Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not seen anything that indicates the SFA are moving on this at all - which is unsurprising as the guy at the top is the same one who was in the room when the tax/sport cheating plan was put into place.

Ogilvie has to go.

Wonder what the HFC official position is on this?

Have to say that Clumpany was bang on: oh for a Turnbull Hutton character to step forward and represent the views publicly of the many fans who have seen the last 10+ years as a charade of a competition. Somehow, I feel the blazers will close ranks and the calls for action will be left for people on the internet, whose view of this will be written off as them having an agenda or simply that they're obsessed.

Listening to the rumours and reading between the lines of what happened last time this was visited, the SPL with Aberdeen, ourselves, Celtic and Dundee United to the fore, thought that getting the LNS commission set up would do the business and the Old Huns' honours won during the EBT era would be stripped. However, they didn't reckon with the wily ways of the SFA, including actual guilty Hun Ogilvie and arch-Hun appeaser Regan who effectively neutered the whole thing by severely limiting the terms of reference and providing an extremely pro-Hun interpretation of their rules and registration procedures to LNS.

Basically the whole thing was a stitch up to ward off the Hun lynch mob. It seems that the main device they used to do the stitching, the perceived legality of EBTs, may also be the device that unpicks the whole thing in light of the new Court of Session judgement.

But we need the SPL clubs to have the balls to go for a rematch. That's going to be greatly helped if we can find a way to express our support for it publically. Any ideas, anyone?

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm quite chilled out about the stripping of titles. I don't really see what is to be gained by going back in time and taking them away.

All of the titles gained during that period are tainted in my eyes, so every boast a Rangers fan makes, ever, about the numbers of titles they have won or how many stars they have on their shirts will forever be tainted.

It didn't need to be this way for them. They could have volunteered to hand back their dodgy titles. That would have left them with the sizeable number of trophies they had won previously and then all of the ones they will win in future completely unquestionable. And investigations could be made into the trophies won by other clubs that the whataboutery loving Rangers fans - correctly - point out should also be scrapped.

The past 16 years or so will go down as one of the most shameful in Scottish football history. We haven't qualified for a major international competition and a large number of our domestic trophies have been affected by financial doping whilst our limp authorities dithered about what to do about them.

I agree with aspects of the Rangers statement yesterday. The worst thing for Scottish football to do now would be to bicker for the next 5 years about what titles should be taken away, and we SHOULD all move on. But there was not a shred of remorse in that statement and for that reason we cannot move on. There is nothing remorseful or even remotely self-aware about a club 5 points clear at the top of the league and with 4x the wage budget of their nearest challengers that needs £2.5 million extra external funding to finish the season.

Rangers remain the biggest problem in Scottish football an probably always will be.

Personally I couldn't care less whether they're remorseful, contrite, humble, angry, defiant or whatever. I just want the rules applied as if it was any other club. Doesn't seem too much to ask?

[greenginger]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/1..._club_affairs/


Rangers board proposing a motion to strip Ashley of his voting rights at their AGM.

Come on Mike, take them to court again, High court in London of course with plenty very expensive legal high rollers to pay.

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Personally I couldn't care less whether they're remorseful, contrite, humble, angry, defiant or whatever. I just want the rules applied as if it was any other club. Doesn't seem too much to ask?

So what are the rules on retrospectively removing titles for financial doping in Scottish football?

Rangers will probably be able to point at a flimsy SFA/SPL/SPFL rule book and claim - because of the flimsiness of these rules with some justification - that they "did nothing wrong" or "were punished enough". We can then spend the next 10 years paying lawyers to sort out in legal terms whether or not this is the case.

I'd prefer for us to get a watertight set of rules in place that ALL of the clubs understand, accept and respect without trying every trick in the book to get round them. And if there was evidence of contrition from Rangers then I'd be happy to work towards that. Instead they are their moronic, belligerent old selves and that will lead to constant aggro with Scottish football constantly arguing about past indiscretions instead of everyone working together towards a better future.

I just want a fair playing field where everyone knows the rules and the best team wins.

