Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Weststandwanab]

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Nobody is asking for the portsmouth shares to be unfrozen as they were able to start again as a newco, could that not be the difference between the 2 situations?

Portsmouth were liquidated so now there is no need to unfreeze the shares. Jambos are desperate to unfreeze the shares to avoid Liquidation.

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if hearts shares remain frozen while the investigation into their complicit involvement in vlads criminal empire is complete does that mean they will have to be liquidated or are they allowed to continue trading indefinately whilst in administration?

surely they would lose a small fortune in fees to BDO if the administration were to continue into next season?

surely they will recieve the shares in a few weeks as ian murray and the evening news have stated? why else would they stick their necks out on this as they will lose all credibility if the deal isn't rubber stamped?

Once BJ knows they are gong to run out of cash whilst the shares are sill frozen he will have no choice but the big L.

[cam75]

If hearts remain in admin do they get points deduction next season ?

[Mikey]

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Nobody is asking for the portsmouth shares to be unfrozen as they were able to start again as a newco, could that not be the difference between the 2 situations?

BDO did try to get the shares but when they were unable to do so they took the liquidation route. It was easier to do it with Portsmouth as their league rules meant that they could just start over again in the same league.

If Hearts are liquidated they go down to League 2 or the Lowland League.

I'm surprised that so many people still think that CWG, CG, PTS and Robinp (people who work in the industry) have just been making it all up for such a sustained period of time.

[Mikey]

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If hearts remain in admin do they get points deduction next season ?

Yes. 15 points.

[Mikey]

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Once BJ knows they are gong to run out of cash whilst the shares are sill frozen he will have no choice but the big L.

I would expect them to dip into the money raised from the DD's to try and avoid liquidation. That would of course mean remaining in administration and starting next season on -15.

[Weststandwanab]

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BDO did try to get the shares but when they were unable to do so they took the liquidation route. It was easier to do it with Portsmouth as their league rules meant that they could just start over again in the same league.

If Hearts are liquidated they go down to League 2 or the Lowland League.

I'm surprised that so many people still think that CWG, CG, PTS and Robinp (people who work in the industry) have just been making it all up for such a sustained period of time.

I believe them but then I am a bean counter.

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I would expect them to dip into the money raised from the DD's to try and avoid liquidation. That would of course mean remaining in administration and starting next season on -15.

I think that is possible but unlikely as it would require a change of constitution of the F.O.H. and that may unsettle the natives.

If the natives allow this they could end up "funding" the funding indefinitely whilst the freezer door remained closed.

If I was BJ I would ask AB for short term funding but only if there was definite date of the fridge door opening.

Otherwise I still say the big L looms.

[semaj64]

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I'm surprised that so many people still think that CWG, CG, PTS and Robinp (people who work in the industry) have just been making it all up for such a sustained period of time.

Without taking a fee unlike BDO

[CropleyWasGod]

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Without taking a fee unlike BDO

Eh? When the f was that decided? ??

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[Jack]

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if hearts shares remain frozen while the investigation into their complicit involvement in vlads criminal empire is complete does that mean they will have to be liquidated or are they allowed to continue trading indefinately whilst in administration?

surely they would lose a small fortune in fees to BDO if the administration were to continue into next season?

surely they will recieve the shares in a few weeks as ian murray and the evening news have stated? why else would they stick their necks out on this as they will lose all credibility if the deal isn't rubber stamped?

What credibility? ;-)

[semaj64]

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Eh? When the f was that decided? ??

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Cheques in the post or do you prefer shares

[Weststandwanab]

CWG should get a BACS transfer

[Mikey]

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I think that is possible but unlikely as it would require a change of constitution of the F.O.H. and that may unsettle the natives.

If the natives allow this they could end up "funding" the funding indefinitely whilst the freezer door remained closed.

If I was BJ I would ask AB for short term funding but only if there was definite date of the fridge door opening.

Otherwise I still say the big L looms.

I'm still inclined to think that the natives will allow the money built up to be used to avoid dropping to League 2 or below. Budgie might not be too keen on it though.

[Keith_M]

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http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/bank-sold-to-pay-ex-hearts-owner-romanov-s-debts-1-3281497

The headline says 'Bank Sold' but the article says absolutely nothing more than the following...

"But the sale crumbled after Ubig plunged into administration last November amid claims of financial irregularities. Today, insolvency experts said the former RBS estate – which includes an elaborate banking hall – could be bought for a “knock-down price” at an international auction."

It must count as one of the most misleading (frankly it's just a lie) of all time.

[Keith_M]

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Without taking a fee unlike BDO

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Eh? When the f was that decided? ??

I've been meaning to ask for a while now if you guys are getting paid from the proceeds of the Hearts sales, just like BDO

[Dashing Bob S]

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I'm still inclined to think that the natives will allow the money built up to be used to avoid dropping to League 2 or below. Budgie might not be too keen on it though.

Yes, that one might just ruffle a few feathers.

(Sorry, but I couldn't resist - I really did try.)

[Jack Hackett]

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I'm still inclined to think that the natives will allow the money built up to be used to avoid dropping to League 2 or below. Budgie might not be too keen on it though.

