Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Bighoose]

If it situation carries on for a few more weeks, could we start to see a culling of players once they are relegated?

Nothing to play for, so no need to carry players who aint getting a game but picking up a wage.

[DC_Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Glad it makes some sense.

The usual botched summary job at lunch time, can't sacrifice chargeable time! I'm sure BJ would agree with that.

edit: another potential Big (team) can of worms is player contracts, extending them, new contracts, wage increases/reductions, that's another issue entirely for another day. Another worry for BJ!

Are they due any money from the SPFL in a lump sum that could see basic costs covered over rhe summer IF they were forced to release all playing staff to cut costs?

[leggeto]

I think their darkest hour is coming soon,they will be on tv again pleading for cash,TICK TOCK

[Kato]

I'm not bored by the lack of movemnt at all. The respite from them whineing about signing players in the last window is a relief. FoH keeping schtum about how big their movement is is also a blessing.

All I hear is the distant drumming of impatient fingers from Gorgie and the gentle brush of tumbleweed from Lithuania, quite a funky groove to me.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Glad it makes some sense.

The usual botched summary job at lunch time, can't sacrifice chargeable time! I'm sure BJ would agree with that.

edit: another potential Big (team) can of worms is player contracts, extending them, new contracts, wage increases/reductions, that's another issue entirely for another day. Another worry for BJ!

I think they said a couple of weeks ago that they aren't doing any work on them for now. Presumably for the reasons you suggest.

Now get back to work.....

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are they due any money from the SPFL in a lump sum that could see basic costs covered over rhe summer IF they were forced to release all playing staff to cut costs?

If they release all players, they'd have to shut the doors. They aren't allowed to sign anyone.

The SPFL money is due at the end of the season. That could tide them over for a wee while, but I think the £535k football debt has to be deducted first.

[Jack]

When the yams do lose the wongadome we'll have to look for a precident which might indicate what their future might look like.

Oh! Found one!!!

Just along from our friends at frozen share Portsmouth there's a club known as Brighton and Hove Albion.

They lost their ground in 1997 and it wasn't until 2011 when they rebuilt their new home at home in, well near, Brighton.

14 years as tenants as far away as Kent, 75 miles each way.

Of course there is an issue which Brighton and Hove Albion managed to overcome with the help of a flexible friend ... the construction cost of £93 million for a 22,000 seat stadium. I doubt Wonga will do the same.

[GreenLake]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think their darkest hour is coming soon,they will be on tv again pleading for cash,TICK TOCK

And the yams will just keep on taking load after load.

[Ross4356]

I have been reading this thread but don't understand what the big deal about BJ selling Season Tickets is if the club is gonna run out of dough and the only alternative is the Big L

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I have been reading this thread but don't understand what the big deal about BJ selling Season Tickets is if the club is gonna run out of dough and the only alternative is the Big L

I'll try and distil Robin P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, eg if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST's at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

[Ross4356]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'll try and distil Rob P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, ie if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

Brilliant mate cheers

So this means season tickets will only be sold if they get out of admin and into the hands of FoH which they hope is before the start of next season but as no meaningful meetings have been arranged this remains nobody knows what date this is going to be?

Just out of wondering as there is a cooling off period does anyone know the last date they need to be sold so that FoH are in control for the start of next season?

[s.a.m]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'll try and distil Rob P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, ie if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

And in addition to that, the FOH business plan is based on the season ticket money being available to them to run the club after they take over.

[stevejordan]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'll try and distil Rob P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, eg if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST's at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

So the longer the shares stay frozen and the money runs out the headaches get bigger for BDO well i never seen that one which could be the staw that breaks the back well spoted Robin.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Brilliant mate cheers

So this means season tickets will only be sold if they get out of admin and into the hands of FoH which they hope is before the start of next season but as no meaningful meetings have been arranged this remains nobody knows what date this is going to be?

Just out of wondering as there is a cooling off period does anyone know the last date they need to be sold so that FoH are in control for the start of next season?

In theory, they could still sell ST's, as long as they ring-fenced them for the use of the new owners.... but I don't see the point of that, other than to make sure the money is there on Day 1 of the new regime. Well, Day 2, since Day 1 will be taken up with transferring the shares from FOH to Budge.

I'm not clear on the cooling-off period. There is a 30 day one for the CVA, but I'm not sure whether that started in November, when the CVA was provisionally agreed, or it will start if and when UKIO's creditors actually approve it.

Remember, though, it's not just about UKIO, it's also about UBIG, and it's also about the Lith Courts. All of these have to give their approval to the deal. If any of them say "Ne", then the game's a bogey.

[Waxy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If it situation carries on for a few more weeks, could we start to see a culling of players once they are relegated?

Nothing to play for, so no need to carry players who aint getting a game but picking up a wage.

That lot wont cost them much per month in wages. BDO probably make more a month than the entire first team.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If it situation carries on for a few more weeks, could we start to see a culling of players once they are relegated?

Nothing to play for, so no need to carry players who aint getting a game but picking up a wage.

Doubtful.

Remember that they can't sign anyone whilst still in admin. So they have to keep a squad together.

[ehf]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'll try and distil Robin P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, eg if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST's at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

I though Administrators always made it clear that they were contracting in that capacity (on behalf of the company in administration) and accept no personal liability?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I though Administrators always made it clear that they were contracting in that capacity (on behalf of the company in administration) and accept no personal liability?

Not according to our resident IP. Robin's take on things is on the previous page.

[7062]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Doubtful.

Remember that they can't sign anyone whilst still in admin. So they have to keep a squad together.

Do you think that would extend to offering a player a new contract? Or is it all about the registration?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Do you think that would extend to offering a player a new contract? Or is it all about the registration?

