Breaking News Of Terror Attack In Munich

[Keith_M]

The shooter was an Iranian, with German Citizenship, and was apparently shouting stuff about his hatred for Turks.


So far it sounds like one guy acting alone and no suggestion of links to IS

[Ronniekirk]

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The shooter was an Iranian, with German Citizenship, and was apparently shouting stuff about his hatred for Turks.


So far it sounds like one guy acting alone and no suggestion of links to IS

Yep loner with mental health issues aged just 18 inspired by far right guy in Norway think it was who killed all those young folk on an island
Was five years to the day since that incident
He lured people to McDonalds on face book with offer of free food



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[GreenLake]

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The shooter was an Iranian, with German Citizenship, and was apparently shouting stuff about his hatred for Turks.


So far it sounds like one guy acting alone and no suggestion of links to IS

I thought Germany had tight gun control laws. How did this nutter get hold of one?

[RyeSloan]

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I thought Germany had tight gun control laws. How did this nutter get hold of one?

I suppose no matter the laws it's probably reasonably easy to obtain a gun if you really want one, esp. In a country that has such high gun ownership and open borders to up to 20 odd other countries...

[Pretty Boy]

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I suppose no matter the laws it's probably reasonably easy to obtain a gun if you really want one, esp. In a country that has such high gun ownership and open borders to up to 20 odd other countries...

A quick google search, a couple of downloads and enough cash (or equivalent) and pretty much anyone can procure a gun.

[Keith_M]

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I thought Germany had tight gun control laws. How did this nutter get hold of one?

Actually, the gun control laws are not nearly as strict as in the UK. However, the guy apparently bought his from the Internet.

[Keith_M]

There's been another attack in Reutlingen, Baden Wurtemburg, this time a guy with a machete.

One woman dead and others injured. No details as to the motive but N24 reporting the attacker to be Syrian, so they know who he is.



UPDATE: This was not a Terrorist attack, it was a domestic incident. The initial reporting concentrated on his nationality, so obvious suspicions arose as to the motives.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Surprised Rasta_Hibs isnae all over this thread.

[hibsbollah]

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Surprised Rasta_Hibs isnae all over this thread.

Left, I believe. (As in past tense of leave, not his political stance)...

[Jim44]

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Impossible to say. We all thought the breivik attack was al qaeda at first.

Habe to think though that it is only our natural geographic advantages and probably our effective security services that have pevented these in uk so far. Thats not meant to sound complacent, more grateful

I hope you can continue to be grateful for years to come, but, to my way of thinking, it's just a matter of time before there is a major incident in one of our larger cities.

[Hibrandenburg]

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There's been another attack in Reutlingen, Baden Wurtemburg, this time a guy with a machete.

One woman dead and others injured. No details as to the motive but N24 reporting the attacker to be Syrian, so they know who he is.

Domestic violence incident like we see in Glasgow, Liverpool and London every other week. Only thing that makes this different and headline news is the perpetrator's nationality. Getting tired of this bull**** to be honest.

[Keith_M]

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Domestic violence incident like we see in Glasgow, Liverpool and London every other week. Only thing that makes this different and headline news is the perpetrator's nationality. Getting tired of this bull**** to be honest.

Yep, it is. It was badly reported at first as if it was a terrorist attack. I think it's because of the number of incidents in the last week or so.


However, there's now been a suicide bomb attack by a Syrian Refugee in Ansbach, Fortunately the only person that was killed was the bomber but other people have been injured.

He was turned away from a Music Festival shortly before, which now looks like his intended target.

This one was definitely not a domestic incident.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

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Domestic violence incident like we see in Glasgow, Liverpool and London every other week. Only thing that makes this different and headline news is the perpetrator's nationality. Getting tired of this bull**** to be honest.

I do think the media have a responsibility to report accurately at times like this and such speculation is unhelpful, although probably consistent with public thought.

But the problems with the media go deeper than sensationalist headlines and speculation IMO and they do always seem to focus on the most devisive and negative part of a story. For example, I remember last year in London there was a massive anti-IS parade by Muslims which wasn't even mentioned on BBC (yet they often cover protests from a small number of dickheads from the BNP). I feel they have a responsibility to report positive things like this that could genuinely influence and improve people's views. I'd also blame the media for the tone of the EU debate being so negative and focused on immigration when that was only part of much bigger issue. People focus on what the media tell them to.