We need to move on - their attitude will stop us from doing so.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/1..._club_affairs/


Rangers board proposing a motion to strip Ashley of his voting rights at their AGM.

Come on Mike, take them to court again, High court in London of course with plenty very expensive legal high rollers to pay.

Is this a deliberate New Hun strategy to get to admin but it be Ashley's "fault"?

[Spike Mandela]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So what are the rules on retrospectively removing titles for financial doping in Scottish football?

Rangers will probably be able to point at a flimsy SFA/SPL/SPFL rule book and claim - because of the flimsiness of these rules with some justification - that they "did nothing wrong" or "were punished enough". We can then spend the next 10 years paying lawyers to sort out in legal terms whether or not this is the case.

I'd prefer for us to get a watertight set of rules in place that ALL of the clubs understand, accept and respect without trying every trick in the book to get round them. And if there was evidence of contrition from Rangers then I'd be happy to work towards that. Instead they are their moronic, belligerent old selves and that will lead to constant aggro with Scottish football constantly arguing about past indiscretions instead of everyone working together towards a better future.

I just want a fair playing field where everyone knows the rules and the best team wins.

We need to move on - their attitude will stop us from doing so.

Why do the football authorities need rules on the misuse of tax schemes when the courts reach a studied and legal conlusion of guilt or otherwise?

As for retrospective sanction or punishment or in the likely (non) punishment of the SFA or SPFL there are always areas of discretion they could use in any circumstance if they so wished or when it suits them.

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/1..._club_affairs/

Rangers board proposing a motion to strip Ashley of his voting rights at their AGM.
Come on Mike, take them to court again, High court in London of course with plenty very expensive legal high rollers to pay.

Old news.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Notice of Rangers AGM. According to Twitter, resolution 11 seeks to remove Ashley's voting rights.

https://t.co/hHCyQkbTNT

[greenginger]

The SFA/SPFL rules say all players earnings and financial information have to be on their playing contracts or they are not properly registered.

Sevco have argued the EBTs were not wages but loans and did not have to be on the playing contracts.

Three high court judges have now said the EBT payments were wages.

Sevco now say its time to move on, we've all suffered enough.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So what are the rules on retrospectively removing titles for financial doping in Scottish football?

Rangers will probably be able to point at a flimsy SFA/SPL/SPFL rule book and claim - because of the flimsiness of these rules with some justification - that they "did nothing wrong" or "were punished enough". We can then spend the next 10 years paying lawyers to sort out in legal terms whether or not this is the case.

I'd prefer for us to get a watertight set of rules in place that ALL of the clubs understand, accept and respect without trying every trick in the book to get round them. And if there was evidence of contrition from Rangers then I'd be happy to work towards that. Instead they are their moronic, belligerent old selves and that will lead to constant aggro with Scottish football constantly arguing about past indiscretions instead of everyone working together towards a better future.

I just want a fair playing field where everyone knows the rules and the best team wins.

We need to move on - their attitude will stop us from doing so.

I take your point regarding the ambivalence of the rules but when wee clubs are thrown out of the cup for having a player's registration signed once rather than twice, it doesn't seem to be that big a stretch to assume that results should not be allowed to stand when a big club has been found guilty of actually wilfully breaking registration rules to secure an advantage.

It's practically impossible to retrospectively work out what would've happened had they been disqualified on day 1, but at the very least, those competitions they won while cheating should be expunged from the record books.

They might moan about it but if justice is seen to be done, we will all eventually move on.

[Glesgahibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So what are the rules on retrospectively removing titles for financial doping in Scottish football?

Rangers will probably be able to point at a flimsy SFA/SPL/SPFL rule book and claim - because of the flimsiness of these rules with some justification - that they "did nothing wrong" or "were punished enough". We can then spend the next 10 years paying lawyers to sort out in legal terms whether or not this is the case.

I'd prefer for us to get a watertight set of rules in place that ALL of the clubs understand, accept and respect without trying every trick in the book to get round them. And if there was evidence of contrition from Rangers then I'd be happy to work towards that. Instead they are their moronic, belligerent old selves and that will lead to constant aggro with Scottish football constantly arguing about past indiscretions instead of everyone working together towards a better future.

