Scottish Independence

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Anyway... I can't stand the SNP but will be voting YES. I really hope they disappear for good after Independence.

I more or less agree. Especially Salmond.

Pretty tragic that short term considerations like Fat Eck's smug pus being around a few more years or the campaign tribalism of Labour's Nat bashers might deprive of us of a once in a lifetime chance to be a proper country that gets on with sorting itself out. Sigh.

[allmodcons]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I more or less agree. Especially Salmond.

Pretty tragic that short term considerations like Fat Eck's smug pus being around a few more years or the campaign tribalism of Labour's Nat bashers might deprive of us of a once in a lifetime chance to be a proper country that gets on with sorting itself out. Sigh.

Who do you think was, in the main, responsible for delivering this 'once in a lifetime chance'?

Answer - the SNP led by Alex Salmond.

Never before have Scots had the oppourtunity to vote on their own sovereignty and the best you can do is refer to Salmond as Fat Eck.

[allmodcons]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm a democrat and accept collective responsibility. When we engage in these processes you seldom get everything you want.

Joking aside Labour have done a decent job on this considering there are many within the party that did not want further devolution. I took the decision to vote no based on my head not my heart. As I have said previously there are too many questions unanswered to take a risk with a yes vote. Some of that is my pathological hatred of the Nats. Been involved in too many campaigns over decades to change that.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's an internal labour document so changes were always going to happen. But your wrong if you think Westminster is finished. The bookies the polls and commentators are saying a No vote is likely to win. The trouble with being a separatist is that you and your kind can't / won't see the benefits of devolution

The rhetoric you're using suggests to me you're losing the agrument.
Why would you hate 'Nats'. I'm a Nationalist. You've never met me, but yet you have pathological hatred towards me???

[stoneyburn hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's an internal labour document so changes were always going to happen. But your wrong if you think Westminster is finished. The bookies the polls and commentators are saying a No vote is likely to win. The trouble with being a separatist is that you and your kind can't / won't see the benefits of devolution

Can't see any benefits in getting a few more crumbs of power handed to the Scottish parliament every four years from whoever is in charge at Westminster.

This is our chance to get what we vote for, who we vote for and total control of our finances.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So you 'jumped the gun' with the Devo Max line?

Provided we vote No, are you sure this will form part of the 2015 UK Labour Party GE manifesto?
I could be wrong but my understanding is that this is a proposal for the 2016 Scottish Election.

Whatever way you look at it, it's a complete dog's breakfast and only goes as far as tinkering around the edges. If you want confirmation of this you should take a look at Gordon Brewer interviewing Johann Lamont on Newsnight last night. This from a woman who aspires to be Scotland's FM!!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...nd_18_03_2014/

My favourite bit:-

BREWER: What if Ed Balls should become Chancellor of the Exchequer and he says “Right, I’m going to put the top rate up to 50p”, can the Scottish Parliament say no, we’re not going to do that, we’ll just keep it at 45p?
LAMONT: I wouldn’t have thought so.

Just listened to that. She is truly awful didnt have a clue. Scotland can raise the top rate of tax but not lower the rates. Dear oh dear.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm a democrat and accept collective responsibility. When we engage in these processes you seldom get everything you want.

Joking aside Labour have done a decent job on this considering there are many within the party that did not want further devolution. I took the decision to vote no based on my head not my heart. As I have said previously there are too many questions unanswered to take a risk with a yes vote. Some of that is my pathological hatred of the Nats. Been involved in too many campaigns over decades to change that.

Really, dear oh dear. So if independence would benefit Scotland and its communities you wouldnt vote for it because of a pathological hatred of the SNP.

[lucky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The rhetoric you're using suggests to me you're losing the agrument.
Why would you hate 'Nats'. I'm a Nationalist. You've never met me, but yet you have pathological hatred towards me???

Not lost any arguments on here about the separatist agenda but I've use over the top rhetoric similar to what is used by Hibs fans about Hearts in describing the SNP.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Who do you think was, in the main, responsible for delivering this 'once in a lifetime chance'?

Answer - the SNP led by Alex Salmond.

Never before have Scots had the oppourtunity to vote on their own sovereignty and the best you can do is refer to Salmond as Fat Eck.

Jeezo - it's only the interweb!

I personally don't buy the super-astute Salmond myth (see unpardonable folly, penny-for-Scotland) and let's face it he doesn't have much to compete against in Holyrood. I also find him hard to like due to the aforementioned smugness factor. I have submitted myself to rigorous self appraisal just to check I'm not letting anti-Hearts bias creep in.

