Scottish Independence

[The Harp Awakes]

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Disgusting

Oh dear. Gutter journalism.

[Betty Boop]

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Of course it is.... he's loving this :)

Ahem.... have you, eh, had any more....um.... thoughts?

Yea a definite NO for me.

[Colonel_HFC]

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Don't cry. Or do. Doesn't change much.

[degenerated]

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And it's all someone else's fault. I am looking forward to see who gets the blame if independence happens. It could be quite amusing I suppose.

Thankfully, as you keep reminding us, you'll not be here.

[Colonel_HFC]

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Thankfully, as you keep reminding us, you'll not be here.

But a lot of people will. And, assuming the vote is Yes, it is likely to be a small margin of victory. That means that nearly half the people there will not want these changes.

So yes I am extremely thankful that I will not be there should too many people make a dumb decision. I am glad that I am not there anyway. And I am also glad that I don't need a particular nationality to define myself. It's actually pretty sad that so many people feel the need to have that.

[Moulin Yarns]

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You seen the front page of tomorrow's Herald?

I am on the front page of the Sunday Herald

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Disgusting

You would have to dig up the gutter and look underneath to find where that came from.

Perhaps the Gurkhas who have died in their thousands fighting in our wars for over a century would be entitled to ask where the UKs regard and gratitude for its soldiers was when they had to rely on a TV personality ( the magnificent Joanna Lumley ) and the European court before the UK would listen to their pleas for justice on pensions.

[southsider]

Supprised not one paper had a pic of the banner at the O/O march. About them and KKK. Sick. Made me now a YES man and most likely a few thousand others.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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But a lot of people will. And, assuming the vote is Yes, it is likely to be a small margin of victory. That means that nearly half the people there will not want these changes.

So yes I am extremely thankful that I will not be there should too many people make a dumb decision. I am glad that I am not there anyway. And I am also glad that I don't need a particular nationality to define myself. It's actually pretty sad that so many people feel the need to have that.

Well on your first point that's the bloomin' trouble with democracy mate ..... perhaps we should do away with it. I haven't got the government I have voted for even once since my first vote in 1979.

For most folk nationality matters ...... it does not define you as a person, your individual character does that .. I have English, Welsh and Canadian friends .... we are all proud of our nationality, but that is of utterly no consequence as to why we became. or remain, friends.

You have been pretty coy about which countries hospitality you currently enjoy .... what are their views on nationality and would they correspond with yours I wonder?

A young girl in need of a lung transplant climbed the castle rock a day ago to pin up a Yes sign with her oxygen tubes sticking up her nose from the bottle she had to carry .... her anger at baseless scare stories from BT about cross border transplant services stopping prompted her action .......... perhaps you would like to tell her about her "dumb decision".

[#FromTheCapital]

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But a lot of people will. And, assuming the vote is Yes, it is likely to be a small margin of victory. That means that nearly half the people there will not want these changes.

So yes I am extremely thankful that I will not be there should too many people make a dumb decision. I am glad that I am not there anyway. And I am also glad that I don't need a particular nationality to define myself. It's actually pretty sad that so many people feel the need to have that.

Which is why I think for a referendum, with consequences and change of this magnitude, should require a clear majority victory for it to go through. Instead of the highly possible 51 - 49 split. Imagine trying to set up a newly established country with slightly under half of the population against it. Not the best way to start really. A lot of people will actually want independent Scotland to fail, just so they can say 'told you so'. And yes I know this is democracy before anyone points it out.

[Leith Green]

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Which is why I think for a referendum, with consequences and change of this magnitude, should require a clear majority victory for it to go through. Instead of the highly possible 51 - 49 split. Imagine trying to set up a newly established country with slightly under half of the population against it. Not the best way to start really. A lot of people will actually want independent Scotland to fail, just so they can say 'told you so'. And yes I know this is democracy before anyone points it out.

Thats ludicrous, and utter pish.. In your book the minority would win. You do realise how stupid that is eh?

[#FromTheCapital]

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Thats ludicrous, and utter pish.. In your book the minority would win. You do realise how stupid that is eh?

Calm down dear. A clear majority to win, with perhaps a stipulation that if they got over 50% then another vote would be held within so many years, along with more powers or devo max in the interim. Didn't expect that to be a popular post btw
The main point is that it simply can't be a good thing forming a new country with marginally under half of the population against the change. We'd be starting off as a fractured nation.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Calm down dear. A clear majority to win, with perhaps a stipulation that if they got over 50% then another vote would be held within so many years, along with more powers or devo max in the interim. Didn't expect that to be a popular post btw
The main point is that it simply can't be a good thing forming a new country with marginally under half of the population against the change. We'd be starting off as a fractured nation.

George Robertson and the Scots UKIP guy are saying today that a narrow win for Yes would not be a mandate for independence.
Sorry, but them's the rules. Can't change them just because one doesn't like the outcome.

