Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Mr White]

Quantum. It's been a while since that word was seen on this thread.

[northstandhibby]

The reference to the 'Group' requiring money and the 'Group' being vulnerable as a going concern without additional monies is a bit of a puzzler.

Some time ago there were statements released informing any shortfalls by the rangers football club would be absorbed overall by 'the Group'.

Anybody have any information how it is now the 'Group' which is at risk without additional monies being raised.

Sorry if this has been answered before or is considered semantic but I am slightly puzzled.

GGTTH

[magpie1892]

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The "over investment" must be about to start then!

King took over the wrong club. He'd already be winning if he'd "saved" the yams.

I don't see King staying at sevco much longer. He's £20m in the hole from his previous dealings with the club when Murray was owner. He needs this back as he doesn't actually have any money and this is the only reason he's at the club. Sadly for King, the club does not have any money either and, in fact, desperately needs the mythical £30 million 'over investment' King promised when he took over. King's recently been told that if he wants to fly first class from ZA to see the huns 'going for 55' then he has to pay for these £12,000 tickets himself - hence not at Hampden last Sunday.

So what's the point in King hanging around? He's just going to get more grief as the penny finally drops with the ******ed hun hordes that King is potless. Further, despite the hun trumpeting that they'd 'got rid' of Ashley, he still has Rangers Retail Limited sewn up for the next six years, and Ibrox requires urgent and expensive maintenance - so it's actually even worse than King thought. Tragic stuff.

[Dashing Bob S]

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I don't see King staying at sevco much longer. He's £20m in the hole from his previous dealings with the club when Murray was owner. He needs this back as he doesn't actually have any money and this is the only reason he's at the club. Sadly for King, the club does not have any money either and, in fact, desperately needs the mythical £30 million 'over investment' King promised when he took over. King's recently been told that if he wants to fly first class from ZA to see the huns 'going for 55' then he has to pay for these £12,000 tickets himself - hence not at Hampden last Sunday.

So what's the point in King hanging around? He's just going to get more grief as the penny finally drops with the ******ed hun hordes that King is potless. Further, despite the hun trumpeting that they'd 'got rid' of Ashley, he still has Rangers Retail Limited sewn up for the next six years, and Ibrox requires urgent and expensive maintenance - so it's actually even worse than King thought. Tragic stuff.

If anybody on this board walked in there tomorrow and said we'd take everything, all the debts, off TLK's hands for a quid, they'd own that mess. All they'd need to do is bull**** the Record about off-the-charts wealth and overinvestment.

[Bostonhibby]

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I don't see King staying at sevco much longer. He's £20m in the hole from his previous dealings with the club when Murray was owner. He needs this back as he doesn't actually have any money and this is the only reason he's at the club. Sadly for King, the club does not have any money either and, in fact, desperately needs the mythical £30 million 'over investment' King promised when he took over. King's recently been told that if he wants to fly first class from ZA to see the huns 'going for 55' then he has to pay for these £12,000 tickets himself - hence not at Hampden last Sunday.

So what's the point in King hanging around? He's just going to get more grief as the penny finally drops with the ******ed hun hordes that King is potless. Further, despite the hun trumpeting that they'd 'got rid' of Ashley, he still has Rangers Retail Limited sewn up for the next six years, and Ibrox requires urgent and expensive maintenance - so it's actually even worse than King thought. Tragic stuff.

Yep, been pointing that way for a while, unless there's a rich mug out there who sees their "traditions" as worth saving. Wouldn't rule it out but the way they are pointing just really doesn't look like what King was describing at the outset, good entertainment though.

[Marco G]

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Yep, been pointing that way for a while, unless there's a rich mug out there who sees their "traditions" as worth saving. Wouldn't rule it out but the way they are pointing just really doesn't look like what King was describing at the outset, good entertainment though.

"Rich" and "Mug" don't often go together. There is so much needing funded at so many levels that I think its down to the "powers that be" to sort it out, respectfully.

[Skol]

King has been amazingly quiet of late

[magpie1892]

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If anybody on this board walked in there tomorrow and said we'd take everything, all the debts, off TLK's hands for a quid, they'd own that mess. All they'd need to do is bull**** the Record about off-the-charts wealth and overinvestment.

