Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[hibs0666]

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Where are you quoting from?

Lord Nimmo Smith judgement, February 2013.

[jacomo]

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Where are you quoting from?

This is from the Nimmo Smith judgement. Which treated the EBTs as separate to the players' employment contracts.

This has now been widely discredited as a political fudge. The 'common sense' judgement on BTC says that these EBTs were used to pay the players as part of their contract.

[jacomo]

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Lord Nimmo Smith judgement, February 2013.

You beat me to it!

[hibs0666]

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If above correct - no reason to doubt - the recent court ruling (subject to SC appeal) has blown it out the water and is now open to scrutiny and legal process.

Its out now and every one involved will be running for cover. The severest penalty must be imposed and until then, there is no way I'm moving on and forgetting the antics of Rangers Football Club!

How much more severe can you get than putting the club into liquidation plus potential jail time for many of the actors involved?

[hibs0666]

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This is from the Nimmo Smith judgement. Which treated the EBTs as separate to the players' employment contracts.

This has now been widely discredited as a political fudge. The 'common sense' judgement on BTC says that these EBTs were used to pay the players as part of their contract.

The question that was raised concerned player registrations, and I don't see how that particular part of the LNS judgment is affected by the big tax case judgement.

[CropleyWasGod]

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How much more severe can you get than putting the club into liquidation plus potential jail time for many of the actors involved?

Putting Rangers into liquidation isn't an option. That could only happen as the result of commercial factors.

[HappyAsHellas]

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How much more severe can you get than putting the club into liquidation plus potential jail time for many of the actors involved?

Nobody "put" them into liquidation, that was self inflicted due to their rather illegal financial goings on. Anyone found guilty of breaking laws normally finds themselves in court, so again, nobody "done" this to them. They have knowingly cheated every other team in the land for a decade or so totally aware of their actions. Perhaps you think Stefan Klos would have signed without the £2,000,000 EBT? Personally I think there's no danger he'd have signed without it - the same goes for many others. We are talking about sporting integrity here - and our game needs cleaned up from top to bottom so the punter knows it's a level playing field.

[hibs0666]

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Nobody "put" them into liquidation, that was self inflicted due to their rather illegal financial goings on. Anyone found guilty of breaking laws normally finds themselves in court, so again, nobody "done" this to them. They have knowingly cheated every other team in the land for a decade or so totally aware of their actions. Perhaps you think Stefan Klos would have signed without the £2,000,000 EBT? Personally I think there's no danger he'd have signed without it - the same goes for many others. We are talking about sporting integrity here - and our game needs cleaned up from top to bottom so the punter knows it's a level playing field.

OK, so the entity that cheated is no longer in being. What more are you proposing that we do to that entity in the name of sporting integrity?

[ano hibby]

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He is not allowed to take money out of SA. It was part of his settlement with the revenue that all his money was brought back to SA and it stays there.


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Ok ta. So how did he think he could invest in The Rangers then if his wealth is land locked?

[jacomo]

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The question that was raised concerned player registrations, and I don't see how that particular part of the LNS judgment is affected by the big tax case judgement.

Because Rangers were arguing that the EBTs were not used to pay players to play for Rangers. SDM just set them up to be nice, in the way a kindly uncle might set up a trust for his nephews.

This allowed LNS to fudge his judgement - yes, Rangers were a bit naughty in not declaring them (hence the fine) but they weren't gaining an unfair sporting advantage.

The BTC judgement exposes this all as patent rubbish. The EBTs were used to pay players for their services - 'common sense'.

[JeMeSouviens]

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OK, so the entity that cheated is no longer in being. What more are you proposing that we do to that entity in the name of sporting integrity?

Void the titles they won whilst cheating. Simples.

[hibs0666]

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Putting Rangers into liquidation isn't an option. That could only happen as the result of commercial factors.

Thanks for clarifying. The point remains that the cheating entity is no longer, and many of the principals involved are looking at jail time. Seems like a fair outcome for past transgressions to me.

[hibs0666]

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Void the titles they won whilst cheating. Simples.