As a side issue, is it just me that us shocked by how much of a slaver Robertson has become?

[southsider]

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George Robertson and the Scots UKIP guy are saying today that a narrow win for Yes would not be a mandate for independence.
Sorry, but them's the rules. Can't change them just because one doesn't like the outcome.

As a side issue, is it just me that us shocked by how much of a slaver Robertson has become?

Was in today's Herald. Saying YES require 60% for a mandate. Shows how desperate NO are becoming. Great piece by Ian Bell, who is a big Hibs fan, in that paper. Proper journalist.

[Beefster]

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Perhaps the Gurkhas who have died in their thousands fighting in our wars for over a century would be entitled to ask where the UKs regard and gratitude for its soldiers was when they had to rely on a TV personality ( the magnificent Joanna Lumley ) and the European court before the UK would listen to their pleas for justice on pensions.

Pretty low chat and really isn't any better than what the Telegraph did today IMHO. Many folk, including myself, supported the fight to get justice for the Ghurkas for a long time before it became fashionable.

You might find this hard to take but, and it'll even be the case in an independent Scotland, governments don't always do the right thing or listen to their citizens. Aside from that, the UK government isn't the UK any more than Salmond is Scotland.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Calm down dear. A clear majority to win, with perhaps a stipulation that if they got over 50% then another vote would be held within so many years, along with more powers or devo max in the interim. Didn't expect that to be a popular post btw
The main point is that it simply can't be a good thing forming a new country with marginally under half of the population against the change. We'd be starting off as a fractured nation.

For decades the UK has been run by political parties who polled less than 50% of the popular vote and have used that mandate to impose unfair policies and take us into illegal wars. Ask them about PR for example and wait to get spat on.

I have faith that if it is Yes people will come together for the good of Scotland .... I hope the same if its No.

Its one thing worrying about blood on the streets ........... its quite another wishing it so like our friend the Colonel. .... Not accusing you of that by the way FTC.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Pretty low chat and really isn't any better than what the Telegraph did today IMHO. Many folk, including myself, supported the fight to get justice for the Ghurkas for a long time before it became fashionable.

You might find this hard to take but, and it'll even be the case in an independent Scotland, governments don't always do the right thing or listen to their citizens. Aside from that, the UK government isn't the UK any more than Salmond is Scotland.

That's the thing about stuff like that though Beefster ...... It goads people to respond in kind. In this case an attempt at moral blackmail using the armed forces ...... in the context it was used I don't think my point was unreasonable as it happens.

[#FromTheCapital]

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For decades the UK has been run by political parties who polled less than 50% of the popular vote and have used that mandate to impose unfair policies and take us into illegal wars. Ask them about PR for example and wait to get spat on.

I have faith that if it is Yes people will come together for the good of Scotland .... I hope the same if its No.

Its one thing worrying about blood on the streets ........... its quite another wishing it so like our friend the Colonel. .... Not accusing you of that by the way FTC.

Is it not the case the the SNP polled less than 50% and used that mandate to bring this referendum about? Not quite the same as what you're saying but you get the jist.

I hope you're right and people do unite once we are clear how things will pan out. If not then problems lie ahead.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Is it not the case the the SNP polled less than 50% and used that mandate to bring this referendum about? Not quite the same as what you're saying but you get the jist.

I hope you're right and people do unite once we are clear how things will pan out. If not then problems lie ahead.

Yes ...... Things don't always work out badly

I suppose the one thing about this is that there isn't more than one option to split the vote ..... Yes / No ..... Mind you I bet there are a few BT folk who wish they hadn't bumped the Devo Max option now.

[#FromTheCapital]

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Yes ...... Things don't always work out badly

[Hibrandenburg]

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Which is why I think for a referendum, with consequences and change of this magnitude, should require a clear majority victory for it to go through. Instead of the highly possible 51 - 49 split. Imagine trying to set up a newly established country with slightly under half of the population against it. Not the best way to start really. A lot of people will actually want independent Scotland to fail, just so they can say 'told you so'. And yes I know this is democracy before anyone points it out.

So your unhappy that a large minority might have to lump it whilst the small majority get to do things their way. A bit hypocritical considering that's what's been happening in Scotland for the last 300 years, only the boot's been on the other foot.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Yes ...... Things don't always work out badly

I suppose the one thing about this is that there isn't more than one option to split the vote ..... Yes / No ..... Mind you I bet there are a few BT folk who wish they hadn't bumped the Devo Max option now.

I'm some people's heads Devo Max is still on the table if you vote No. The riders of the apocalypse have achieved that if nothing else. Fear works.

[#FromTheCapital]

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So your unhappy that a large minority might have to lump it whilst the small majority get to do things their way. A bit hypocritical considering that's what's been happening in Scotland for the last 300 years, only the boot's been on the other foot.