[Future17]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm a democrat and accept collective responsibility. When we engage in these processes you seldom get everything you want.

Joking aside Labour have done a decent job on this considering there are many within the party that did not want further devolution. I took the decision to vote no based on my head not my heart. As I have said previously there are too many questions unanswered to take a risk with a yes vote. Some of that is my pathological hatred of the Nats. Been involved in too many campaigns over decades to change that.

I'm not sure you can attribute a "no" vote stance to your head having made the decision if it's partly based on a pathological hatred of something.

[RyeSloan]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Jeezo - it's only the interweb! I personally don't buy the super-astute Salmond myth (see unpardonable folly, penny-for-Scotland) and let's face it he doesn't have much to compete against in Holyrood. I also find him hard to like due to the aforementioned smugness factor. I have submitted myself to rigorous self appraisal just to check I'm not letting anti-Hearts bias creep in.

I trust that self appraisal did indeed find that the fact he's a fat Jambo does indeed have a weighting in ones consideration :-)

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's an internal labour document so changes were always going to happen. But your wrong if you think Westminster is finished. The bookies the polls and commentators are saying a No vote is likely to win. The trouble with being a separatist is that you and your kind can't / won't see the benefits of devolution

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Care to elaborate.

I am not a member of any political party and have looked at how the country has been run in both Scotland since Devolution, and the UK. I prefer to be given a shot at doing it for ourselves.

On the subject of Devolution, I've seen benefits and can see no harm in pushing it further. If you want to take your pocket money from Gideon and Co, that's your prerogative. I wouldn't hold out much hope of getting into power in any parliament any time soon.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not lost any arguments on here about the separatist agenda but I've use over the top rhetoric similar to what is used by Hibs fans about Hearts in describing the SNP.

Lucky, I was hoping you would respond to my request for you to elaborate on "Me and my Kind". Any thoughts now you've had a night to think about it?

[ronaldo7]

Meanwhile back on track. Johann might want to go back to skool.

http://reformscotland.com/index.php/...s/details/2010

[Saorsa]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Meanwhile back on track. Johann might want to go back to skool.

http://reformscotland.com/index.php/...s/details/2010

Nail, hammer, heid

"The report is clearly motivated more by short-term referendum politics than a real desire for significant further devolution.”

[Purple & Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

IMHO the sooner we get the referendum over and done with, the better

Sorry to pick up an old post, but I'm inclined to think that a very likely (and worst case scenario IMHO) is that we have a 48/49% yes vote which doesn't resolve the issue and we're debating for another five years before going to the polls again (and voting yes - which I think is inevitable now at some point)

[steakbake]

Better Together parties all now falling over themselves to come up with further devo plans - most of them just smoke and mirrors. Is the No poll lead softer than they'd like to tell us it is?

[lucky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Lucky, I was hoping you would respond to my request for you to elaborate on "Me and my Kind". Any thoughts now you've had a night to think about it?

Don't know what sort of answer you want or expect. Certainly not even thought about it and was not aware that you were waiting overnight for a response. But it's fairly simple You and your kind--- separatists/ nationalists. Hope thus helps you sleep😄 won't be responding for a few days as I'm away to Perth for the weekend. Mixture of party conference and Hibs

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sorry to pick up an old post, but I'm inclined to think that a very likely (and worst case scenario IMHO) is that we have a 48/49% yes vote which doesn't resolve the issue and we're debating for another five years before going to the polls again (and voting yes - which I think is inevitable now at some point)

No chance. As a nation, we can't have a damaging debate and the associated uncertainty of this kind every five years. Presumably if it's 51/49 in favour of indpendence, you wouldn't expect a poll on rejoining the union in five years?

If there's a 'no', there may well be a future referendum but it won't be for a long long time. Whatever the result, it should be final in the medium term. Folk on the losing side are just going to have to suck it up and get on with making the best of whatever we decide.

[jodjam]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sorry to pick up an old post, but I'm inclined to think that a very likely (and worst case scenario IMHO) is that we have a 48/49% yes vote which doesn't resolve the issue and we're debating for another five years before going to the polls again (and voting yes - which I think is inevitable now at some point)

I think this is a one off vote, or at best , a once in a generation vote. The convoluted voting system we were given will see that. Barring a huge scandal hitting 3 of the parties in Scottish politics , we will have coalition governments for some time to come. Even as the votes were being counted at the last election the political analysts were still predicting a coalition.

