Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Jim44]

Some of the Jambos seem to think that, if the big L materialises, they will then be salvaged by Budgie and, albeit in a lower league, will pick up the pieces and plod on at the PBS. Old ground already covered I know, but does liquidation not mean that they lose their share in the SPFL and have to re-apply? Furthermore, will the Liths. not take the option of the security on the stadium and dispose of it ( maybe sell it back to them (if they could afford it)?

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[Kato]

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but they were always going to be out of admin by xmas because they are a big team who owe it all to themselves and Lord George Foulkes and independent Ian Murray are sorting it all out, just like Mr Romanov Sir did before them.........

Hubris and/or stupidity. Probably just the latter.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Some of the Jambos seem to think that, if the big L materialises, they will then be salvaged by Budgie and, albeit in a lower league, will pick up the pieces and plod on at the PBS. Old ground already covered I know, but does liquidation not mean that they lose their share in the SPFL and have to re-apply? Furthermore, will the Liths. not take the option of the security on the stadium and dispose of it ( maybe sell it back to them (if they could afford it)?

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AB might well buy the PBS, but it would be in a sale on the open market. She might not want to, of course, given that it might take her longer to get her money back.

As for the security, UKIO would get the first £6.8m (after the liquidator's fees) of that sale.

And, yes, they would lose their SPFL share. A Newco would have to apply to have the share transferred to them. That would result in a similar process to the so-called Sevco "5 way agreement", to make sure that all football debts were paid first.

[Bostonhibby]

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Hubris and/or stupidity. Probably just the latter.

Wasn't Hubris that South American guy who earned £20k a week that Vlad loaned them from Kaunus but never kicked a ball?

[Keith_M]

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Some of the Jambos seem to think that, if the big L materialises, they will then be salvaged by Budgie and, albeit in a lower league, will pick up the pieces and plod on at the PBS. Old ground already covered I know, but does liquidation not mean that they lose their share in the SPFL and have to re-apply?
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There would be absolutely nothing left of the current Hearts, so a transfer would be difficult. Any interested parties would have to make a proposal to the SFA then keep their fingers crossed.

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Furthermore, will the Liths. not take the option of the security on the stadium and dispose of it ( maybe sell it back to them (if they could afford it)?
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That part's much more certain than the first. Tynecastle would be the UKIO Admins asset to do with as they please, so could sell or rent it to whoever they like. The problem is that Tynecastle is presumably covered by the same asset freeze as those pesky shares, so anyone wanting to rent it from them would find it's not actually straightforward to do so, or may take a while.

Even the most Ostrich like of Hearts fans are now facing the prospect of having to find another stadium elsewhere.

[CropleyWasGod]

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There would be absolutely nothing left of the current Hearts, so a transfer would be difficult. Any interested parties would have to make a proposal to the SFA then keep their fingers crossed.



That part's much more certain than the first. Tynecastle would be the UKIO Admins asset to do with as they please, so could sell or rent it to whoever they like. The problem is that Tynecastle is presumably covered by the same asset freeze as those pesky shares, so anyone wanting to rent it from them would find it's not actually straightforward to do so, or may take a while.

Even the most Ostrich like of Hearts fans are now facing the prospect of having to find another stadium elsewhere.

Sorry, that's not correct.

Tynecastle would still be owned by HMFC (IL). It would be sold by their liquidator, and the proceeds divvied up as I mentioned above.

[Springbank]

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Sorry, that's not correct.

Tynecastle would still be owned by HMFC (IL). It would be sold by their liquidator, and the proceeds divvied up as I mentioned above.

Is it sellable or frozen?

[Keith_M]

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Sorry, that's not correct.

Tynecastle would still be owned by HMFC (IL). It would be sold by their liquidator, and the proceeds divvied up as I mentioned above.

Fair enough, wrong entity. Replace the word Admins with Liquidators and it's still basically the same


However, the effect on any prospective New Hearts would be the same.