I'm uncomfortable with the vote appearing to be so close, yes. That's your view. Back in reality, every scot alive today was born as a uk citizen and as such have set their lives and business' up on the rules and regulations set by the uk government. It's not perfect (what country/government is?) but the level of disruption which is likely to be caused by a split of the union is against a lot of peoples wishes, especially with no guarantees or clarity on how things are going to be post split.

[Just Alf]

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I'm some people's heads Devo Max is still on the table if you vote No. The riders of the apocalypse have achieved that if nothing else. Fear works.

The last reiteration of "more powers" was the Calman Commission, the changes which it recommended (some of them anyway) will be delivered in 2015, 8 years after it commenced.

Is that how long we'll be waiting after a "No" ?

Edit: the clock started ticking after the parties agreed it should happen etc (apart from the SNP) .... As so aptly put by William Hague there's not even a cross party agreement as yet, far less a governmental agreement to begin the process... So at the moment the clock's not even wound up to begin it's ticking!

[Phil D. Rolls]

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But a lot of people will. And, assuming the vote is Yes, it is likely to be a small margin of victory. That means that nearly half the people there will not want these changes.

So yes I am extremely thankful that I will not be there should too many people make a dumb decision. I am glad that I am not there anyway. And I am also glad that I don't need a particular nationality to define myself. It's actually pretty sad that so many people feel the need to have that.

Tell me, how do you define yourself? I've got a few ideas, but I doubt you would agree.

ps have you ever lived in Hong Kong?

[Colonel_HFC]

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Well on your first point that's the bloomin' trouble with democracy mate ..... perhaps we should do away with it. I haven't got the government I have voted for even once since my first vote in 1979.

For most folk nationality matters ...... it does not define you as a person, your individual character does that .. I have English, Welsh and Canadian friends .... we are all proud of our nationality, but that is of utterly no consequence as to why we became. or remain, friends.

You have been pretty coy about which countries hospitality you currently enjoy .... what are their views on nationality and would they correspond with yours I wonder?

A young girl in need of a lung transplant climbed the castle rock a day ago to pin up a Yes sign with her oxygen tubes sticking up her nose from the bottle she had to carry .... her anger at baseless scare stories from BT about cross border transplant services stopping prompted her action .......... perhaps you would like to tell her about her "dumb decision".

Just because someone feels strongly about something does not make them right about it. And, yes, I think it is a dumb decision - being sick does not change that.

Just because lots of folk think something is important does not mean that it is.

Being proud of one's nationality is actually a slightly strange thing. What's to be proud of? Being born somewhere... Everyone is born somewhere and it's not an achievement - so why be proud of it? It's no more of an achievement than say having a nose. Although I am glad that I have a nose - it's hardly something I'm "proud" of.

Nationalism is also dumb in my opinion, regardless of where it is. Where I live now is irrelevant - it's not part of the UK anyway.

I also don't care what the people from the country where I live think about nationality. Why would I? That said, if it started becoming extreme and small minded to the extent where they were going to vote for something that would impact many people's lives there (for the worse a I saw it) then I would leave here. Fortunately I don't see anything so significant happening anytime in the near future.

[Colonel_HFC]

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Tell me, how do you define yourself? I've got a few ideas, but I doubt you would agree.

ps have you ever lived in Hong Kong?

I define myself by how I act and what I do/achieve in my life - not where I happened to be born (that was random and is absolutely not an achievement).

[Moulin Yarns]

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I'm some people's heads Devo Max is still on the table if you vote No. The riders of the apocalypse have achieved that if nothing else. Fear works.

They promised us the earth, but all I want is our land

[#FromTheCapital]

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Just because someone feels strongly about something does not make them right about it. And, yes, I think it is a dumb decision - being sick does not change that.

Just because lots of folk think something is important does not mean that it is.

Being proud of one's nationality is actually a slightly strange thing. What's to be proud of? Being born somewhere... Everyone is born somewhere and it's not an achievement - so why be proud of it? It's no more of an achievement than say having a nose. Although I am glad that I have a nose - it's hardly something I'm "proud" of.

Nationalism is also dumb in my opinion, regardless of where it is. Where I live now is irrelevant - it's not part of the UK anyway.

I also don't care what the people from the country where I live think about nationality. Why would I? That said, if it started becoming extreme and small minded to the extent where they were going to vote for something that would impact many people's lives there (for the worse a I saw it) then I would leave here. Fortunately I don't see anything so significant happening anytime in the near future.

Agree completely.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm uncomfortable with the vote appearing to be so close, yes. That's your view. Back in reality, every scot alive today was born as a uk citizen and as such have set their lives and business' up on the rules and regulations set by the uk government. It's not perfect (what country/government is?) but the level of disruption which is likely to be caused by a split of the union is against a lot of peoples wishes, especially with no guarantees or clarity on how things are going to be post split.

This thing about disruption.

For most of us, our daily lives would be virtually unchanged. Any changes that there are would be gradual and almost imperceptible.