Scottish Independence

[marinello59]

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It's being touted as an educational resource, so I'm hoping there's some substance to it, rather than the scaremongering and political oneupmanship that's going on.

Good find. That's my bed time reading sorted.

[#FromTheCapital]

Are they dead yet?

Whoops wrong thread ;-)

[The Harp Awakes]

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Decent piece from the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ats?CMP=twt_gu

SCOTLAND LIKELY TO CHOOSE INDEPENDENCE FOREIGN DIPLOMATS BELIEVE

An interesting article and editorial particularly given it is the Guardian.

You really do wonder about the strategy of the 'No' campaign. It seems to entirely focus on issuing threats and negative press statements to the media. I think if they continue with the same strategy in the lead up to the referendum and fail to make a positive case for remaining in the Union, they will continue to lose ground.

If the respective campaigns were judged as a boxing match, the ref would be about to count 10 and announce 'down and out' for the 'No' campaign.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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SCOTLAND LIKELY TO CHOOSE INDEPENDENCE FOREIGN DIPLOMATS BELIEVE

An interesting article and editorial particularly given it is the Guardian.

You really do wonder about the strategy of the 'No' campaign. It seems to entirely focus on issuing threats and negative press statements to the media. I think if they continue with the same strategy in the lead up to the referendum and fail to make a positive case for remaining in the Union, they will continue to lose ground.

If the respective campaigns were judged as a boxing match, the ref would be about to count 10 and announce 'down and out' for the 'No' campaign.

I think their negativity has an audience, and their position in the polls hasn't been effected by their declarations.

Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.


John Kenneth Galbraith

The Scots are finding it hard to take this decision without a big boy to take the blame. Hell mend anyone that ever complains about England again.

[lucky]

Alex Salmond was very poor today at the Stuc conference. Announced 3 year funding for union learning but it's frozen at the rate it was 4 years ago. Told a delegate during the Q&A that iScotland will build rUK warships and that there will be a currency union. He was accused of not answering the questions. I'm not a fan of his but he is generally a excellent public speaker but he did not seem interested. Johann Lamont's turn tomorrow. Hopefully she will deliver a positive case rather than Nat bashing

[marinello59]

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/271749-g...ferendum-poll/

Another poll showing that the gap between Yes and No is closing. It also shows that those definitely intending to vote has risen from 65% to 74%. Despite my reservations about the quality of the debate it looks like people are engaqing with it. Encouraging stuff.

[Gus]

I have read most of the white paper (flicked) and it does all look very impressive and the advert on the TV is very good and will no doubt stir the emotions of the nationalists, there is no plan B for the outcome if Scotland goes independent and the things widely mentioned in the debate come into play. Salmond just beats his drum about the anti Westminster and the YES voters will be nursing a semi at some of the p1sh he comes out with imo.

I personally will be voting no but I would of voted yes if I thought it was the best for Scotland long term, but I don't.

[jakeshibs]

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I have read most of the white paper (flicked) and it does all look very impressive and the advert on the TV is very good and will no doubt stir the emotions of the nationalists, there is no plan B for the outcome if Scotland goes independent and the things widely mentioned in the debate come into play. Salmond just beats his drum about the anti Westminster and the YES voters will be nursing a semi at some of the p1sh he comes out with imo.

I personally will be voting no but I would of voted yes if I thought it was the best for Scotland long term, but I don't.

I agree with most of the above and going the same way. There are far to many unknowns to risk for me and my families future.

[Mon Dieu4]

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I have read most of the white paper (flicked) and it does all look very impressive and the advert on the TV is very good and will no doubt stir the emotions of the nationalists, there is no plan B for the outcome if Scotland goes independent and the things widely mentioned in the debate come into play. Salmond just beats his drum about the anti Westminster and the YES voters will be nursing a semi at some of the p1sh he comes out with imo.

I personally will be voting no but I would of voted yes if I thought it was the best for Scotland long term, but I don't.

Not everyone that will vote yes will pay attention to the white paper, Im voting yes and couldn't care less what is in it, if we become Independent then there will be an election to see who will run the country, the white paper is a wish list that will have you think the streets will be paved with gold on the flip side the better together lot would have you think we will become a third world country

i think the truth lies in between and that we will go along just fine as we are just now but making our own decisions with a government we actually vote for

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I agree with most of the above and going the same way. There are far to many unknowns to risk for me and my families future.

As opposed to what is known about the Union? An arrangement that has hardly worked to our advantage in the last 40 years. Lets face it, if it was any good, we'd never have voted for Devolution.

[JimBHibees]

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I have read most of the white paper (flicked) and it does all look very impressive and the advert on the TV is very good and will no doubt stir the emotions of the nationalists, there is no plan B for the outcome if Scotland goes independent and the things widely mentioned in the debate come into play. Salmond just beats his drum about the anti Westminster and the YES voters will be nursing a semi at some of the p1sh he comes out with imo.

I personally will be voting no but I would of voted yes if I thought it was the best for Scotland long term, but I don't.

The bottom line is that we will be self determined rather than get the scraps of what public schoolboys from Eton decide what pocket money we deserve despite providing massive input to the UK.

[JimBHibees]

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As opposed to what is known about the Union? An arrangement that has hardly worked to our advantage in the last 40 years. Lets face it, if it was any good, we'd never have voted for Devolution.

Very good point and did Standard Life not also tell us they would leave Scotland if we voted for devolution yet surprisingly didn't.