I just want a fair playing field where everyone knows the rules and the best team wins.

We need to move on - their attitude will stop us from doing so.

As I said earlier,players earnings registered with the sfa at the time are now confirmed to be false(according to the courts)
This means these players were in eligible!
everything else is void of the argument,it really is that simple!
No drama,no discussion and no debate.
Rules have been PROVEN! To be broken and there is no way out.
All games these players played in will now be awarded to the other team 3-0.

[Treadstone]

The bloke who writes the waitingfortax blog is on Sportsound tonight. Currently on Twitter he is a Hun and a Fenian.

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why do the football authorities need rules on the misuse of tax schemes when the courts reach a studied and legal conlusion of guilt or otherwise?

As for retrospective sanction or punishment or in the likely (non) punishment of the SFA or SPFL there are always areas of discretion they could use in any circumstance if they so wished or when it suits them.

I think they need to have rules on the misuse of tax schemes because clubs misuse tax schemes. This gives some teams an unfair advantage and some a disadvantage.

They need to clarify what this actually means within Scottish football, such as "any competitions found to have been won whilst a club operated a scheme found to be unlawful will be deleted from the record/ awarded to 2nd place in that competition" or whatever they choose to do.


I hate areas of discretion on matters like these. It is the abuse of discretion that has allowed this situation to develop, what with the cosy relationships enjoyed between the SFA and Rangers. Discretion is great if you have people with a shred of integrity but we're relying on people like Campbell Ogilvie FFS.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The bloke who writes the waitingfortax blog is on Sportsound tonight. Currently on Twitter he is a Hun and a Fenian.

Guy who makes living defending tax avoidance suggests there might be a defence against this tax avoidance. Shockerooni!

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The bloke who writes the waitingfortax blog is on Sportsound tonight. Currently on Twitter he is a Hun and a Fenian.

Oh good. That's all we need. Another Rangers apologist, only this time one who can string two words together and is completely aware of his own star qualities. "I’m a Queen’s Counsel specialising in the field of tax. Although that fact doesn’t make me right, it does make my view worth listening to."

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Oh good. That's all we need. Another Rangers apologist, only this time one who can string two words together and is completely aware of his own star qualities. "I’m a Queen’s Counsel specialising in the field of tax. Although that fact doesn’t make me right, it does make my view worth listening to."

It's quite unbelievable how desperate the Beeb's sports dept are to whitewash the Huns' crimes. I get why the tabloids would do it given they are dependent on the Hun pound but a public broadcaster? Wtf?

[Glesgahibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The SFA/SPFL rules say all players earnings and financial information have to be on their playing contracts or they are not properly registered.

Sevco have argued the EBTs were not wages but loans and did not have to be on the playing contracts.

Three high court judges have now said the EBT payments were wages.

Sevco now say its time to move on, we've all suffered enough.

I think the penny has dropped for sevco
The facts are there now in black and white.
They will try and keep the key/main/real issue under the radar.
the players earned more than was registered,that is all that matters.

[portycabbage]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As the owner of a member of the SPFL and SFA, yep.

Pretty sure Sevco are the member and RIFC are the "owner"-

"Sevco Scotland Ltd was formed on 29 March 2012^[30] as a means for Charles Green to acquire the assets of Rangers FC. Sevco Scotland Ltd (subsequently renamed The Rangers Football Club Ltd) was formed to ensure that if the formation of a new company was required in the event of a CVA being rejected, then the Club's corporate entity would be a Scottish registered company as it has always been. When the CVA failed the assets of The Rangers Football Club Plc (subsequently renamed RFC 2012 plc) were then sold for £5.5 million.^[31][32][33]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership_of_Rangers_F.C.

[ekhibee]

Roger Mitchell is on sportsound and he's a jobby.

[happiehibbie]

Or is he saying what the SFA SPL etc etc are thinking


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Treadstone]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Roger Mitchell is on sportsound and he's a jobby.

