Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[stevejordan]

Totally depressing is this news today I was convinced liquidation was looming

[Keith_M]

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Nonsense

The 80s are the true barometer (and you can say the same for Hibs under mogga)

Winning team - 14k crowds
Losing team - well under 10k

I disagree that you can take the Hearts Yo-Yo years as a barometer of what attendances they'll get next season.

The late 70s/early 80s was the worst era for attendances in football since before the war, so most teams attendances were much lower than they are now. Take Hibs two First Division seasons as an example. Hibs LOWEST attendance in 98/99 was higher than the LARGEST attendance in 80/81 (both roughly 8.5k, and I was at both matches).

If you consider what happened to The Rangers support two years ago. They felt they had a point to prove and bought Season Tickets in massive numbers. You can argue about the prices of the tickets or whatever but the fact is they did it. Hearts fans will feel they have a similar point to prove and, IMHO, will do the same. I wouldn't be surprised if their average attendance next season is between 10-12,000.

The one thing that may happen that was similar was that Hearts had much bigger crowds in their FIRST season in the 1st Div than in subsequent years. If they stay down, that would probably happen again.

[Ronniekirk]

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i think the decider will be how well they do in the 1st division. The momentum will be on their side at the start of next season, fans will be out in their droves buying everything that the FOH brainwash them into.

If they manage to keep that initial stage going throughout the whole season then I wouldn't be surprised to see crowds of 13k+.

You have to think about it from a reasonable unbiased opinion. If they do so happen to be challenging for the title then I'd imagine a lot of people would turn up, regardless of the opposition. It would be the exact same for us if we were to go down.

Don't have a problem with that but if they were to come straight back up and not seem to have been affected in any way then it's almost as if the punishment has benefited them ,so much for sporting integrity being at the heart

[GlasgowHibee]

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Don't have a problem with that but if they were to come straight back up and not seem to have been affected in any way then it's almost as if the punishment has benefited them ,so much for sporting integrity being at the heart

Haven't you heard? Sporting integrity means absolutely sweet f all when it comes to the jumbos.

[Hank Schrader]

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Totally depressing is this news today I was convinced liquidation was looming

Seriously, todays news about Hearts is making you depressed? I think you need to get a life mate.

Being declared bankrupt, losing your job, your wife or girlfriend leaving you, losing a close family member, these are the sort of things that might make someone depressed. Some sh*tey wee insignificant football club getting some shares they require to exit administration? Nah, doesn't really put a dent in my mood. Some folk just need to man up and get on with it.

[Smiggy 7-0]

Bas*****

[Michael]

So, is that Hearts saved now? Next season they'll be a championship club, paying reasonable wages and playing at Tynecastle?

It's all very anticlimactic.

[Dashing Bob S]

This is exciting! I always fancied the frozen shares test. Would have preferred immediate lickers, from the point of view of the utter humiliation and subsequent Jambo Civil War, but always wanted to test Hearts support with Budgie frugality and the FOH financing model.

Will happily take either - let's see what the frozen shares test uncovers.

[Jim44]

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Theyve not 'got away with it' in my book.

If the only punishment you were happy with was liquidation then you were being greedy imo.

They still have debt to pay back to budge.

Theyve still got a crumbling stadium so will need to get a mortgage to replace the main stand.

They have been relegated

The rangers in championship next season so wont get automatic promotion.

They have already got a threadbare squad with players likely to leave.

Theyll have to build new squad on reduced income.

Theyll have to start living within their means for the first time in 30 years.

Liquidation would have been nice and the cherry on top but imo this is in no way the end of their troubles.

If the only punishment you were happy with was liquidation then you were being greedy imo.

No we weren't, their 'crimes' deserved the death-sentence, nothing short of it..


They still have debt to pay back to budge.

Not a problem, getting off the hook will see a huge ground swell of cash being injected into the club.

Theyve still got a crumbling stadium so will need to get a mortgage to replace the main stand.

Not a problem. Plenty of strings to be pulled before they are in any bother on that score.

They have been relegated

In their eyes, probably a minor unavoidable hitch considering what might have been.

The rangers in championship next season so wont get automatic promotion.

I think they probably will. Skatchel will see to it.

They have already got a threadbare squad with players likely to leave.

No they won't. On the contrary, I think they will have a very strong squad in the Championship.

Theyll have to build new squad on reduced income.

I don't think their income will be as small as you think and they will get a reasonable squad.


Theyll have to start living within their means for the first time in 30 years.

So what? They'll still be strong enough to bounce back from a play-off position.