[The Harp Awakes]

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I agree with most of the above and going the same way. There are far to many unknowns to risk for me and my families future.

Every day of life we take risks which we don't have to take.

18 September is just another day but it will be momentus in deciding how Scotland is governed in the decades that follow. Is it worth taking the risk? I guess it depends on how good life is for the individual right now and how much it means to you for decisions that effect Scotland, to be taken in Scotland.

I can remember well both the failed campaign for Devolution in the 1970s and the successful campaign more recently. There were the same disaster scenarios played out by the Unionists in both campaigns but Scotland has prospered under Devolution and been a success IMO.

The referendum is certainly a leap of faith for many, but for others, a 1 in 25 year opportunity to make things better for the majority of people in our country is too good a chance to miss.

[WindyMiller]

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Every day of life we take risks which we don't have to take.

18 September is just another day but it will be momentus in deciding how Scotland is governed in the decades that follow. Is it worth taking the risk? I guess it depends on how good life is for the individual right now and how much it means to you for decisions that effect Scotland, to be taken in Scotland.

I can remember well both the failed campaign for Devolution in the 1970s and the successful campaign more recently. There were the same disaster scenarios played out by the Unionists in both campaigns but Scotland has prospered under Devolution and been a success IMO.

The referendum is certainly a leap of faith for many, but for others, a 1 in 25 year opportunity to make things better for the majority of people in our country is too good a chance to miss.

Good post, echoes much of what I feel about it.

[Beefster]

I might vote for independence now if Salmond is going to step in and save every single Scottish company in trouble from going under. Does anyone think he'll get personally involved to help write my debt off if I decide not to pay my tax and credit card bill?

[marinello59]

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I might vote for independence now if Salmond is going to step in and save every single Scottish company in trouble from going under. Does anyone think he'll get personally involved to help write my debt off if I decide not to pay my tax and credit card bill?

Beefster in call for state aid to prop up non-sustainable industries amid rumours of a Tory/Trot alliance.

[The Modfather]

So to add to the "cataclysmic" downfall of the world in post Yes, the worlds poor would also suffer. I didn't realise just how important we are as a nation of 5m odd in keeping the equilibrium of the world. Just waiting to hear the climate change worries about the sky falling in post Yes to complete the set.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...obref=obinsite

[green glory]

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So to add to the "cataclysmic" downfall of the world in post Yes, the worlds poor would also suffer. I didn't realise just how important we are as a nation of 5m odd in keeping the equilibrium of the world. Just waiting to hear the climate change worries about the sky falling in post Yes to complete the set. http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...obref=obinsite

Would there be a sky in an independent Scotland? Alex Salmond won't say!

[stoneyburn hibs]

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Would there be a sky in an independent Scotland? Alex Salmond won't say!

Yes. He would tell us, then he would save it.

[ronaldo7]

The No campaign likened to the Jeremy Kyle show.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/will...?utm_hp_ref=tw

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I might vote for independence now if Salmond is going to step in and save every single Scottish company in trouble from going under. Does anyone think he'll get personally involved to help write my debt off if I decide not to pay my tax and credit card bill?

Im banking on it!

[HiBremian]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...=email%2Balert

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...ehind.24005226

Interesting couple of articles in today's Herald about the Yes Campaign. The first is a meedja take on the second, and a neat reflection of their (the meedja, that is) obsession with leaders and personality clashes. For me, the interesting aspect is the strength of the grassroots campaign, and it seems, the way the public are responding to it. If this is a further reflection of the Scottish electorate's engagement in the political debate, despite considerable skepticism towards the political class and their spouting via the meedja, I can only applaud from afar. This comment under the second article really struck me:

"The grassroots YES campaign seems to be huge and very active. But from what I hear many use their own material, gathered at times from other pro-independence websites, even to the extent of using pre-prepared leaflets or making up their own.

And perhaps this should be the way; it's the People of Scotland who will make Independence happen, and will make it work, not a bunch of politicos or paid agents. Either the People of Scotland say "YES" or we say "NO"".

[Moulin Yarns]

If you are undecided then this is worth reading

http://yesdivit.wordpress.com/2014/0...y-road-to-yes/

[Alex Trager]

What's the deal with Robert Gordon uni?

[stoneyburn hibs]

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If you are undecided then this is worth reading

http://yesdivit.wordpress.com/2014/0...y-road-to-yes/

A good read.
I have been inspired and have decided to join the Yes campaign to help out with leaflet drops etc.

[Sylar]

oops.jpg

Let's play spot the difference...

[green glory]

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<img src="http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12463"/> Let's play spot the difference...

Willing participants in state propaganda. Gordon Brown to lecture us on pensions shortly too. The man who ****ed up all our pensions.

[Beefster]

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oops.jpg

Let's play spot the difference...

Superficially, it looks dodgy. Despite the mention of pensions, they are two different stories, I would imagine. One about pensioners not having the resources put away to have a decent retirement, the other about the resources an independent Scotland would need to put towards state pensions.

I'm not offering an opinion on either story incidentally. Just pointing out that they are not the same story.

[JeMeSouviens]

Gordon Brown in warning about pensions.

After the break ... A. Fox warns about the perilous state of chicken farming in an independent Scotland.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Gordon Brown in warning about pensions.

After the break ... A. Fox warns about the perilous state of chicken farming in an independent Scotland.

I'd imagine his pension might suffer in an independent Scotland so maybe he's talking from the heart.