#hibileaks/Hands On Hibs/BuyHibs (Merged)

***grunt*** · 19-10-2014 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by marinello59

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I'd agree with that. I would question his claim that there is any sort of groundswell building behind this group but as you say that's simply his own opinion.

It's an opinion presented as fact, and like the HoH claims of financial skulduggery, it is presented with no evidence. I think this guy is out to make trouble, supporting his pals at HoH with airtime in a national newspaper. The questions about "where's the money gone" can be easily answered - have been answered by people on this very thread - but rather than study the real facts presented in the financial statements, he has continued to sow seeds of doubt.

I suspect this is exactly the sort of negative rubbish that Leeann was talking about in her post. He's stirring it. IMO.

**Mikey** · 19-10-2014 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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Don't think so. Holyrood Boxing Gym tweeted that STF has "raped" Hibs.

This may be of interest to them..........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29678989

**~~Peevemor~~** · 19-10-2014 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by grunt

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It's an opinion presented as fact, and like the HoH claims of financial skulduggery, it is presented with no evidence. I think this guy is out to make trouble, supporting his pals at HoH with airtime in a national newspaper. The questions about "where's the money gone" can be easily answered - have been answered by people on this very thread - but rather than study the real facts presented in the financial statements, he has continued to sow seeds of doubt.

I suspect this is exactly the sort of negative rubbish that Leeann was talking about in her post. He's stirring it. IMO.

I hope Hibs see fit to at least respond to this.

***Eyrie*** · 19-10-2014 10:08 AM

I think Hibs must be very careful how they handle this. They won't want to give the self-styled Hands On Hibs any credibility by responding to baseless claims of financial impropriety and any legal action to stop the smears could end up being a heavy handed PR own goal.

**oregonhibby** · 19-10-2014 10:12 AM

So how long do you allow this stuff to be out there. I would see no problem with action that stops these rumours because the longer they remain unchecked it plays into the hands of those who chose to make the statements. I understand this was done to one journalist back in the day.

**SunshineOnLeith** · 19-10-2014 10:12 AM

The Record won't run with this, Hibs, unlike Rangers, aren't big enough news to justify any sort of sustained campaign. And, unlike Hearts, there's zero evidence of any wrongdoing, just a few idiots making up nonsense.

No need for Hibs to do anything.

**~~southsider~~** · 19-10-2014 10:24 AM

We used have at least one big money buy each season. Keith, Murdo, McGinlay (when we bought him back) Jackson etc. These guys were all bought by Hibs for £400,000 +. We have not bought a player for that type of money (or that quality) for a number of years so perhaps these guys are right to ask the question about the money. I have been told, but not sure if true, the debt is £10 million.

**Kaiser1962** · 19-10-2014 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by southsider

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We used have at least one big money buy each season. Keith, Murdo, McGinlay (when we bought him back) Jackson etc. These guys were all bought by Hibs for £400,000 +. We have not bought a player for that type of money (or that quality) for a number of years so perhaps these guys are right to ask the question about the money. I have been told, but not sure if true, the debt is £10 million.

Those were all pre-Bosman signings. The last of those four (McGinlay) was signed 20 years ago next month.

**Mikey** · 19-10-2014 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by southsider

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We used have at least one big money buy each season. Keith, Murdo, McGinlay (when we bought him back) Jackson etc. These guys were all bought by Hibs for £400,000 +. We have not bought a player for that type of money (or that quality) for a number of years so perhaps these guys are right to ask the question about the money. I have been told, but not sure if true, the debt is £10 million.

Was it the same guy who told you about the "Andrew Carnaggie" stuff?

He'll be a wee bit closer this time

**~~southsider~~** · 19-10-2014 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

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Those were all pre-Bosman signings. The last of those four (McGinlay) was signed 20 years ago next month.

Ok but more recently we have taken in about £15 mill in transfer fee's and not bought any players for anything like pre-Bosman fee's. Just asking the question. We upgraded the stadium and have East Mains but these are not paid off.

**Kaiser1962** · 19-10-2014 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by southsider

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Ok but more recently we have taken in about £15 mill in transfer fee's and not bought any players for anything like pre-Bosman fee's. Just asking the question. We upgraded the stadium and have East Mains but these are not paid off.

I understand most of it was used to pay historical debt/loans.

***Jonnyboy*** · 19-10-2014 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Eyrie

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I think Hibs must be very careful how they handle this. They won't want to give the self-styled Hands On Hibs any credibility by responding to baseless claims of financial impropriety and any legal action to stop the smears could end up being a heavy handed PR own goal.