That being said, and I know this is separate to your post, the nationality of the terrorists committing offences is newsworthy given some of them may be migrants that Merkel actively encouraged to come to mainland EU without any kind of background check. It brings in to question the judgement Merkel made and I don't have an issue with this being discussed so long as it's done objectively.

[Keith_M]

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I do think the media have a responsibility to report accurately at times like this and such speculation is unhelpful, although probably consistent with public thought.

But the problems with the media go deeper than sensationalist headlines and speculation IMO and they do always seem to focus on the most devisive and negative part of a story. For example, I remember last year in London there was a massive anti-IS parade by Muslims which wasn't even mentioned on BBC (yet they often cover protests from a small number of dickheads from the BNP). I feel they have a responsibility to report positive things like this that could genuinely influence and improve people's views. I'd also blame the media for the tone of the EU debate being so negative and focused on immigration when that was only part of much bigger issue. People focus on what the media tell them to.

That being said, and I know this is separate to your post, the nationality of the terrorists committing offences is newsworthy given some of them may be migrants that Merkel actively encouraged to come to mainland EU without any kind of background check. It brings in to question the judgement Merkel made and I don't have an issue with this being discussed so long as it's done objectively.

I agree with this, HH.

I think there are two dangerous extremes;

The first are the parts of the Media, Politicians and others that want to portray all Muslims/Refugees/Immigrants in a bad light and, as you have pointed out, not giving enough focus to the condemnation by the majority of these kind of events. An estimated one million refugees came to Germany in a very short time and only a tiny minority have engaged in criminal behaviour... probably less pro-rata than the people that live here already.

The opposite extreme are those that are determined to see or hearing nothing that does not fit their 'open-minded' (in their eyes) world view. The events in Cologne, and other German cities, at New Year are a perfect example, where it appeared that some people were desperate to play down first the scale of events and then deny the origins of the majority of the perpetrators (largely north-west African criminal gangs). Some people pointed to the Mayor of Cologne's denials as a defense for their viewpoint, conveniently putting aside the fact he had to resign because of his attempts to play down, possibly cover up, what actually happened.


Both of these extremes are equally dangerous, the latter because those that feel they have a genuine grieviance (whether right or wrong) see no-one in the mainstream of politics or the media willing to even discuss it, so are sometimes attracted to those that claim to listen, people like Farage and his ilk.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I agree with this, HH.

I think there are two dangerous extremes;

The first are the parts of the Media, Politicians and others that want to portray all Muslims/Refugees/Immigrants in a bad light and, as you have pointed out, not giving enough focus to the condemnation by the majority of these kind of events. An estimated one million refugees came to Germany in a very short time and only a tiny minority have engaged in criminal behaviour... probably less pro-rata than the people that live here already.

The opposite extreme are those that are determined to see or hearing nothing that does not fit their 'open-minded' (in their eyes) world view. The events in Cologne, and other German cities, at New Year are a perfect example, where it appeared that some people were desperate to play down first the scale of events and then deny the origins of the majority of the perpetrators (largely north-west African criminal gangs). Some people pointed to the Mayor of Cologne's denials as a defense for their viewpoint, conveniently putting aside the fact he had to resign because of his attempts to play down, possibly cover up, what actually happened.


Both of these extremes are equally dangerous, the latter because those that feel they have a genuine grieviance (whether right or wrong) see no-one in the mainstream of politics or the media willing to even discuss it, so are sometimes attracted to those that claim to listen, people like Farage and his ilk.

The problem is talking about it. Racism is so deeply rooted that it defies all logic. You could school someone for weeks about how and why you can't make general or sweeping assumptions about race, culture, religion or nationality but in some people the fear of what they don't know overrides all logic and they end up fitting the facts to their beliefs.

Sometimes I think the human race is made up of two types of personality. Those who are open to the world and eager to learn more about it and those who fear change and will defend what they see as the status quo. The latter are where your extremists come from on both ends of the political spectrum and are essentially alike. Many of them don't even realise they're inward looking because they tend to surround themselves with like minded people who confirm their views.

[Keith_M]

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The problem is talking about it. Racism is so deeply rooted that it defies all logic. You could school someone for weeks about how and why you can't make general or sweeping assumptions about race, culture, religion or nationality but in some people the fear of what they don't know overrides all logic and they end up fitting the facts to their beliefs.