Murray did well to get a quid for deadco. I know I am not alone in finding it a source of genuine delight watching the most odious club in world football stumble from one self-inflicted crisis to the next. The summer signings were a masterstroke - I think two of the 11 players they signed are getting a regular game?

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Yep, been pointing that way for a while, unless there's a rich mug out there who sees their "traditions" as worth saving. Wouldn't rule it out but the way they are pointing just really doesn't look like what King was describing at the outset, good entertainment though.

I wouldn't rule it out but I think it's highly unlikely. If such a person existed, would we would not seen them by now? In time to prevent the first liquidation? Sevco need someone - like, yesterday - who values the club's nauseating traditions to such an extent that they are prepared to come in and immediately write off £50m of their own money just to stabilise the club's premises and playing squad. There's a reason most rich people stay rich.

The arithmetic increasingly points towards another liquidation event - for my money that's far more likely than some hun 'sugar daddy' making an unheralded appearance. I'm not sure if I want to watch the hun scratch around in midtable for the forseeable future or for them to go bust again. If the latter happened, it's hard to see how they would get parachuted straight back into the senior league like last time - nor how they could 'transfer' their tainted honours to another new club yet again.

As you observe, it is good entertainment, and we're only just getting started.

[The Green Goblin]

How much did they get from winning the Scottish Cup.... ahhh. Hahahahahahaha

[northstandhibby]

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Murray did well to get a quid for deadco. I know I am not alone in finding it a source of genuine delight watching the most odious club in world football stumble from one self-inflicted crisis to the next. The summer signings were a masterstroke - I think two of the 11 players they signed are getting a regular game?



I wouldn't rule it out but I think it's highly unlikely. If such a person existed, would we would not seen them by now? In time to prevent the first liquidation? Sevco need someone - like, yesterday - who values the club's nauseating traditions to such an extent that they are prepared to come in and immediately write off £50m of their own money just to stabilise the club's premises and playing squad. There's a reason most rich people stay rich.

The arithmetic increasingly points towards another liquidation event - for my money that's far more likely than some hun 'sugar daddy' making an unheralded appearance. I'm not sure if I want to watch the hun scratch around in midtable for the forseeable future or for them to go bust again. If the latter happened, it's hard to see how they would get parachuted straight back into the senior league like last time - nor how they could 'transfer' their tainted honours to another new club yet again.

As you observe, it is good entertainment, and we're only just getting started.

I think you may well be correct in a meltdown. It may not be a liquidation though. It could be a yam style administration which would free them from the huge hurdles of the Green/Ashley continuation contracts.

There is certainly an air of desperation of obtaining much needed capital and either as you say a very deep pocketed benefactor goes aboard or there is at some point going to be either administration or possibly liquidation.

It is certainly appearing that way. The signs are there.

GGTTH

[ancient hibee]

Must be time for Brian Kennedy to put in an appearance.

[ehf]

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GOING CONCERN
The Board of Directors (“the Board”) are required to prepare the statutory nancial statements on the going concern basis unless it is inappropriate to presume that the Group and Parent Company will continue in business. In satisfaction of this responsibility the Board have considered the Group’s ability to meet its liabilities as they fall due.
The Group’s business activities, together with the factors likely to a ect its future development and performance are set out in the Strategic Report. The Strategic Report also describes how the Group manages its capital, its liquidity risk and its exposure to credit risk.
The Group meets its day to day working capital requirements through existing cash facilities, investor loans and nance leases. Management information tools including budgets and cash ow forecasts are used to monitor and manage current and future liquidity. The Board acknowledges that there is a level of uncertainty in the general economic environment which may impact the trading position of its customers and suppliers.
The Board has undertaken a recent and thorough review of the Group’s forecasts and the associated risks. These forecasts extend for a period beyond one year from the date of approval of these nancial statements. The extent of this review re ected the current economic environment, the Club’s current and projected trading and position in Scottish football.
Key assumptions in respect of the Group’s forecasts are discussed within note 1 to the nancial statements.

