Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Ozyhibby]

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Who is it from?

https://www.change.org/p/scottish-fo...m_medium=email


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[Jim44]

Watching the golf from USA last week, I noticed that one guy's sponsor was none other than Duff and Phelps. I take there's an honest and legit side to the company.

[grunt]

Comment here about our own Rod

http://johnjamessite.com/2016/03/16/...rity-for-sale/

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Sporting Integrity For Sale

“Dear all (Neil Doncaster SPL, his Scottish Football League counterpart David Longmuir, SFL President Jim Ballantyne, SFA vice-president Alan McRae, Hibernian chief executive Rod Petrie, SPL chairman Ralph Topping).
Many thanks for your contribution and support over the last two weeks in trying to deliver a programme of change that will move Scottish football forward whilst addressing the need to deal with the Rangers matter with integrity and in line with our own values as an organisation.
I was hugely encouraged with where we got to last night on a long and tiring phone call and I thank all of you for your efforts to move this issue forward.
I thought it would be helpful if I summarised where I think we are:
1. The Rangers Football Club will be relegated to the 1st Division of the SFL with immediate effect and will be replaced in the SPL by Dundee FC.
2. The television rights for Rangers FC matches in the SFL will be purchased by the SPL for the sum of £1m as a one-off fee for the season 2012/2013.
A) A joint statement today from all 3 bodies confirming that productive discussions have taken place on a new blueprint for Scottish football. Consultation will continue over the next two weeks with a view to clubs getting together week commencing 2nd July to try and agree the way forward. (Darryl Broadfoot to provide this and circulate to David Longmuir/Neil Doncaster for approval)
B) Rod Petriw / Jim Ballantyne to finalise the all-through financial model by Wednesday this week latest.
C) Neil / David to finalise the detail on Governance, Commercials and Play-Offs (ideally Monday/Tuesday) and incorporate these, plus the financials in B) above into a legally binding Heads of Terms ‘draft’ for presentation to each league body w/c 2nd July.
D) David Lomgmuir to organise SFL Board Meeting w/c 25th June to gain buy-in to the plan and also arrange an all club meeting w/c 2nd July
E) Neil Doncaster to gain support from SPL Clubs 28th June
F) SFL Clubs Meeting to be planned for 3rd July
G) SPL Club Meeting to be planned for 4th July
H) Scottish FA Board to sign off on the final plan post 4th July. Subject to approval all bodies (including Newco) to sign legal documentation.
I) Agree joint communication strategy
J) In parallel to A-D above, could Rod Petrie please brief Charles Green confidentially on the discussions from a Scottish FA perspective so that there are ‘no surprises’ and there is a general acceptance of the plan plus all of the other conditions discussed e.g. transfer embargo, fines, repayment of football debt, waiving rights to legal challenge, acceptance of relegation and so on.
K) Andrew Dickson to ensure our check list of disclosures relating to Newco and Fit & Proper Person criteria are delivered by 2nd july. The Board will need these plus the Heads of Terms above in order to complete this plan.
The Scottish FA Board have agreed to provide a one-off restructuring budget of £1m on condition the above plan is delivered.
I hope this covers everything.
Speak soon….now off to the airport!
Regards
Stewart”

The plan backfired spectacularly on Friday 13 July 2012 when the SFL chairman rejected the proposals and voted 25-2 (3 abstentions) in favour of Newco Rangers entering the bottom tier. Turnbull Hutton of Raith Rovers stated unequivocally that the Scottish FA and SPL were corrupt and that their plan to railroad SFL chairman into accepting their proposals, with a threat of an SPL2 breakaway league to accommodate Rangers and exclude those that did not support their plan, beggared belief. The SFL chairman wanted Regan’s head and a consensus was building for a vote of no confidence, but this was stymied by Regan’s ally, SFL chairman Jim Ballantyne, who stated that there was no item on the agenda and that the forum was the inappropriate vehicle for a vote of no confidence

The most controversial point was Regan’s s instruction to Petrie – a man who claimed on May 14 2012 that sporting integrity was “beyond purchase” – to brief newco Rangers owner Charles Green “confidentially” on the various issues so that there could be “no surprises.”
Regan also said in the email that Dundee would replace Rangers in the Scottish Premier League in season 2012/2013, even though the SPL clubs were not due to choose between them and rival candidates Dunfermline until their annual general meeting on 25th June 2012, which was two days subsequent to the e-mail being sent. Moves were afoot at this meeting to create an SPL2 to accommodate Rangers, but this was not accepted.