Sometimes I think the human race is made up of two types of personality. Those who are open to the world and eager to learn more about it and those who fear change and will defend what they see as the status quo. The latter are where your extremists come from on both ends of the political spectrum and are essentially alike. Many of them don't even realise they're inward looking because they tend to surround themselves with like minded people who confirm their views.

Sad but true

[Holmesdale Hibs]

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I agree with this, HH.

I think there are two dangerous extremes;

The first are the parts of the Media, Politicians and others that want to portray all Muslims/Refugees/Immigrants in a bad light and, as you have pointed out, not giving enough focus to the condemnation by the majority of these kind of events. An estimated one million refugees came to Germany in a very short time and only a tiny minority have engaged in criminal behaviour... probably less pro-rata than the people that live here already.

The opposite extreme are those that are determined to see or hearing nothing that does not fit their 'open-minded' (in their eyes) world view. The events in Cologne, and other German cities, at New Year are a perfect example, where it appeared that some people were desperate to play down first the scale of events and then deny the origins of the majority of the perpetrators (largely north-west African criminal gangs). Some people pointed to the Mayor of Cologne's denials as a defense for their viewpoint, conveniently putting aside the fact he had to resign because of his attempts to play down, possibly cover up, what actually happened.


Both of these extremes are equally dangerous, the latter because those that feel they have a genuine grieviance (whether right or wrong) see no-one in the mainstream of politics or the media willing to even discuss it, so are sometimes attracted to those that claim to listen, people like Farage and his ilk.

I think that's a good summary. People do seem to focus on the extreme sides of any arguments and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

I saw you mention earlier that you live in Germany, which must be quite strange at the moment. How do you see this impacting German politics? Is Merkel still quite popular? My (non-expert) opinion on all of this is that Merkel's call for migrants to come to Europe will go down in history as big mistake. Germany has failed to cope with the numbers and is trying to enforce quotas on other countries that simply (rightly or wrongly) don't wan't them. This has led to tensions between and within many EU countries with no obvious solution. Then there's the migrants themselves of course, the majority of which are fleeing a war zone in search of a safe place to live and work and have been treated as a political football. They have been mislead in to the kind of welcome they receive have had their lives turned upside down. Finally there's the small minority that have caused problems, which people also don't know how to deal with or even identify. Some reasonable foresight and due diligence should have flagged these problems.

Based on the above, I find it difficult to see Merkel being re-elected. However this is based on me trying to think how I'd feel if I was german and would be interested to know what the german public think.

Hope everything settles down over there. Mrs H is part german and its a great country and sad to see these recent events.

[Keith_M]

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I think that's a good summary. People do seem to focus on the extreme sides of any arguments and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

I saw you mention earlier that you live in Germany, which must be quite strange at the moment. How do you see this impacting German politics? Is Merkel still quite popular? My (non-expert) opinion on all of this is that Merkel's call for migrants to come to Europe will go down in history as big mistake. Germany has failed to cope with the numbers and is trying to enforce quotas on other countries that simply (rightly or wrongly) don't wan't them. This has led to tensions between and within many EU countries with no obvious solution. Then there's the migrants themselves of course, the majority of which are fleeing a war zone in search of a safe place to live and work and have been treated as a political football. They have been mislead in to the kind of welcome they receive have had their lives turned upside down. Finally there's the small minority that have caused problems, which people also don't know how to deal with or even identify. Some reasonable foresight and due diligence should have flagged these problems.

Based on the above, I find it difficult to see Merkel being re-elected. However this is based on me trying to think how I'd feel if I was german and would be interested to know what the german public think.

Hope everything settles down over there. Mrs H is part german and its a great country and sad to see these recent events.

Hi HH,
I think Merkel's popularity probably has decreased but not so much as you'd think. There really is only one genuine rival party, the SPD (the one's she's in coalition with) and they're very much in favour of taking in refugees, so anyone unhappy about it doesn't have a major alternative when it comes to the next election.

It's probably not a popular opinion among many but Mrs K and I are both of the opinion that the countries that do so well out of the arms trade really can't complain when the refugees turn up, wanting to escape the conflict that makes billions for the arms manufacturers. Germany has a major arms industry and, believe me, they have done very well out of it. If I had the chance, I'd make them pay to house and feed the refugees.