GOING CONCERN (CONTINUED)
At the time of preparation, the forecast identi ed that the Group would require up to £4.0m by way of debt or equity funding by the end of season 2016/2017 in order to meet its liabilities as they fall due. Following the progression of the team to the Semi Finals of the Scottish League Cup, the funding requirement is now anticipated to be £3.75m. The rst tranche of funding amounting to £2.9m has been received from investors in October 2016, with further funds forecast to be required in March 2017.
Further funding may be required during the 2017/18 season, the quantum of which is dependent on future football performance and European football participation.
The Board of Directors has received undertakings from certain investors that they will provide nancial support to the Group and have satis ed themselves as to the validity of these undertakings and that the individuals have the means and authority to provide such funding as and when it is required. The Board acknowledge that had these assurances not been secured then a material uncertainty would exist which may cast doubt over the Group’s ability to continue as a going concern and therefore its ability to realise its assets and discharge its liabilities in the normal course of business. With the appropriate assurances obtained and the continued support of the investors, the Board believe that any such uncertainty has been removed.
The nancial support to be made available more than covers the projected shortfall for this season and beyond. The Board further understands that additional facilities can be made available as and when required for investment in the team.
As such, after making the enquiries referred to above, the Board of Directors believe that there is a reasonable expectation that the Group will at all times have adequate resources to continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future. Accordingly they continue to adopt the going concern basis in preparing this report and the statutory nancial statements.

That is complete dereliction of duty by the auditors; basically saying the Board are confident it will be OK but they have done nothing to verify this themselves. Shameful.

Presumably nothing in these accounts re contingent liabilities for repairs to the stadium.

[Ozyhibby]

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That is complete dereliction of duty by the auditors; basically saying the Board are confident it will be OK but they have done nothing to verify this themselves. Shameful.

Presumably nothing in these accounts re contingent liabilities for repairs to the stadium.

The banking crisis showed that auditors, ratings agencies etc are too conflicted by the need for work to do the job properly. I don't trust any of them.


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[Springbank]

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How much did they get from winning the Scottish Cup.... ahhh. Hahahahahahaha

In fairness to the tragic hat, he kept his 4 year old team in the contest right up until the 92nd minute. Plucky Losers thone huns.

[CropleyWasGod]

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That is complete dereliction of duty by the auditors; basically saying the Board are confident it will be OK but they have done nothing to verify this themselves. Shameful.

Presumably nothing in these accounts re contingent liabilities for repairs to the stadium.

How do you know that they have done nothing to verify it?



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[magpie1892]

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I think you may well be correct in a meltdown. It may not be a liquidation though. It could be a yam style administration which would free them from the huge hurdles of the Green/Ashley continuation contracts.

There is certainly an air of desperation of obtaining much needed capital and either as you say a very deep pocketed benefactor goes aboard or there is at some point going to be either administration or possibly liquidation.

It is certainly appearing that way. The signs are there.

GGTTH

There's a couple of people on here who could pontificate with some accuracy about whether or not the zombie club would be able to secure a CVA and avoid liquidation when they run out of money again. Though I think it can be said with some certainty that Ashley wouldn't take 3p in the pound..!

[northstandhibby]

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There's a couple of people on here who could pontificate with some accuracy about whether or not the zombie club would be able to secure a CVA and avoid liquidation when they run out of money again. Though I think it can be said with some certainty that Ashley wouldn't take 3p in the pound..!

The potential debts are nowhere near the levels when they were liquidated as per 2012. Methinks an administration would be the more likely outcome however it would be fraught with potential other confusions as per quoting per Bomber Brown 'Wheres ra deeds'.

I certainly agree there is some kind of administration or even liquidation event on the horizon as per the levels of anxiety of obtaining capital.

GGTTH

[CropleyWasGod]

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There's a couple of people on here who could pontificate with some accuracy about whether or not the zombie club would be able to secure a CVA and avoid liquidation when they run out of money again. Though I think it can be said with some certainty that Ashley wouldn't take 3p in the pound..!

Without knowing the exact make up of the creditors, that's almost impossible to tell.

They had debts at the end of June of about 15m. Close on 3m of that is HMRC, who wouldn't vote for a CVA.
There's no way of knowing what the attitude of the others would be.

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[magpie1892]

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Without knowing the exact make up of the creditors, that's almost impossible to tell.

They had debts at the end of June of about 15m. Close on 3m of that is HMRC, who wouldn't vote for a CVA.
There's no way of knowing what the attitude of the others would be.

With Rangers Retail Limited being a separate company to TRIFC, I'm not sure that the latter going into admin as a means of stiffing Ashley, for one, would work?