Regan also makes it clear that for newco Rangers to be granted membership of the SFA – which they need in order to compete in the SFL – Green must accept the transfer embargo handed down by the SFA’s judicial panel in April, even though it was ruled unlawful by Lord Glennie at the Court of Session in May.

On top of that, Regan stressed that the club will still be responsible for any other fines and sanctions imposed as a result of the wrongdoing of previous regimes, such as the improper registration of players.

Let’s look at the players in this corrupt enterprise. Regan is still in place. Doncaster has an enhanced remit as CEO of the SPFL. McRae was promoted from Vice President to President of the SFA. Ralph Topping is chairman of the SPFL and a key member of The Scottish FA’s Professional Game Board. Rod Petrie, who briefed Charles Green, has been rewarded for his loyalty by being elevated to the position as Vice President of The SFA.

These five individuals run a business with a turnover of £60m+ who went out of their way to ‘relegate’ Rangers to the then first division. However there was no mechanism for ‘relegation’ so they had to make one up. They had decided in advance that RFC PLC’s share in the SPL would be given to Dundee. As the club/company no longer existed as a vital football entity it could not be relegated. The best the SFA could do was to transfer the licence of the former club to the new club, which they duly did.

The petition by Reiver, which has featured prominently on this site, is an attempt to have these corrupt individuals removed from football. Their decision to allow a convicted criminal to be chairman of Rangers is an exercise in corruption. Their decision to approve Paul Murray, who was a member of a board who perpetrated two tax frauds, is unconscionable. Their decision to create a kangaroo court, the LNS commission, to exonerate themselves and Rangers for what was tantamount to match fixing, was beneath contempt. Their decision to grant a licence for UEFA participation in 2011 transgressed two UEFA regulations. The decision to ignore company law and transfer 114 titles to enhance the commercial attraction of a member club is unprecedented.

Scottish football is a game played by Rangers, with a ball owned by the SFA/SPFL. Those who put their shirts down as goal posts have long since lost them and with them went their integrity.

[grunt]

Another win for the Rangers

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...OzNGYE.twitter

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WE are pleased to advise that the appeal by Charles Green against the decision of the Lord Ordinary to dismiss his application to have Rangers International Football Club PLC meet the expenses of the criminal proceedings brought against him has been refused.

Lady Dorrian, Lord Bracadale and Lord Malcolm sitting in the Inner House of the Court of Session unanimously reached this decision.
Rangers Chairman Dave King stated: ‘I am delighted by this decision. When the new board was installed last year we made a commitment that we would protect Rangers interests at all times and hold those who damaged our Club to account. This was already evidenced by our success in dealing with the frivolous litigation launched by Sports Direct against the Club and myself – including punitive cost awards in our favour.’

Mr King added: ‘We are unsurprised but delighted that this latest court success brings to an end the unjustifiable claims by Charles Green. He is now totally responsible for the cost of defending himself in the criminal case brought against him for his dealings with the Club. Furthermore, we will vigorously pursue Charles Green for recovery of the legal costs that we incurred including the £50,000 lodged with the Court as a caution.’

[Ronniekirk]

So it looking more and more like King s Strategy is winning through
He hasnt yet invested a fraction of what he said he would
They have reduced debt to increasingly manageable levels
They are more or less guaranteed automatic promotion by the looks of things
They are merging supporters association under one new banner so they can start buying shares in the club
They will have no problem getting new investment next season i assume when back in Top League
Assume they will shift more season tickets
So is there any other fly in the ointment that can stop them going from Strength to strength
I am beginning to get the distinct impression that they are now over the worst


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[JeMeSouviens]

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So it looking more and more like King s Strategy is winning through
He hasnt yet invested a fraction of what he said he would
They have reduced debt to increasingly manageable levels
They are more or less guaranteed automatic promotion by the looks of things
They are merging supporters association under one new banner so they can start buying shares in the club
They will have no problem getting new investment next season i assume when back in Top League
Assume they will shift more season tickets
So is there any other fly in the ointment that can stop them going from Strength to strength
I am beginning to get the distinct impression that they are now over the worst


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If the asset purchase by Sevco is declared fraudulent then conceivably BDO could come looking for it to be sold again on behalf of Old Hun creditors. That ongoing possibility may deter investors of the non-emotional type.