[Ozyhibby]

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Some of the Jambos seem to think that, if the big L materialises, they will then be salvaged by Budgie and, albeit in a lower league, will pick up the pieces and plod on at the PBS. Old ground already covered I know, but does liquidation not mean that they lose their share in the SPFL and have to re-apply? Furthermore, will the Liths. not take the option of the security on the stadium and dispose of it ( maybe sell it back to them (if they could afford it)?

.

There is very little chance that they could be liquidated and the PBS, the name and assets marketed and sold in the close season.
The league share can be transferred at any time as it can't be sold.
If they want to start a newco in time for next season, they should really get a move on and liquidate now.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Is it sellable or frozen?

It's sellable.

It's only UBIG's assets that are frozen. Tynecastle is not an asset of UBIG, it is owned by HMFC.

[Bostonhibby]

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AB might well buy the PBS, but it would be in a sale on the open market. She might not want to, of course, given that it might take her longer to get her money back.

As for the security, UKIO would get the first £6.8m (after the liquidator's fees) of that sale.

And, yes, they would lose their SPFL share. A Newco would have to apply to have the share transferred to them. That would result in a similar process to the so-called Sevco "5 way agreement", to make sure that all football debts were paid first.

I think this is right, all budgie would be doing is bidding with her own money for the whole shooting match up to what she thought it was worth or the original £2.5m if no one was likely to gazump it, if the figures went beyond that she could probably bid more and still get the flumps to pay her back for the privilege of her owing the club and having a charge over it.

The winners will be the creditors as they will get a higher figure, if budgie wins at a higher figure she gets to be saviour, she might not fancy tying up her cash for even longer, either way the flumps pay more for longer and we all get to watch.

[Keith_M]

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It's sellable.

It's only UBIG's assets that are frozen. Tynecastle is not an asset of UBIG, it is owned by HMFC.

Are you sure about that? I thought the ongoing criminal investigation covered both of them (UKIO and UBIG), therefore frozen assets on all sides

[Weststandwanab]

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The big U-Turn is on. Ian Murray (Fat MP version), Michael Stewart and a few others being rolled out on Reporting Scotland talking about the possibility of the Big L and how the fans will rally round. The panic is almost palpable.

April should be fun

Every month is fun with the Yams Administration.

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What are the odds now on them failing to complete the season?

Very little as the GFA will make sure the fixtures are completed.

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They will see out the season. The second half of May might be tricky though

Days after the last game is my prediction for the big L.

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I would have thought that, privately, a plan for liquidation would already be there, in principle at least. If not through BDO or FOH, at least by someone independent.

If there isn't, it's irresponsible.

I understand it was done last December.

[greenpaper55]

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AB might well buy the PBS, but it would be in a sale on the open market. She might not want to, of course, given that it might take her longer to get her money back.

As for the security, UKIO would get the first £6.8m (after the liquidator's fees) of that sale.

And, yes, they would lose their SPFL share. A Newco would have to apply to have the share transferred to them. That would result in a similar process to the so-called Sevco "5 way agreement", to make sure that all football debts were paid first.

Love the sound of that, this coming week could be fun, first they are relegated thinking they have a year in the first division then no meeting takes place with no new date set so it's goodnight Vienna, it would cheer me up no end.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Is it sellable or frozen?

It's sellable. In the same way that any other of Hearts' assets are sellable, eg. Adam King's registration.

I would imagine that BDO and Budgie will try and cook up a quick business and assets transaction a la Sevco with Yams at all levels attempting to bully/intimidate other potential buyers of the site.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Are you sure about that? I thought the ongoing criminal investigation covered both of them, therefore frozen assets on all sides

Hearts assets aren't frozen, though.

Hearts own the PBS, albeit with a security on it. That security would get paid (at least partly) from any sale.

[Keith_M]

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Hearts assets aren't frozen, though.

Hearts own the PBS, albeit with a security on it. That security would get paid (at least partly) from any sale.

Does that mean that BDO could engage in a stitch up and sell it for a fraction of its true worth?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I think this is right, all budgie would be doing is bidding with her own money for the whole shooting match up to what she thought it was worth or the original £2.5m if no one was likely to gazump it, if the figures went beyond that she could probably bid more and still get the flumps to pay her back for the privilege of her owing the club and having a charge over it.