I don't think she would be too concerned as repayments to her aren't due for a couple of years. Any money FoH used now would be coming out of next season running costs. I agree that the diddies will allow funds to be used to keep them afloat in the short term. Having come this far, they won't really have an option

[07hibee]

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The headline says 'Bank Sold' but the article says absolutely nothing more than the following...

"But the sale crumbled after Ubig plunged into administration last November amid claims of financial irregularities. Today, insolvency experts said the former RBS estate – which includes an elaborate banking hall – could be bought for a “knock-down price” at an international auction."

It must count as one of the most misleading (frankly it's just a lie) of all time.

Yeah very misleading ,puts you off buying a paper !

[Dashing Bob S]

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I don't think she would be too concerned as repayments to her aren't due for a couple of years. Any money FoH used now would be coming out of next season running costs. I agree that the diddies will allow funds to be used to keep them afloat in the short term. Having come this far, they won't really have an option

It would depend on her motivation for becoming involved in this fiasco. Of she is being transparent and just wants to facilitate fan ownership, then she'll know that the squandering of FOH resources on club operating costs is going to make their purchase of the club from her all the more difficult in the 3-5 year period set. If they couldn't complete this it would presumably mean her being lumbered with them.

If she wants ownership of the club, to either run herself and/or sell as a going concern, she's got it on the cheap (no pun intended) with the fans through FOH having done the dirty work.

It's worth noting that Budge's estimated net worth of 40 mill is pretty small beer in terms of football club ownership and it would be a stretch to be able to afford to buy and run a club with that sort of asset base (much of which might be tied up in personal assets) without any such assistance.

If only she could find some simpletons to buy and run the club for her, defaulting on their promise to complete the transaction through squandering money on actually running the club...

Sadly for her, (if this was her plan, not saying it is, just speculating) such gullible fools do not exist...or do they?

Think of all the fun we might have had if it wasn't for those pesky frozen shares!

But I'm sure liquidation will provide another bundle of laughs!

[ballengeich]

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The Court froze them. Only they can unfreeze them.

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I'm still unclear about how difficult this will be. Given that the court has to unfreeze the shares, who could start that process?

Do you know whether the UBIG administrator could ask for them to be unfrozen because an offer regarded as being in the creditors' interest has been received? If that's a possible path our maroon neighbours may not be in too bad a state.

On the other hand, if everything has to remain frozen until criminal investigations are completed they're doomed.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I've been meaning to ask for a while now if you guys are getting paid from the proceeds of the Hearts sales, just like BDO

I've been meaning to say for a while now. ....

F R O

;-)

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[greenginger]

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I'm still unclear about how difficult this will be. Given that the court has to unfreeze the shares, who could start that process?

Do you know whether the UBIG administrator could ask for them to be unfrozen because an offer regarded as being in the creditors' interest has been received? If that's a possible path our maroon neighbours may not be in too bad a state.

On the other hand, if everything has to remain frozen until criminal investigations are completed they're doomed.

I think the process will be for a creditors meeting to be called to elect a creditors committee.

This will consist of reps from companies in Lithuania, Belarus, Bosnia, Ukraine, Russia etc. etc. no doubt having to refer back to admins and courts in their own countries as many creditors will also be in administration. Once the multi-linguistics are sorted and agreements in place to proceed I would guess one of the items up for approval of the committee would an offer of zilch for the shares in HOMFC.

If this is accepted then the UBIG administrator will petition the Lithuanian Court to release the shares. How long would that take to get to court, who knows, will the prosecuter's office contest, could there be an appeal, is there a cooling off period ?

Does AllisBarry have all the answers .

[Gus Fring]

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I'm still unclear about how difficult this will be. Given that the court has to unfreeze the shares, who could start that process?

Do you know whether the UBIG administrator could ask for them to be unfrozen because an offer regarded as being in the creditors' interest has been received? If that's a possible path our maroon neighbours may not be in too bad a state.

On the other hand, if everything has to remain frozen until criminal investigations are completed they're doomed.

That's exactly what the UBIG administrator is doing just now. They've gotten nowhere thus far though.

Of course, Hearts fans will mock the talk of the frozen shares and deny that such a thing exists. Watch their faces when you ask them to explain why Mrs Budge doesn't have the shares already though

[ballengeich]

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If this is accepted then the UBIG administrator will petition the Lithuanian Court to release the shares. How long would that take to get to court, who knows, will the prosecuter's office contest, could there be an appeal, is there a cooling off period ?

Does AllisBarry have all the answers .

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That's exactly what the UBIG administrator is doing just now. They've gotten nowhere thus far though.

Thanks. That's the info I was looking for.

[Dashing Bob S]

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I'm still unclear about how difficult this will be. Given that the court has to unfreeze the shares, who could start that process?

Do you know whether the UBIG administrator could ask for them to be unfrozen because an offer regarded as being in the creditors' interest has been received? If that's a possible path our maroon neighbours may not be in too bad a state.

On the other hand, if everything has to remain frozen until criminal investigations are completed they're doomed.