All IMHO of-course.


400,000 Jambos and a huge minority of punters on this board voted for their survival so nearly everybody is happy.

[jakeshibs]

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Didn't say I was happy, just said your statement was false.

how exactly is it false? just asking your opinion.

[Ozyhibby]

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This is exciting! I always fancied the frozen shares test. Would have preferred immediate lickers, from the point of view of the utter humiliation and subsequent Jambo Civil War, but always wanted to test Hearts support with Budgie frugality and the FOH financing model.

Will happily take either - let's see what the frozen shares test uncovers.

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest the frozen shares will be a problem.

[Dashing Bob S]

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I haven't seen any evidence to suggest the frozen shares will be a problem.

I'm no expert in Lithuanian law so I wouldn't have the slightest notion on whether they are untouchable till the ongoing investigation is concluded, or be obtained easily by some internal administrative procedure.

We shall soon find out.

[Twa Cairpets]

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how exactly is it false? just asking your opinion.

You said "...we never really competed with their team this season"

I believe this to be incorrect. The results are one thing, but even for long spells at tynie a couple of weeks back, we competed with them

[Jim44]

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I haven't seen any evidence to suggest the frozen shares will be a problem.

I got the news from an excited Jambo who normally wouldn't cross the road to talk to me. According to him, they will be out of administration by 4 pm. today. I don't know who or what to believe.

[Dashing Bob S]

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I disagree that you can take the Hearts Yo-Yo years as a barometer of what attendances they'll get next season.

The late 70s/early 80s was the worst era for attendances in football since before the war, so most teams attendances were much lower than they are now. Take Hibs two First Division seasons as an example. Hibs LOWEST attendance in 98/99 was higher than the LARGEST attendance in 80/81 (both roughly 8.5k, and I was at both matches).

If you consider what happened to The Rangers support two years ago. They felt they had a point to prove and bought Season Tickets in massive numbers. You can argue about the prices of the tickets or whatever but the fact is they did it. Hearts fans will feel they have a similar point to prove and, IMHO, will do the same. I wouldn't be surprised if their average attendance next season is between 10-12,000.

The one thing that may happen that was similar was that Hearts had much bigger crowds in their FIRST season in the 1st Div than in subsequent years. If they stay down, that would probably happen again.

I think what you suggest is what will happen. Hearts fans will strongly galvanize around the club and attendances will be strong in the championship next season. I think they really need to come straight up though, or a bad cycle of decline could set in through Budge frugality, bread and butter signings, lower crowds and cancelled DD's. Their business model is very shaky, they have a big football debt for such a poorly resourced club to pay off.

[Jim44]

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I think what you suggest is what will happen. Hearts fans will strongly galvanize around the club and attendances will be strong in the championship next season. I think they really need to come straight up though, or a bad cycle of decline could set in through Budge frugality, bread and butter signings, lower crowds and cancelled DD's. Their business model is very shaky, they have a big football debt for such a poorly resourced club to pay off.

I thought their football debt had been cleared by the early payment from the SPFL.

[eggbamyasi]

The way I see it and just my opinion . take away all their cheating , over paying etc etc .hearts got relegated this season and relegated horrifically :-) if they didnt have all the finance **** ups hibs fans world wide would be rejoicing . They are in div 1 they lost all there players they have a really small squad with only a few players any good at all . There income next season will be piss poor . The championship could not be harder to get out of compared to any in recent history .and finally the hearts fans have been through hell for going on 1 1/2 years . All this makes me happy :-D for me all the admin stuff is an added bonus and if more trouble come from it great if not they are still in a really **** place . Also I have enjoyed this thread been some great comedy on it and some of the main people hunting down info for the rest of us has been great . Almost all of it has been spot on with the exception of a few things and personally im greatful for the effort to keep us informed , cheers sergey baj cwg etc etc .
Bring on next season :-D
GGTTH

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

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I thought their football debt had been cleared by the early payment from the SPFL.

Doubt it.

Their debt is £535k. They have already had most of their SPFL money.

[Dashing Bob S]

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Doubt it.

Their debt is £535k. They have already had most of their SPFL money.

Was just going to type 'CWG was the man to speak to...' Any views on how this frozen shares test might pan out?

[Bostonhibby]

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I think what you suggest is what will happen. Hearts fans will strongly galvanize around the club and attendances will be strong in the championship next season. I think they really need to come straight up though, or a bad cycle of decline could set in through Budge frugality, bread and butter signings, lower crowds and cancelled DD's. Their business model is very shaky, they have a big football debt for such a poorly resourced club to pay off.