The former chief executive of the SPL "cheating happens all over the world, move on". No wonder Scottish football is in dire straits.

[magpie1892]

Not one peep of any of this on Reporting Scotland tonight.

Sickening.

[Glesgahibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The former chief executive of the SPL "cheating happens all over the world, move on". No wonder Scottish football is in dire straits.

Guy txt the show stating he has paid money to watch matches that were rigged.
his reply was "there's all sorts happening all over the world""look what's happening in Russia"
As for x players managers saying"games were won on the park fair and square"what about the punter who paid to see this,who without,there careers would never have happened?

[ekhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The former chief executive of the SPL "cheating happens all over the world, move on". No wonder Scottish football is in dire straits.

Good point. He was a useless, ineffective little numpty when he was chief executive, and that says a lot about what I think of his opinions on the state of Scottish football.

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The former chief executive of the SPL "cheating happens all over the world, move on". No wonder Scottish football is in dire straits.

So he admits it was cheating at least.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Pretty sure Sevco are the member and RIFC are the "owner"-

"Sevco Scotland Ltd was formed on 29 March 2012^[30] as a means for Charles Green to acquire the assets of Rangers FC. Sevco Scotland Ltd (subsequently renamed The Rangers Football Club Ltd) was formed to ensure that if the formation of a new company was required in the event of a CVA being rejected, then the Club's corporate entity would be a Scottish registered company as it has always been. When the CVA failed the assets of The Rangers Football Club Plc (subsequently renamed RFC 2012 plc) were then sold for £5.5 million.^[31][32][33]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership_of_Rangers_F.C.

Rangers are the member club. Their owner is TRFC Ltd.

Ps that Wikipedia article is written by someone with an agenda

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Good point. He was a useless, ineffective little numpty when he was chief executive, and that says a lot about what I think of his opinions on the state of Scottish football.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So he admits it was cheating at least.

So, everybody cheat, the world will be a better place for the best cheats at least. Way beyond tiny Scottish football but when it comes to defending the indefensible we definitely punch above our weight, makes you wonder about how many SFA snouts were in the FIF/EUFA trough that we are yet to hear about. Are we seeing defences being got in early?

[hibernia_inn]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The former chief executive of the SPL "cheating happens all over the world, move on". No wonder Scottish football is in dire straits.

David Farrell ‏@davidfarrellfaz 8m8 minutes ago

Roger Mitchell, the man who knocked back £40m from Sky in favour of a deal with Setanta and SPL TV!

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

David Farrell ‏@davidfarrellfaz 8m8 minutes ago

Roger Mitchell, the man who knocked back £40m from Sky in favour of a deal with Setanta and SPL TV!

Is this the guy who cornered the market in Sinclair C5's with 8 track cassette players pre installed but was only willing to sell them to households who could prove they had Betamax Video players installed in every room?

[ehf]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So, everybody cheat, the world will be a better place for the best cheats at least. Way beyond tiny Scottish football but when it comes to defending the indefensible we definitely punch above our weight, makes you wonder about how many SFA snouts were in the FIF/EUFA trough that we are yet to hear about. Are we seeing defences being got in early?

there are close parallels here with the Russian athletics doping scandal, which (amongst other things) has rendered the London 2012 Olympics a hollow mockery.

On any rational analysis, the cheating Russian athletes should be stripped of their medals and Russia should be banned from Rio 2016. But it won't happen because there are too many vested interests at stake. Even Lord Coe is equivocating.

The reality is that integrity no longer counts for anything in top-level sport.

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

there are close parallels here with the Russian athletics doping scandal, which (amongst other things) has rendered the London 2012 Olympics a hollow mockery.

On any rational analysis, the cheating Russian athletes should be stripped of their medals and Russia should be banned from Rio 2016. But it won't happen because there are too many vested interests at stake. Even Lord Coe is equivocating.

The reality is that integrity no longer counts for anything in top-level sport.

It's not as if Lord Coe, and the companies associated with him and the Olympic venture have anything to hide?