I think they could offer an existing player a new contract. However, as Robin P says, that could be another can of worms and is probably the reason why no negotiations have been started yet, and won't until relegation is confirmed, at the earliest.

[Jack Hackett]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In theory, they could still sell ST's, as long as they ring-fenced them for the use of the new owners.... but I don't see the point of that, other than to make sure the money is there on Day 1 of the new regime. Well, Day 2, since Day 1 will be taken up with transferring the shares from FOH to Budge.

I'm not clear on the cooling-off period. There is a 30 day one for the CVA, but I'm not sure whether that started in November, when the CVA was provisionally agreed, or it will start if and when UKIO's creditors actually approve it.

Remember, though, it's not just about UKIO, it's also about UBIG, and it's also about the Lith Courts. All of these have to give their approval to the deal. If any of them say "Ne", then the game's a bogey.

It's the bit about the Lithuanian Court approval that goes right over the happy clappers heads over by, and has been systematically hidden in the small print of all the 'good news' press releases and emails from BDO, FoH and Anne Budge.

The 'rubber stamp' they are eagerly anticipating is strictly between 2/3 sets of administrators about transfer of the shares. When/if that finally happens, the real hurdle of getting Court approval awaits. This would entail more 'meetings' and court hearings at dates even further away than the still unscheduled UBIG meeting. I would fully expect those involved in the criminal investigation to oppose the transfer of the shares, and then to appeal any decision in BDO's favour should the transfer be approved.

The timescale for ALL of this to happen is not in hertz favour

Tick Tock

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In theory, they could still sell ST's, as long as they ring-fenced them for the use of the new owners.... but I don't see the point of that, other than to make sure the money is there on Day 1 of the new regime. Well, Day 2, since Day 1 will be taken up with transferring the shares from FOH to Budge.

I'm not clear on the cooling-off period. There is a 30 day one for the CVA, but I'm not sure whether that started in November, when the CVA was provisionally agreed, or it will start if and when UKIO's creditors actually approve it.

Remember, though, it's not just about UKIO, it's also about UBIG, and it's also about the Lith Courts. All of these have to give their approval to the deal. If any of them say "Ne", then the game's a bogey.

BDO's recent statement (half year trading statement?) made it clear that the cooling off period only begins when the CVA is approved.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

BDO's recent statement (half year trading statement?) made it clear that the cooling off period only begins when the CVA is approved.

Sigh.... I love this place.

Cheers, Ozy.

[grammyb111]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not according to our resident IP. Robin's take on things is on the previous page.

They can get round that easily enough as long as they word what you get in return for your 'season ticket money' in a certain way. For example your money is for a membership of Hearts, which in turn comes with benefits that can be changed at any time.

Whether Hearts fans would be willing/daft enough to sign up for something clearly worded in a way that can leave them getting nothing in return, is another matter...

[Jack Hackett]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They can get round that easily enough as long as they word what you get in return for your 'season ticket money' in a certain way. For example your money is for a membership of Hearts, which in turn comes with benefits that can be changed at any time.

Whether Hearts fans would be willing/daft enough to sign up for something clearly worded in a way that can leave them getting nothing in return, is another matter...

.....do you mean something like a share issue to finance youth development?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They can get round that easily enough as long as they word what you get in return for your 'season ticket money' in a certain way. For example your money is for a membership of Hearts, which in turn comes with benefits that can be changed at any time.

Whether Hearts fans would be willing/daft enough to sign up for something clearly worded in a way that can leave them getting nothing in return, is another matter...

That's, I think, what BJ was alluding to back in November:-

He said: “When the money runs out will depend on how much the supporters give us, but, on the basis of what we have now, then I would say things will get a bit hairy going into February and March. We have enough funding to get to March, but once we get past that then we would be forced to start selling next season tickets for the following season to raise money, and that is a very difficult thing to do. There are legalities to drawing down money for games that haven’t been played – you would probably need to change the terms and conditions if you ask them to buy something they may not get. It is like a donation when you get to that stage.

[Sergey]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

BDO's recent statement (half year trading statement?) made it clear that the cooling off period only begins when the CVA is approved.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sigh.... I love this place.

Cheers, Ozy.

And, at best for them, that is still several months away, not days or weeks...and would also be open to contention from the Ukio creditors, who are yet to be appointed.

Thanks also to RobinP - sort of knew the scenario myself, but good to get it confirmed by an IP.

The ice is getting thinner and thinner where Yams/BDO and time is concerned; but the shares are still frozen solid and don't look like thawing out any time soon.

[grammyb111]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's, I think, what BJ was alluding to back in November:-

He said: “When the money runs out will depend on how much the supporters give us, but, on the basis of what we have now, then I would say things will get a bit hairy going into February and March. We have enough funding to get to March, but once we get past that then we would be forced to start selling next season tickets for the following season to raise money, and that is a very difficult thing to do. There are legalities to drawing down money for games that haven’t been played – you would probably need to change the terms and conditions if you ask them to buy something they may not get. It is like a donation when you get to that stage.

Knew there must've been some comment alluding to that, I was just too lazy to look for it

[grammyb111]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

.....do you mean something like a share issue to finance youth development?

You mean to say they lied where the money was going

[GreenLake]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'll try and distil Robin P's excellent post down.

By selling ST's, BDO are creating a debt. They are taking money for a service that hasn't yet been provided.... ie attendance at games. If they are unable to provide that service, eg if the club folds part-way through the season, then BJ (personally) is liable to pay the unused portion of the ST money back to the fans.

On that basis, it would be daft of BJ/BDO to sell ST's at the moment, particularly when there are so many factors outwith their control.

Gassman should share that liability since he aids in promoting BJ's rights to carry out this new scam to fleece the maroon dupes yet another time.