The winners will be the creditors as they will get a higher figure, if budgie wins at a higher figure she gets to be saviour, she might not fancy tying up her cash for even longer, either way the flumps pay more for longer and we all get to watch.

There is another possibility, of course, that an open sale might result in a lower price. If AB is the only bidder, and she knows that, there's nothing to stop her buying it for even less.

That way, she wins, and UKIO lose out.

[nribs]

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There is another possibility, of course, that an open sale might result in a lower price. If AB is the only bidder, and she knows that, there's nothing to stop her buying it for even less.

That way, she wins, and UKIO lose out.

is this actually likely though??

[CropleyWasGod]

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Does that mean that BDO could engage in a stitch up and sell it for a fraction of its true worth?

It's "true worth" is what someone pays for it. If AB is the only bidder, and she bids say, £1m, that's what it's worth.

That said, it can't follow the Sevco model. Those assets were never put on the market the way the PBS would have to be, so I don't think the "stitch up" that you're suggesting could happen.

[CropleyWasGod]

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is this actually likely though??

Probably not, but one must entertain the possibility .....

[Kato]

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Wasn't Hubris that South American guy who earned £20k a week that Vlad loaned them from Kaunus but never kicked a ball?

Yup, Macho Hubris.

[Bostonhibby]

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There is another possibility, of course, that an open sale might result in a lower price. If AB is the only bidder, and she knows that, there's nothing to stop her buying it for even less.

That way, she wins, and UKIO lose out.

Absolutely right, all about the audience bidding for the assets, the lands got to be worth more than £2.5m and it looks like more than a few Lithuanian creditors are smelling blood.

The delay created by hanging around like a bad smell in the SPL looks like it could come back to haunt them as the land value market improves and the Lithuanians begin to see through the haze created by the apparently generous and early one and only bid. Whatever, the future hardly looks like the fan ownership model they all saved up for

[CropleyWasGod]

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Absolutely right, all about the audience bidding for the assets, the lands got to be worth more than £2.5m and it looks like more than a few Lithuanian creditors are smelling blood.

The delay created by hanging around like a bad smell in the SPL looks like it could come back to haunt them as the land value market improves and the Lithuanians begin to see through the haze created by the apparently generous and early one and only bid. Whatever, the future hardly looks like the fan ownership model they all saved up for

Are you trying to say that Massone isn't a Jambo?

[Bostonhibby]

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Yup, Macho Hubris.

Big nose and dodgy haircut? or was that the other one?

[Bostonhibby]

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Are you trying to say that Massone isn't a Jambo?

Not at all, he looks like he has bumped as many charities as they have, and god knows how many flat screen TV's he has ran off with down the years, allegedly.

[nribs]

Serious question but if the big L happens how much money is made and by whom from all the diddies. All money less a small admin charge has to be given back. Surely there must be a fair amount of intrest accrued so far? And what is a small admin charge??

[Shore Thing]

Re: how much is Tynecastle worth -

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-house-prices-to-soar-along-tram-route-1-3359043


Property experts have suggested homeowners within a mile radius of the tram route will see property prices rise by as much as 15 per cent along the route.


I would estimate that the soon-to-be-available-on-the-open-market land must be no more than 500m from the new Murrayfield stadium tram stop

It would be a naive liquidator who sells prime land for a knockdown price...

[CropleyWasGod]

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Serious question but if the big L happens how much money is made and by whom from all the diddies. All money less a small admin charge has to be given back. Surely there must be a fair amount of intrest accrued so far? And what is a small admin charge??

I suspect that, in that event, FOH would change their constitution to allow the diddies (the ones that wanted to) to contribute to the new club. If it was, say, Massone.... that would be none of them.

"Small admin charges"...... ha! Who can say?

[Weststandwanab]

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There is another possibility, of course, that an open sale might result in a lower price. If AB is the only bidder, and she knows that, there's nothing to stop her buying it for even less.

That way, she wins, and UKIO lose out.

I think that has been the plan all along

The recent sale of the school for such a low amount is part of this.

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is this actually likely though??

Possibly