As you say, Germany really is a great country to live in and a fantastic place to visit. For anyone thinking of coming here for a holiday, I'd encourage them to not let the scare stories put you off.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Hi HH,
I think Merkel's popularity probably has decreased but not so much as you'd think. There really is only one genuine rival party, the SPD (the one's she's in coalition with) and they're very much in favour of taking in refugees, so anyone unhappy about it doesn't have a major alternative when it comes to the next election.

It's probably not a popular opinion among many but Mrs K and I are both of the opinion that the countries that do so well out of the arms trade really can't complain when the refugees turn up, wanting to escape the conflict that makes billions for the arms manufacturers. Germany has a major arms industry and, believe me, they have done very well out of it. If I had the chance, I'd make them pay to house and feed the refugees.

As you say, Germany really is a great country to live in and a fantastic place to visit. For anyone thinking of coming here for a holiday, I'd encourage them to not let the scare stories put you off.

Excellent post and pretty much where I am.

I keep getting told by some on social media that I can't judge just how bad the situation is in the UK because I don't live here. Then the very same people start posting made up stories about how bad the situation is here in Germany and if we don't close the UK borders then it will be just as bad there soon. So they're basically telling me that the UK is close to be taken over by islamists but it's not as bad as Germany! Makes my blood boil the huge amount of folks who believe anything they see on social media without bothering to check the facts.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

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Hi HH,
I think Merkel's popularity probably has decreased but not so much as you'd think. There really is only one genuine rival party, the SPD (the one's she's in coalition with) and they're very much in favour of taking in refugees, so anyone unhappy about it doesn't have a major alternative when it comes to the next election.

It's probably not a popular opinion among many but Mrs K and I are both of the opinion that the countries that do so well out of the arms trade really can't complain when the refugees turn up, wanting to escape the conflict that makes billions for the arms manufacturers. Germany has a major arms industry and, believe me, they have done very well out of it. If I had the chance, I'd make them pay to house and feed the refugees.

As you say, Germany really is a great country to live in and a fantastic place to visit. For anyone thinking of coming here for a holiday, I'd encourage them to not let the scare stories put you off.

Interesting, thanks for responding. I think your view about the arms industry is fair and I can't see too many people complaining if arms dealers were told to pay some kind of war tax. It surprises me there's not more of an outcry when we sell arms to some pretty dubious people and it's something folks across the political spectrum should agree on.

[heretoday]

Well a wee guy said to me on the bus today "the world's gone mad, eh?"

[Hibrandenburg]

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I do think the media have a responsibility to report accurately at times like this and such speculation is unhelpful, although probably consistent with public thought.

But the problems with the media go deeper than sensationalist headlines and speculation IMO and they do always seem to focus on the most devisive and negative part of a story. For example, I remember last year in London there was a massive anti-IS parade by Muslims which wasn't even mentioned on BBC (yet they often cover protests from a small number of dickheads from the BNP). I feel they have a responsibility to report positive things like this that could genuinely influence and improve people's views. I'd also blame the media for the tone of the EU debate being so negative and focused on immigration when that was only part of much bigger issue. People focus on what the media tell them to.

That being said, and I know this is separate to your post, the nationality of the terrorists committing offences is newsworthy given some of them may be migrants that Merkel actively encouraged to come to mainland EU without any kind of background check. It brings in to question the judgement Merkel made and I don't have an issue with this being discussed so long as it's done objectively.

I've now done a wee bit of research and the statistics of what Germans would call Amoklauf (killing sprees) is a bit of an eye opener. In the last 25 years there's been 12 cases in Germany. 10 of those 12 cases were carried out by German men, 1 a German woman and the other a German man with Iranian parents. Kind of puts to bed the media's hyperbole that Germany is suffering a wave of Islamic atrocities.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

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I've now done a wee bit of research and the statistics of what Germans would call Amoklauf (killing sprees) is a bit of an eye opener. In the last 25 years there's been 12 cases in Germany. 10 of those 12 cases were carried out by German men, 1 a German woman and the other a German man with Iranian parents. Kind of puts to bed the media's hyperbole that Germany is suffering a wave of Islamic atrocities.

That's some good research and agree it would be good if the media reported things like this to add some context. There have been a few events recently that wouldn't qualify as Amoklauf but still count as terror attacks (guy on the train, bomber at the music festival) which shouldn't be ignored though. But you make a fair point and perspective is needed.