Hopefully no need though and the YES campaign wins.

[Hibrandenburg]

A bit of fun but it's only funny because like most good gags there's an element of truth in there.

http://longtermplan.org.uk/

Shamelessly stolen from Atomheartfather on Facebook

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A bit of fun but it's only funny because like most good gags there's an element of truth in there.

http://longtermplan.org.uk/

Used!

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Don't know what sort of answer you want or expect. Certainly not even thought about it and was not aware that you were waiting overnight for a response. But it's fairly simple You and your kind--- separatists/ nationalists. Hope thus helps you sleep won't be responding for a few days as I'm away to Perth for the weekend. Mixture of party conference and Hibs

Thanks for your reply.

I was just wanting to see how the labour party activists were going to get me back onboard having voted labour for many years, only to find that we are now hated for deciding to vote for someone else.

I look forward to when the local labour party knock on my door in East Lothian

I wish I could have caught you before you left for perth as I had a wee calculator for Johann you could have dropped off.

Next time maybe with a 40% discount

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A bit of fun but it's only funny because like most good gags there's an element of truth in there.

http://longtermplan.org.uk/

Shamelessly stolen from Atomheartfather on Facebook

Brilliant...Stolen

[ronaldo7]

Henry kens whit the score is...Stop all the Hating

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...-snp-1-3350246

[Hibrandenburg]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Henry kens whit the score is...Stop all the Hating

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...-snp-1-3350246

He does raise an interesting question there. We pretty much know what direction we will move in if Scotland votes yes but where do we go if it votes no? So many permutations depending on who wins the next UK election.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No chance. As a nation, we can't have a damaging debate and the associated uncertainty of this kind every five years. Presumably if it's 51/49 in favour of indpendence, you wouldn't expect a poll on rejoining the union in five years?

If there's a 'no', there may well be a future referendum but it won't be for a long long time. Whatever the result, it should be final in the medium term. Folk on the losing side are just going to have to suck it up and get on with making the best of whatever we decide.

I agree, I think it's put up or shut up time. I'd go further and suggest that if people continue to see us as a nation, rather than a region, after a no vote, they are out of order.

If we vote no, we vote for the UK. We should take our place, in the queue with the English regions.

[HiBremian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A bit of fun but it's only funny because like most good gags there's an element of truth in there.

http://longtermplan.org.uk/

Shamelessly stolen from Atomheartfather on Facebook

Ah, you reckon I don't pop in to this thread anymore, Paul?

PS:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...omist.23757346

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree, I think it's put up or shut up time. I'd go further and suggest that if people continue to see us as a nation, rather than a region, after a no vote, they are out of order.

If we vote no, we vote for the UK. We should take our place, in the queue with the English regions.

If I vote no, it'll be for Scotland to remain within the UK. Everyone's entitled to their own reasoning behind their decision though.

[HiBremian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree, I think it's put up or shut up time. I'd go further and suggest that if people continue to see us as a nation, rather than a region, after a no vote, they are out of order.

If we vote no, we vote for the UK. We should take our place, in the queue with the English regions.

Interesting that you try to play off "nation" against "region" as if they were black and white. What of the Europe of the Regions debate? Or that related issue subsidiarity? In reality, the referendum has got little to do with economic viability - where on the scale of economic competence do you put Westminster governance, I wonder - and everything to do with power struggles. Of the three centres of power that affect our lives most - Brussels, London and Edinburgh - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the most damaging is London, and the over-arching power of the City. Anything that reduces their influence has to be welcomed.

[Hibrandenburg]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ah, you reckon I don't pop in to this thread anymore, Paul?

PS:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...omist.23757346

Knew you'd be sniffing around at some point Richard, that's why I gave you credit.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If I vote no, it'll be for Scotland to remain within the UK. Everyone's entitled to their own reasoning behind their decision though.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Interesting that you try to play off "nation" against "region" as if they were black and white. What of the Europe of the Regions debate? Or that related issue subsidiarity? In reality, the referendum has got little to do with economic viability - where on the scale of economic competence do you put Westminster governance, I wonder - and everything to do with power struggles. Of the three centres of power that affect our lives most - Brussels, London and Edinburgh - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the most damaging is London, and the over-arching power of the City. Anything that reduces their influence has to be welcomed.

Good points, thanks for the responses.