Other than that the main fly in their ointment is they need to hit the ground running in the top flight. The hordes will not accept anything other than triumphalist triumph. There is no sign as yet of the kind of money they probably need to get near Celtic quickly.

[Geo_1875]

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If the asset purchase by Sevco is declared fraudulent then conceivably BDO could come looking for it to be sold again on behalf of Old Hun creditors. That ongoing possibility may deter investors of the non-emotional type.

Other than that the main fly in their ointment is they need to hit the ground running in the top flight. The hordes will not accept anything other than triumphalist triumph. There is no sign as yet of the kind of money they probably need to get near Celtic quickly.

Their big problem will be the mobs reaction should they fail achieve overnight success. King will struggle to keep them happy without spending more than other peoples money.

[Ronniekirk]

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If the asset purchase by Sevco is declared fraudulent then conceivably BDO could come looking for it to be sold again on behalf of Old Hun creditors. That ongoing possibility may deter investors of the non-emotional type.

Other than that the main fly in their ointment is they need to hit the ground running in the top flight. The hordes will not accept anything other than triumphalist triumph. There is no sign as yet of the kind of money they probably need to get near Celtic quickly.

Thanks for that Will be interested to see how the semi final pans out if Griffiths was injured
I know The Rangers don't yet have a million quid to spend on a player but Celtic haven't bought as well in i recent years imo
Ironically We may have assembled a squad capable of doing better in the top league than The Rangers but they have shown they ave the squad to win the Championship


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[Smartie]

Whenever I hear of investors being required by Rangers I get the feeling they are still in trouble.

Investor = someone who puts in money with the purpose of getting that money back + profit. Profit made (generally so far) at the expense of the efforts of the Rangers fans.

What many Rangers fans want is a return to the good old days when an "investor" was anything but, but was an idiot who was prepared to plough their hard-earned (or ill-gotten) money into a lost cause never to see it again.

There do seem to be a few these days though who have learned a lesson - having so nearly lost their club and having seen it go through the mill they have less inclination to see it act as profligately as they have in the past.

They need to be self-sufficient and imo the approach King has taken has been the right one for them. They need to live within their means and work with the not inconsiderable sums that "the hordes" can generate.

They look like they're pretty much out of the woods to me and might be going up at the right time for them. Celtic are no great shakes and are there for the taking. Their income will have taken a hit over the past few years and their pitiful European efforts won't have generated a significant amount of cash over the past few years.

I hate to give Rangers credit but in many ways if they pull through this I'm happy to put the whole thing behind me. They've done their time, they've done a stint in the lower leagues and I'm happy enough to move on. They're still a horrible bunch who need to do a lot more throughout the entire club to control their unpleasant element (and not actively encourage it) but if they get their house in order financially and live within their means then fair play to them.

I'm not up for retrospectively stripping titles but I want to have confidence that there is a rigid enough structure in place at the SFA that any such financial fuddery will not be tolerated in future. I have no such confidence right now as long as so many tarnished figures remain in position.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Thanks for that Will be interested to see how the semi final pans out if Griffiths was injured
I know The Rangers don't yet have a million quid to spend on a player but Celtic haven't bought as well in i recent years imo
Ironically We may have assembled a squad capable of doing better in the top league than The Rangers but they have shown they ave the squad to win the Championship

Yeah, you would imagine the New Huns will have more to spend than Aberdeen and they've managed to stay reasonably close to Delia's Celtc. The New Huns would be doing well to get to Aberdeen's current level within a season or 2 but I don't imagine too many of their fans will be happy with that, especially if Celtc sort themselves out with a new manager over the summer.

[Bishop Hibee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35845621

Newco will "vigorously pursue" Green for legal costs after his appeal failed.

[Bostonhibby]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35845621

Newco will "vigorously pursue" Green for legal costs after his appeal failed.

Green "losing" for the time being could be interesting. He must have a story to tell about events just before he appeared and during the early days of his stewardship. If only a Scottish paper fancied taking the story on. Never been a better time to offer him a few quid for his version of events

[doddsy]

It was expected Green would lose his case in the Court of Session. The said Court is a corrupt institution that will always favour the so-called establishment and Rangers are just such a one. The said Court is supplied by Lords employed by the Courts and Tribunals Services ultimately employed vicariously by the Government. There is no such thing as an independent Lord or Judge.