Agree, all I'd add to this is that with over 25 years dodging debt and funding losses at somebody elses expense there's every reason to expect them to do it again having ditched so much debt this time.

The share test is still an interesting one though. I expect wee eck and the boys have played a political blinderbehind the scenes but automatic approval of the deal from the court might set an interesting precedent for others wanting to go the same way.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Was just going to type 'CWG was the man to speak to...' Any views on how this frozen shares test might pan out?

TBH, I have long given up trying to establish the truth of that. As has been said often enough, we only have limited info, and not enough to be certain either way. God bless our media.

BJ's statement this morning was very optimistic, as optimistic as he has been for a while. That would suggest they aren't a major problem. However, he also mentioned "hurdles" (plural)... which is at least one more than I had counted.

[Islington Hibs]

The reality is

a) this was always the most likely result and like it, or not, BDO have worked wonders from a dreadful position. We need to 'man up about it.'

b) Their claims that they were the victims are ridiculous but we don not want to look small either by sulking.

b) Hearts will probably be favourites for the plays off next season so reasonable chance they will be back in a year or two.

c) They will probably sell 10k season tickets as a kind of defiance and claim crowds of 12000. To be fair to them (and I don't like being) that is a reasonable, but not spectacular, support and similar to what we have achieved when relegated

d) While Hearts have been BL@@@y lucky and will come out of this with little debt the Budgerigar simply does not have enough cash to re-buy their way to success. Their will be little or no credit. I am also far from convinced that a fans committee is the way to run a whelk stall either. Would you want Ian Murray as your leader? So they are now back in the pack in terms of spending with probably less to spend than us or Aberdeen and for several years.

e) Their stadium needs demolishing and starting again. Where is the cash for that?

f) There support will likely tire of probable mediocrity and their gates will be back in the 8-10k range within 3/4 years.

g)what matters is we do the business and dominate Edinburgh with our play for a change. Their doping is over lets prove who the Big team really is.

[Keith_M]

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The share test is still an interesting one though. I expect wee eck and the boys have played a political blinderbehind the scenes but automatic approval of the deal from the court might set an interesting precedent for others wanting to go the same way.

The timing has to be more than a coincidence...


...but it still wouldn't stop me voting Yes

[Craig_in_Prague]

I hope every single service provider asks for cash in advance from them going forward.
They surely never get any credit terms ever again ??

HMRC (1.9M): shafted;
Herriot Watt: shafted
A huge number of regular people in Lithuania: shafted

the creditors list is too long to post. It's all those people I feel sorry for.

And ultimately, they get an asset back worth 3X (and the rest) more than they actually paid.

The mind boggles really.

[Bostonhibby]

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The timing has to be more than a coincidence...


...but it still wouldn't stop me voting Yes

I will pass on that one!

But I did wonder if "Dave" Cameron is going to issue an edict preventing Villa from going down :-)

[Waxy]

Perhaps an extra wee bit political pressure will see the shares unfrozen. This doesn't seem right. Like a 50-1 shot winning a horse race.

[Bostonhibby]

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I hope every single service provider asks for cash in advance from them going forward.
They surely never get any credit terms ever again ??

HMRC (1.9M): shafted;
Herriot Watt: shafted
A huge number of regular people in Lithuania: shafted

the creditors list is too long to post. It's all those people I feel sorry for.

And ultimately, they get an asset back worth 3X (and the rest) more than they actually paid.

The mind boggles really.

Agree, but it does look like HWU were very happy to go along with and prolong the shafting.

[EdinMike]

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I hope every single service provider asks for cash in advance from them going forward.
They surely never get any credit terms ever again ??

HMRC (1.9M): shafted;
Herriot Watt: shafted
A huge number of regular people in Lithuania: shafted

the creditors list is too long to post. It's all those people I feel sorry for.

And ultimately, they get an asset back worth 3X (and the rest) more than they actually paid.

The mind boggles really.

About the HMRC debt, does that mean the plan to pay it back over 3 years or whatever deal they swindled is still going ahead now ?!

[CropleyWasGod]

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About the HMRC debt, does that mean the plan to pay it back over 3 years or whatever deal they swindled is still going ahead now ?!

No. No creditors will be paid, except UKIO.

[Craig_in_Prague]

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About the HMRC debt, does that mean the plan to pay it back over 3 years or whatever deal they swindled is still going ahead now ?!

Written off; hee haw.

Folks wonder why some of us wanted to see the PBS smashed to pieces. It was the only single way, they'd feel any sort of pain in this whole saga.