This is the absolute crux of the matter, and is the one question that everybody concerned with the future of Hearts should be asking. Yet it's never raised in our press.

I think in the first instance the problem anybody is going to have in asking for one particular small set of assets to be unfrozen, (in what is a huge number in a complicated case) is simply to get a hearing from the court. We keep hearing that the UBIG administrators are going to meet some time next month. What does that actually mean?

The second problem, is the special case pleading. If one set of assets can be unfrozen, it sets a precedence, and it could be seen to prejudice or at least undermine the investigation. I can't think of any court that would permit this.

[Mikey]

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Of course, Hearts fans will mock the talk of the frozen shares and deny that such a thing exists. Watch their faces when you ask them to explain why Mrs Budge doesn't have the shares already though

Yep. It's pretty obvious that they would be out of admin by now if the shares were available. You wonder what they think is holding things up.

[Paperboy]

Anne Budge has the same coloured hair as my late Nana's nicotine stained wallpaper

just saying

[Weststandwanab]

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I'm still inclined to think that the natives will allow the money built up to be used to avoid dropping to League 2 or below. Budgie might not be too keen on it though.

If it is that or Liquidisation you will be correct - . Budgie has no say.

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The headline says 'Bank Sold' but the article says absolutely nothing more than the following...

"But the sale crumbled after Ubig plunged into administration last November amid claims of financial irregularities. Today, insolvency experts said the former RBS estate – which includes an elaborate banking hall – could be bought for a “knock-down price” at an international auction."

It must count as one of the most misleading (frankly it's just a lie) of all time.

misleading the Press surely not.

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Yeah very misleading ,puts you off buying a paper !

buy no !

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It would depend on her motivation for becoming involved in this fiasco. Of she is being transparent and just wants to facilitate fan ownership, then she'll know that the squandering of FOH resources on club operating costs is going to make their purchase of the club from her all the more difficult in the 3-5 year period set. If they couldn't complete this it would presumably mean her being lumbered with them.

If she wants ownership of the club, to either run herself and/or sell as a going concern, she's got it on the cheap (no pun intended) with the fans through FOH having done the dirty work.

It's worth noting that Budge's estimated net worth of 40 mill is pretty small beer in terms of football club ownership and it would be a stretch to be able to afford to buy and run a club with that sort of asset base (much of which might be tied up in personal assets) without any such assistance.

If only she could find some simpletons to buy and run the club for her, defaulting on their promise to complete the transaction through squandering money on actually running the club...

Sadly for her, (if this was her plan, not saying it is, just speculating) such gullible fools do not exist...or do they?

Think of all the fun we might have had if it wasn't for those pesky frozen shares!

But I'm sure liquidation will provide another bundle of laughs!

she will be worth nowhere near 40m as she did not own all the shares and there will have been substantial capital gains tax payable if the firm was started from scratch.

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I'm still unclear about how difficult this will be. Given that the court has to unfreeze the shares, who could start that process?

Do you know whether the UBIG administrator could ask for them to be unfrozen because an offer regarded as being in the creditors' interest has been received? If that's a possible path our maroon neighbours may not be in too bad a state.

On the other hand, if everything has to remain frozen until criminal investigations are completed they're doomed.

Answered your own questions there.

[IWasThere2016]

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Eh? When the f was that decided? ??

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You need an agent!

[Kaiser1962]

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Portsmouth were liquidated so now there is no need to unfreeze the shares. Jambos are desperate to unfreeze the shares to avoid Liquidation.

I believe BDO tried quite hard to prevent liquidation at pompey and failed. Just as their primary task is, apparently, to save the company and therefore avoid liquidation, there may be an argument that if they are succcessful in Hearts case why couldnt they have done it for Portsmouth. Surely it wasnt done at Portsmouth merely because it was convenient to do so?

It is also worth mentioning that Ann Budge is getting Hearts and all that they possess for less (in actual £'s and less than half price if adjusted for inflaton) than Farmer stumped up for Hibs 23 years ago.

[Ronniekirk]

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This is the absolute crux of the matter, and is the one question that everybody concerned with the future of Hearts should be asking. Yet it's never raised in our press.

I think in the first instance the problem anybody is going to have in asking for one particular small set of assets to be unfrozen, (in what is a huge number in a complicated case) is simply to get a hearing from the court. We keep hearing that the UBIG administrators are going to meet some time next month. What does that actually mean?

The second problem, is the special case pleading. If one set of assets can be unfrozen, it sets a precedence, and it could be seen to prejudice or at least undermine the investigation. I can't think of any court that would permit this.

So is Ann Budge in the know ,and there are tentative dates set ,so she has parameters she is working to . Or is she pledging all this with the possibility they could go into liquidation and have to go Into third division ,hence she is giving them three to five years before she wants her money back .If she was just a Business woman you would say she wouldn't be interested if Liquidation was the most likely outcome but she is a fan with money to burn ,who presumably wants her club to survive at any cost ,but if she can make money out of them as well,all the better .Its intriguing ,as if they had a definite date for a Court date or dates you would think they would be ramming it down our throats .Hence March at earliest is best possible outcome mentioned to date .