I did say on this thread some time ago Rangers will be awarded every judgement ultimately by their band of brothers the Lords of the Courts and Tribunal Services which is a very bigoted establishment institution. What may happen with Whyte and Co in the criminal trial is they may cop to some minor plea and be brushed under the carpet or be found not guilty. Mark my words, the establishment protects it's own vigourously.

[HoboHarry]

Any input on these beliefs/ideas/fairy tales (delete as appropriate)....... CWG?

http://johnjamessite.com/

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/pol...goes-to-ibrox/

[CropleyWasGod]

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Any input on these beliefs/ideas/fairy tales (delete as appropriate)....... CWG?

http://johnjamessite.com/

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/pol...goes-to-ibrox/

First of all, the moment JJ starts with figures, my eyes glaze over. The only thing he says of in that piece that caught my attention is "The accountants who read my projections will rail against ....." We rail against most of what you say, JJ.......

That said, his figures may be reasonable. He just has so much previous that I CBA analysing them The only thing people should be aware of is that, since they won the case against Chucky, RFC should be able to limp on until they can start selling ST's.

On Phil's piece, it's much the same song. "They huvnae any money". Again, it's wishful thinking and straw-clutching.

This is where I issue a disclaimer that, for all I know, there's another bomb ticking away which will explode over the next week or so and slip them 25 points down. The way things are going with us, I'm not even sure that will be much good.

[Keith_M]

The Rangers are not going bust anytime soon. We should just close thread and concentrate on our own problems.

[doddsy]

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Any input on these beliefs/ideas/fairy tales (delete as appropriate)....... CWG?

http://johnjamessite.com/

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/pol...goes-to-ibrox/

Who would you believe- Dave King and Radar K Jackson or these men Phil and john james who are attempting to give the real story to the less naive.

They are merely keeping us abreast of the true story unlike the Scottish Media who are now timid- think of what happened to the journo Haggerty when she gave an honest account of a story involving rangers- sacked and alienated, albeit I believe she has served a penance and been readmitted into the fold with a word in the shellike to not do that again. If it was'nt for men like Phil and john james we would still be having the wool pulled down over the eyes. Keep up the good work.

[doddsy]

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The Rangers are not going bust anytime soon. We should just close thread and concentrate on our own problems.

You don't have to click on this thread if you don't like it.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Who would you believe- Dave King and Radar K Jackson or these men Phil and john james who are attempting to give the real story to the less naive.

They are merely keeping us abreast of the true story unlike the Scottish Media who are now timid- think of what happened to the journo Haggerty when she gave an honest account of a story involving rangers- sacked and alienated, albeit I believe she has served a penance and been readmitted into the fold with a word in the shellike to not do that again. If it was'nt for men like Phil and john james we would still be having the wool pulled down over the eyes. Keep up the good work.

Can't agree about JJ.

His financial positing has been pretty poor for the most part. As I've said a few times on here, every time I challenge him, he fails to either answer me or allow my posting.

Phil is different. But, as the immediate crisis recedes, even he is looking for straws to grab. On Twitter and the likes, the arguments between he and his like on one side, and the RFC guys on the other, has been reduced to "We ur" vs. "Naw ye urnae".

[doddsy]

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Can't agree about JJ.

His financial positing has been pretty poor for the most part. As I've said a few times on here, every time I challenge him, he fails to either answer me or allow my posting.

Phil is different. But, as the immediate crisis recedes, even he is looking for straws to grab. On Twitter and the likes, the arguments between he and his like on one side, and the RFC guys on the other, has been reduced to "We ur" vs. "Naw ye urnae".

It's not hard to believe RIFC are around 30 million in debt. The SD agreement is still in place. The saga of BDO still runs as to creditors. The criminal proceedings may or may not take place. I am still no clearer as to how the ultimate ownership will pan out. There is still much to see in this ongoing circus. As for the Newco v Oldco we all know Rangers were liquidated but are more or less the same club.

[grunt]

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It's not hard to believe RIFC are around 30 million in debt.

If you're talking about PMcG's blog, then I don't think he's suggesting that they're £30m in debt - he's saying they've lost £30m which is different.
My problem with his current blogs is that he's discussing a set of accounts that no one has yet seen. Unless I missed it.