This reminds me so much of the countdown to Christmas when I was a bairn. We've all been so good this year, I'm certain we're going to get some ace presents.

[Ozyhibby]

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Without knowing the exact make up of the creditors, that's almost impossible to tell.

They had debts at the end of June of about 15m. Close on 3m of that is HMRC, who wouldn't vote for a CVA.
There's no way of knowing what the attitude of the others would be.

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Indeed. Dave King himself voted against the last CVA.


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[magpie1892]

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Indeed. Dave King himself voted against the last CVA.

Presumably he thought there was a better chance of his raping a zombie club for his £20m back, and anything else he could get his thieving hands on.

Turns out he was right, but completely outflanked by Charlie Green.

This time, there's nothing but existing debts, and impending new ones. Who's going to fix the three stands' roofs without getting the money up front? Do you think Queens Park FC will give them tick for the use of Hampden while Ibrox is getting fixed? And all those lovely players' contracts...

Talk about chickens coming home to roost!

[shreevesy]

Administration doesn't get rid of the onerous contracts only liquidation does that.

[Lendo]

Could someone confirm?

Clubs going into administration for the first time get a 15 point deduction. For a second round of administration it's a 25 point deduction.

We will maybe get to find out whether The Rangers consider themselves a new club or not.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Could someone confirm?

Clubs going into administration for the first time get a 15 point deduction. For a second round of administration it's a 25 point deduction.

We will maybe get to find out whether The Rangers consider themselves a new club or not.

There's no argument IMO.

It's 25 points for a second insolvency within 5 years, even if the owner of the club has changed.

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[ballengeich]

Is there anything in the accounts which indicates how much the combined supporters' group Club 1872 is contributing? I suspect that the directors may be relying on that for a significant proportion of this season's shortfall in return for the promise of a debt to equity exchange at some indeterminate future date.

For next season, a significant risk to them is that some of the season ticket holders will drift away if they don't see a serious title challenge being on. The same could happen to the 1872 input if they don't see the directors "investing" serious sums.

[Glory Lurker]

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There's no argument IMO.

It's 25 points for a second insolvency within 5 years, even if the owner of the club has changed.

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Frankly, you, sir, are no fun at all.

[Keith_M]

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I don't see King staying at sevco much longer. He's £20m in the hole from his previous dealings with the club when Murray was owner. He needs this back as he doesn't actually have any money and this is the only reason he's at the club. Sadly for King, the club does not have any money either and, in fact, desperately needs the mythical £30 million 'over investment' King promised when he took over. King's recently been told that if he wants to fly first class from ZA to see the huns 'going for 55' then he has to pay for these £12,000 tickets himself - hence not at Hampden last Sunday.

So what's the point in King hanging around? He's just going to get more grief as the penny finally drops with the ******ed hun hordes that King is potless. Further, despite the hun trumpeting that they'd 'got rid' of Ashley, he still has Rangers Retail Limited sewn up for the next six years, and Ibrox requires urgent and expensive maintenance - so it's actually even worse than King thought. Tragic stuff.

Sorry, but I can't possibly agree with the part in bold.

[Bostonhibby]

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There's no argument IMO.

It's 25 points for a second insolvency within 5 years, even if the owner of the club has changed.

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Sure that's right, known as the smell test.

Whatever they call it next time if it smells the same as the old club that's good enough for a 25 point deduction. Unless Reagan and Doncaster decide to help them out in some way again.

[Keith_M]

‘My view of what it will take to make Rangers competitive again is bottom end £30m but probably £50m — over the next four years,’ King told Sportsmail.

‘From the discussions I have to date I think there are other people who would come with me. ‘But I would say I would probably have to put in £30m of the £50m over the period of time. And I could probably get other people to put in £20m.

‘Would I be willing to invest £30m despite what happened previously? Of course. Sure.’


Dave King, Daily Mail, 2014 - immediately after passing the SFA's "fit and proper person" test (despite failing two out of three of the prerequisites)

[grunt]

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‘From the discussions I have to date I think there are other people who would come with me. ‘But I would say I would probably have to put in £30m of the £50m over the period of time. And I could probably get other people to put in £20m. Would I be willing to invest £30m despite what happened previously? Of course. Sure.’

Dave King

I'm sure he's just getting the "other people" to put their £20m in first.