Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Kato]

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Players have the side letter to protect them.

I'm unsure as what the side letter protects against. If it protects them from paying tax on any monies earned via an EBT then so be it. That then also opens up a can of worms for their lawyers/agents as knowingly signing such a contract is against SFA rules.

[Glesgahibby]

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Their CVA wiped that tax debt.

Only the tax debt legally owed at the time

[Ozyhibby]

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Do you think there is the appetite for that?
This is a precedent, nothing more. Bar dipping their beaks into the Oldco Creditors Pot, HMRC are now finished with Rangers.

This legal ruling will be used to bash much bigger fish over the head with backdated tax demands though as always HMRC will run shy of taking on the real monsters like Vodafone who seem to sort their tax avoidance out by taking the Chancellor of the Exchequer for lunch.

Similar scenario.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...x-demands-hmrc


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[JimBHibees]

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“Furthermore, so far as the footballers are concerned, at least, it seems to us that if bonuses had not been paid they might well have taken their services elsewhere. We realise that the fifth respondent [RFC 2012] was in, potentially, a difficult financial position, competing for good players in an international market where other countries may not have the same rigorous approach to taxation as the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, the law is clear: the payments made in respect of footballers were in our view derived from their employment and thus the payments were emoluments or earnings.”

Important paragraph from judgement. They cheated to get better players.


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Pretty sure there was a quote from David Murray saying that was exactly the reason for the scheme. In saying that I am not sure how that worked in Billy Dodds case.

[JimBHibees]

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Nothing to the new club but makes a mockery of the Lord nimmo smith hearings.
There is nobody left to appeal.


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Agree. Carpet, brush, under.

[Glesgahibby]

Question!
Two possible answers!
How many times have we beaten rangers 3-0
since 2001

[AndyM_1875]

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Similar scenario.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...x-demands-hmrc


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I think HMRC have bigger issues to deal with having just been handed an absolute kicking by the Public Accounts Committee.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34717035

[s.a.m]

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Their CVA wiped that tax debt.

Did they not pay up for that before they went under, and so kept themselves in business a wee bit longer? Though my head is wasted with several years of football finance, and initials upon initials - I might have confused that with some other initial they gave in to HMRC on.

[s.a.m]

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@glasgowsgreenw 2m2 minutes ago
Scottish Cup Winners 2008/09

Rangers 0 - 3 Falkirk

[Weststandwanab]

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Wasn't there already a precedent set with Arsenal?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...wsstory.sport9


This was conveniently ignored when it came to Rangers, up until today.

You are correct but Arsenal's resources are so much greater than that of Rangers, as was, it is easier, quicker and cheaper to establish the precedent against Rangers.

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About £60m roughly.
Depends if HMRC want to Perdue them. They would need to prove they were part of the conspiracy. Players have the side letter to protect them.


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And as they will be established as loans will the recipients be pursued for repayment.

[Winston Ingram]

Isn't it amazing how many Sevconians have suddenly remembered that they are a new club?

[Kato]

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Did they not pay up for that before they went under, and so kept themselves in business a wee bit longer? Though my head is wasted with several years of football finance, and initials upon initials - I might have confused that with some other initial they gave in to HMRC on.

They struck a deal to pay it off but didn't cough up.

[s.a.m]

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They struck a deal to pay it of but didn't cough up.

[Kato]

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Isn't it amazing how many Sevconians have suddenly remembered that they are a new club?

Slime is slippery.

[CB_NO3]

See their loss of 7.5 million, does that take in the debt of 5 million to Mash? I am assuming the answer is no but just wanted clarification. If Charles Green wins his court case that could really push them over the edge.

[Ozyhibby]

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I think HMRC have bigger issues to deal with having just been handed an absolute kicking by the Public Accounts Committee.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34717035

Isn't that kicking for not being tough on Tax Evasion?


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[AndyM_1875]

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Isn't that kicking for not being tough on Tax Evasion?


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and being a generally useless dysfunctional organization as many business owners will attest.

[sambajustice]

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Shouldn't Oldco now be stripped of the trophies and titles won while using EBTs?

If so that makes us champions the season we finished 3rd in the mid 90s!

:-D

[Ozyhibby]

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If so that makes us champions the season we finished 3rd in the mid 90s!

:-D

Think EBT's scheme only started in 1999.


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[Ozyhibby]

@alextomo: @CQN yes - this surely places a questionmark over Nimmo Smith's judgement


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[MB62]

STV reporting that HMRC have won their Tax appeal against Rangers

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/r...s-or-earnings/


So, if this is the indeed the case, now they have to decide

Are they Rangers or are they a brand new company with no connection to the old defunct lot?

Interesting

[ballengeich]

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See their loss of 7.5 million, does that take in the debt of 5 million to Mash. I am assuming the answer is no but just wanted clarification. If Charles Green wins his court case that could really push them over the edge.

The debt isn't included in the loss.

The loans were put into the company to cover the loss and allow them to continue trading.

[Just Alf]

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Their CVA wiped that tax debt.

ah well...... was a thought

[Weststandwanab]

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Think EBT's scheme only started in 1999.


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In terms of the Big Tax Case they are dealing with 2001 to 2010.

[Ozyhibby]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/r...mith-ebt-fine/



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[givescotlandfreedom]

A great opportunity to pay the £60m owed to the tax man and pretend they're oldco with an admission of officially cheating their way to honours.

[givescotlandfreedom]

As it says on the tin. Now we officially know they've been cheating for various honours, they need to have them stripped from their (now stopped) history. Even if not given to another club, Rangers didn't earn them.

[Mikey09]

I can hear the stampede of backtracking right now from there horrible fans, Glasgow media and the welts on Sportsound!!

[CraigHibee]

They are indeed a NEW team,dont let the cavemen from the west tell you any differently, i think it's their low intelligence level which makes them believe they are the same team.

its like your beloved pet labrador, sadly died so you get a new one, you may call it the same name however, it is infact NEW, it isn't the same dog

dirty smelly huns

[CropleyWasGod]

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And as they will be established as loans will the recipients be pursued for repayment.

Don't think that's the case. The judgement establishes the payments as emoluments, not loans. Therefore they can't be repayable.