Sorry Eyrie, I disagree. Legal action would be entirely appropriate in my view

Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith

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The Record won't run with this, Hibs, unlike Rangers, aren't big enough news to justify any sort of sustained campaign. And, unlike Hearts, there's zero evidence of any wrongdoing, just a few idiots making up nonsense.

No need for Hibs to do anything.

Sorry SOL, I disagree as the Record have already 'run with it' by allowing their Hibs blogger Jamie Montgomery to publish his blog on their site. The lack of evidence in itself suggests some sort of action ha\s to be taken IMO

***CropleyWasGod*** · 19-10-2014 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by southsider

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Ok but more recently we have taken in about £15 mill in transfer fee's and not bought any players for anything like pre-Bosman fee's. Just asking the question. We upgraded the stadium and have East Mains but these are not paid off.

The financial statements are in the public domain, so I don't see what the issue is.

Unless it's being suggested that they don't tell the true story......

**Mikey** · 19-10-2014 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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The financial statements are in the public domain, so I don't see what the issue is.

Unless it's being suggested that they don't tell the true story......

The more recent ones are in The Vault.......

http://www.hibs.net/forumdisplay.php?37-hibs-net-Vault

**~~southsider~~** · 19-10-2014 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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The financial statements are in the public domain, so I don't see what the issue is.

Unless it's being suggested that they don't tell the true story......

Not suggesting anything but 20 years ago we were quite a big player in the transfer market. Now we dont buy players or even sell players as none of them are good enough. This is why we in a lower league i am sorry to say. Nobody in charge at ER feels responsible for the state of our club. We will never improve until Farmer/Petrie are gone. When my Euromillions numbers come up (and they will !), they will be gone.

**~~Peevemor~~** · 19-10-2014 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by southsider

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We used have at least one big money buy each season. Keith, Murdo, McGinlay (when we bought him back) Jackson etc. These guys were all bought by Hibs for £400,000 +. We have not bought a player for that type of money (or that quality) for a number of years so perhaps these guys are right to ask the question about the money. I have been told, but not sure if true, the debt is £10 million.

Clubs of our size will rarely pay transfer fees (though in recent times we've shelled out for Makalamby, O'Brien, James Collins, Nish and Riordan among other "nominal" fees), because, as we know, players can walk away for nothing at the end of their contract. Pre-Bosman, this wasn't the case - the only players that left for free were either retiring, really crap, or had served the club well and were let go for free toward the end of their career as a gesture of goodwill to help them find another club.

Originally Posted by southsider

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Ok but more recently we have taken in about £15 mill in transfer fee's and not bought any players for anything like pre-Bosman fee's. Just asking the question. We upgraded the stadium and have East Mains but these are not paid off.

If you pay attention to the annual accounts that are published and the accompanying threads on here, it's been pretty easy to follow what's being going on cash wise since the debt peaked at around £18m and the car park was sold. £10m of debt could be about right, given the mortgages are around £8m and we undoubtedly lost a packet last year.

**~~The_Horde~~** · 19-10-2014 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by southsider

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Not suggesting anything but 20 years ago we were quite a big player in the transfer market. Now we dont buy players or even sell players as none of them are good enough. This is why we in a lower league i am sorry to say. Nobody in charge at ER feels responsible for the state of our club. We will never improve until Farmer/Petrie are gone. When my Euromillions numbers come up (and they will !), they will be gone.

That's just a sign of the times unfortunately. No teams in the SPL make big buys anymore unless they've already sold for hefty amounts and even then it's pennies in comparison.

I'm not for a second doubting what these guys say. What I will say is the general consensus (at least from on here) is that nobody will take them seriously until they back up their info with evidence.

I want Petrie and Farmer out as much as the next person but in order for them to gather the movement they require to move forward they're going to have to have proof.

**~~Peevemor~~** · 19-10-2014 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Slenj.=]

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That's just a sign of the times unfortunately. No teams in the SPL make big buys anymore unless they've already sold for hefty amounts and even then it's pennies in comparison.

I'm not for a second doubting what these guys say. What I will say is the general consensus (at least from on here) is that nobody will take them seriously until they back up their info with evidence.

I want Petrie and Farmer out as much as the next person but in order for them to gather the movement they require to move forward they're going to have to have proof.

I am. I'd be astonished if it's not total crap!