Anything but simples. For example does that mean that we have have to return payments for European performance to UEFA because one of our entrants was there illegally?

[Treadstone]

Judging by some of the tweets coming from journos this Chuckles v Rangers court case is a cracker.

[MrSmith]

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OK, so the entity that cheated is no longer in being. What more are you proposing that we do to that entity in the name of sporting integrity?

Again, the new ruling (subject to SC appeal) has changed all this and we have to go back to fix the now and undo all agreements in principle. All of what was agreed previously, has to be scrutinised and the 'fudge' made transparent with those actors being jailed for fraud/misappropriation or whatever occurred. It needs done and if you think about this, Rangers fans would get a lot of closure and most probably their club back instead of the circus we have now. Getting Rangers back with a payment plan to pay off the tax/NI and the titles expunged would be most fitting and I for one, would welcome this turn of events.

Resurrect and make the original team before liquidation, accountable and responsible for their cheating while allowing them to start again in our leagues to wear the dishonour in order to prove they are sorry!

[Treadstone]

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Anything but simples. For example does that mean that we have have to return payments for European performance to UEFA because one of our entrants was there illegally?

Who is 'we' in this instance?

[JeMeSouviens]

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Anything but simples. For example does that mean that we have have to return payments for European performance to UEFA because one of our entrants was there illegally?

I doubt it, but the cheating is already established, so if they want to come after the money, what difference does it make?

[JimBHibees]

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Who is 'we' in this instance?

[JeMeSouviens]

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Thanks for clarifying. The point remains that the cheating entity is no longer, and many of the principals involved are looking at jail time. Seems like a fair outcome for past transgressions to me.

The only principal involved with the cheating entity facing jail time is Craig Whyte, and ironically enough he's the one that put a stop to the EBT cheating!

[Kato]

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How much more severe can you get than putting the club into liquidation plus potential jail time for many of the actors involved?

Being liquidated wasn't a punishment. It was the natural result of spending way, way above their means and not paying their dues.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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Thanks for clarifying. The point remains that the cheating entity is no longer, and many of the principals involved are looking at jail time. Seems like a fair outcome for past transgressions to me.

They dafties still believe they are the same club with the same history (A proud history and tradition, if you read their last statement saying that the SPFL should no longer have any further investigations).......... So easy, strip them of their "titles", remove all that proud history.....

Cheats plain and simple

[Ozyhibby]

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Thanks for clarifying. The point remains that the cheating entity is no longer, and many of the principals involved are looking at jail time. Seems like a fair outcome for past transgressions to me.

Who is facing jail time from the EBT era? Enlighten me.


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[Kato]

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OK, so the entity that cheated is no longer in being

It is in being, merely in liquidation.

[Ozyhibby]

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Judging by some of the tweets coming from journos this Chuckles v Rangers court case is a cracker.

They are venturing into Club/Company territory as a defence against paying Greens fees. They better be careful that the judge does not rule they are one and the same.
The Sevco QC has already had to explain to the judge that the Club is a continuous body that exists separately from the company. I can just imagine the judge looking over his specs at that point.


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[Hibee87]

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They are venturing into Club/Company territory as a defence against paying Greens fees. They better be careful that the judge does not rule they are one and the same.
The Sevco QC has already had to explain to the judge that the Club is a continuous body that exists separately from the company. I can just imagine the judge looking over his specs at that point.


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Any links to where your geting this?

[Ozyhibby]

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Any links to where your geting this?

Follow James Doleman or STVGrant on twitter


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[Ozyhibby]

@jamesdoleman: Wolffe for RIFC, cites Lord Nimmo Smith stating "The club has an existence independent of the corporate entity that owns it."


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[Ozyhibby]

@STVGrant: Lord Doherty asks whether the club v company debate is one he can deal with without evidence.


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[Hibee87]

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Follow James Doleman or STVGrant on twitter


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Cheers

[Ozyhibby]

@STVGrant: Lord Doherty: there are two arguments. It could be that the club is a club; or that it is a limited company


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