. Is this still ok?

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***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-10-2016 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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It does say direct contribution/payment? All the money into Sevco has been in the form of loans and the money from King came through an offshore company. Is this still ok?

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tbh, it's not that clear to me. But I can't see what other way they would expect losses to be covered. They do say that it's to prevent running-up unsustainable debt. I presume they mean "external" debt, to banks etc., rather than "internal"...... cough...... like when they owe it to themselves.

***Ozyhibby*** · 30-10-2016 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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tbh, it's not that clear to me. But I can't see what other way they would expect losses to be covered. They do say that it's to prevent running-up unsustainable debt. I presume they mean "external" debt, to banks etc., rather than "internal"...... cough...... like when they owe it to themselves.

Isn't the point that they expect losses not to happen at all but if they do then any cash put in must be a gift? Sevco's debt seems to be owed to a lot of different sources but it is all in the form of loans.

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***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-10-2016 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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Isn't the point that they expect losses not to happen at all but if they do then any cash put in must be a gift? Sevco's debt seems to be owed to a lot of different sources but it is all in the form of loans.

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Certainly doesn't stipulate gifts.

Section 7 talks about owners 'recapitalising". Loans are a form of capital.

it would be nice to see a list of definitions of the various terms they use, which are ambiguous IMO.

***Ozyhibby*** · 30-10-2016 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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Certainly doesn't stipulate gifts.

Section 7 talks about owners 'recapitalising". Loans are a form of capital.

it would be nice to see a list of definitions of the various terms they use, which are ambiguous IMO.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/...2_DOWNLOAD.pdf

It will all be in there.

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