**legends of 73** · 19-10-2014 12:19 PM

Hibs boards reply to HOH and their counter reply for those interested

https://twitter.com/handsonhibs/stat...30597552590848

**Dashing Bob S** · 19-10-2014 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by legends of 73

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Hibs boards reply to HOH and their counter reply for those interested

https://twitter.com/handsonhibs/stat...30597552590848

Summary:

HOH: You're *hite.

Board: Naw we're no.

**The Falcon** · 19-10-2014 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by legends of 73

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Hibs boards reply to HOH and their counter reply for those interested

https://twitter.com/handsonhibs/stat...30597552590848

Can someone remind me what the "basic and polite questions" were?

It would seem to me that allegations of impropriety have been made which has been refuted by Rod. So its up to them (HoH or whoever they are) to now offer their evidence that Rod is lying.

PS Rod needs to spell check his mail, or have someone read it for him.

**~~Phil D. Rolls~~** · 19-10-2014 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by bingo70

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The people that will take over after farmer leaves us. He won't be here forever.

**HFC 0-7** · 19-10-2014 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by grunt

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It's an opinion presented as fact, and like the HoH claims of financial skulduggery, it is presented with no evidence. I think this guy is out to make trouble, supporting his pals at HoH with airtime in a national newspaper. The questions about "where's the money gone" can be easily answered - have been answered by people on this very thread - but rather than study the real facts presented in the financial statements, he has continued to sow seeds of doubt.

I suspect this is exactly the sort of negative rubbish that Leeann was talking about in her post. He's stirring it. IMO.

I dont think he is stirring it to be honest. He said in the article that there is no evidence despite people asking to see it. I read it very much as his take on things and no facts. The club needs to respond IMO, and they should respond strongly if these claims are all lies. Its doing nothing to unite the support at the minute and any groups that are spreading lies need shut down quickly.

Club comes out and proves the claims are false - job done. No one will ever give these groups of people the time of day again.

**~~Phil D. Rolls~~** · 19-10-2014 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by legends of 73

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Hibs boards reply to HOH and their counter reply for those interested

https://twitter.com/handsonhibs/stat...30597552590848

Absolute ****ing mentalists.

**SunshineOnLeith** · 19-10-2014 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy

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Sorry SOL, I disagree as the Record have already 'run with it' by allowing their Hibs blogger Jamie Montgomery to publish his blog on their site. The lack of evidence in itself suggests some sort of action ha\s to be taken IMO

The Record haven't published anything actionable or even inflammatory. It's just their regular Hibs blogger writing about something that's going on around Hibs. If they were dedicating their back page to it I'd be concerned but frankly, how many people do we really think read the Hibs blog on the Daily Record website?

The problem nowadays is that people read things on Twitter/Facebook and immediately accept them as fact. Just look at half of the threads on here during any given transfer window for evidence of that. So if people start publicly challenging these tubes, they'll either inadvertently repeat, or allow HoH to repeat, their made up nonsense and the response from HoH will be "Why doesn't the club deny it?", "No smoke without fire" etc. It might seem simple for Hibs to just issue a complete denial, but that just gives the allegations a legitimacy and wider audience that they don't merit.

I'd wager than 80% or more of the people who've read HoH's stuff have came through Hibs.net at some point. So it's worth making it very visible on this site that the people behind Hands on Hibs are stupid, lying charlatans who think that they can convince Hibs fans of financial impropriety on behalf of Sir Tom and Rod Petrie by simply making up fictional stories.

**Joe6-2** · 19-10-2014 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by hfcdavea

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i dont think he is stirring it to be honest. He said in the article that there is no evidence despite people asking to see it. I read it very much as his take on things and no facts. The club needs to respond imo, and they should respond strongly if these claims are all lies. Its doing nothing to unite the support at the minute and any groups that are spreading lies need shut down quickly.

Club comes out and proves the claims are false - job done. No one will ever give these groups of people the time of day again.

this!!!

**The Falcon** · 19-10-2014 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by HFCDaveA

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Club comes out and proves the claims are false - job done. No one will ever give these groups of people the time of day again.

Why is the onus on the club to disprove spurious claims made by others? Surely those making the accusation should be able to support their statement(s) with evidence, or take their claims (with their evidence) to the relevant authorities?

**Kaiser1962** · 19-10-2014 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by The Falcon

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Why is the onus on the club to disprove spurious claims made by others? Surely those making the accusation should be able to support their statement(s) with evidence, or take their claims (with their evidence) to the relevant authorities?

An eminently sensible solution Hugh but, sadly, not likely to happen.