Like CWG I no longer even bother looking at JJ's site.

[CropleyWasGod]

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It's not hard to believe RIFC are around 30 million in debt. The SD agreement is still in place. The saga of BDO still runs as to creditors. The criminal proceedings may or may not take place. I am still no clearer as to how the ultimate ownership will pan out. There is still much to see in this ongoing circus. As for the Newco v Oldco we all know Rangers were liquidated but are more or less the same club.

I agree with you on that, but we're probably the only 2 people outside Govan who think that way.

But no way are they £30m in debt..............

[greenginger]

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If you're talking about PMcG's blog, then I don't think he's suggesting that they're £30m in debt - he's saying they've lost £30m which is different.
My problem with his current blogs is that he's discussing a set of accounts that no one has yet seen. Unless I missed it.

Like CWG I no longer even bother looking at JJ's site.

They are discussing the Sevco ( ie football club accounts ) to the period ending 30/6/2015, just published. They contain all the information that was in RIFC accounts ( the holding company ) for the same period that were published in December.

The only major difference is the accumulated losses figure which has been reduced by pumping up the goodwill value of RIFC.

Huns and goodwill !

[Ronniekirk]

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The Rangers are not going bust anytime soon. We should just close thread and concentrate on our own problems.

I will go further i don't think they are gong bust at all
I think by the end of next season they will be through the worst


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[doddsy]

[QUOTE=grunt;4628128]If you're talking about PMcG's blog, then I don't think he's suggesting that they're £30m in debt - he's saying they've lost £30m which is different.
My problem with his current blogs is that he's discussing a set of accounts that no one has yet seen. Unless I missed it.

Like CWG I no longer even bother looking at JJ's site.[/QUOTE

Don't get me wrong I am no accountant but making a loss of 30 mill is not like going to the bookies and gambling it which would be a loss, in buisness sense a loss is the difference between outgoings and income, however it could be the RIFC is run on a different basis due to its lack of genuine lines of credit. I am not sure if it is simply money down the drain or a debt. Could anyone else enlighten us please.

In any case it is worse if it is a straight 30 mill down the drain no? hard cash without write offs.

[doddsy]

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They are discussing the Sevco ( ie football club accounts ) to the period ending 30/6/2015, just published. They contain all the information that was in RIFC accounts ( the holding company ) for the same period that were published in December.

The only major difference is the accumulated losses figure which has been reduced by pumping up the goodwill value of RIFC.

Huns and goodwill !

You seem to be saying it is a debt carried over by the Sevco years?

[greenginger]

[QUOTE=doddsy;4628140]

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If you're talking about PMcG's blog, then I don't think he's suggesting that they're £30m in debt - he's saying they've lost £30m which is different.
My problem with his current blogs is that he's discussing a set of accounts that no one has yet seen. Unless I missed it.

Like CWG I no longer even bother looking at JJ's site.[/QUOTE

Don't get me wrong I am no accountant but making a loss of 30 mill is not like going to the bookies and gambling it which would be a loss, in buisness sense a loss is the difference between outgoings and income, however it could be the RIFC is run on a different basis due to its lack of genuine lines of credit. I am not sure if it is simply money down the drain or a debt. Could anyone else enlighten us please.

In any case it is worse if it is a straight 30 mill down the drain no? hard cash without write offs.

I'm pretty sure its a straight £ 30 million trading loss, but they had a £ 22 million share issue cushion to start with and that's all gone.

They need to get their income up or their costs down, a bit like ourselves and every other club in the country.

[CropleyWasGod]

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You seem to be saying it is a debt carried over by the Sevco years?

It's not a debt. It's the accumulated losses since Day 1.

What the debt actually is, is difficult to ascertain. The latest management accounts, as pointed out on here, had no Balance Sheet.

[doddsy]

[QUOTE=greenginger;4628147]

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I'm pretty sure its a straight £ 30 million trading loss, but they had a £ 22 million share issue cushion to start with and that's all gone.

They need to get their income up or their costs down, a bit like ourselves and every other club in the country.

I'm no accountant as I said previously but the 22 mill cushion takes the heat off greatly. I was'nt aware of that.

[doddsy]

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It's not a debt. It's the accumulated losses since Day 1.

What the debt actually is, is difficult to ascertain. The latest management accounts, as pointed out on here, had no Balance Sheet.