Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Weststandwanab]

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Sergey, what are they saying

I would imagine the more intelligent supporters will be showing concern for the F.O.H. appearing to shift the goalposts regarding fan ownership.

[greenginger]

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The Company is BIDCO (1874) Ltd.

Found it on Companies House web site. One share owned by Ann Budge.

Agent of Company ..... 7Side Limited ...... I kid you not ! They just love the number 7.

[Sergey]

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Sergey, what are they saying

It looks like Dexter is playing the totalitarian card and telling everyone to tow the party line or else they'll be punted from the forum.

Differing opinions aren't readily welcomed.

[greenginger]

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I would imagine the more intelligent supporters will be showing concern for the F.O.H. appearing to shift the goalposts regarding fan ownership.

Wonder if that was the reason for Mackie and Ford quitting last year ?

Brian Cormack seems to be the main man there now.

[matty_f]

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I would imagine the more intelligent supporters will be showing concern for the F.O.H. appearing to shift the goalposts regarding fan ownership.

It's definitely a completely different picture to the one painted by FoH when they were asking for pledges.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I would imagine the more intelligent supporters will be showing concern for the F.O.H. appearing to shift the goalposts regarding fan ownership.

That's my thoughts.

Thinking this through, my original understanding was.

1. FOH buy the shares, and use Bidco's money to do so.

2. FOH therefore own the club.

3. Over time, FOH repay Bidco.

4. Over time, fans take control of FOH.

That's not what the common understanding is now.

Ozy, I apologise for shooting you down earlier.

[Geo_1875]

I find the quoted figures interesting.

As far as I can see the Diddies need to find the following:

Year 1 - £1m for immediate working capital and football debt
+ £1.4m additional working capital
Year 2 - £1.4m working capital
Year 3-5 £2.5m repayment of Bidco investment

That looks like £6.3m which exceeds the £6m given by FoH and EEN as required from fans. It also does not include any additional working capital in years 3-5. Do they expect to be fully self-sufficient or are they hoping for further investment from their new chairperson?

[greenginger]

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That's my thoughts.

Thinking this through, my original understanding was.

1. FOH buy the shares, and use Bidco's money to do so.

2. FOH therefore own the club.

3. Over time, FOH repay Bidco.

4. Over time, fans take control of FOH.

That's not what the common understanding is now.

Ozy, I apologise for shooting you down earlier.

Will this new arrangement un-ravel the CVA ?

Clause 2. " The Foundation of Hearts ( FoH ) is to purchase the Club as a going concern for a total consideration of £ 2.5 million ...... etc "

Could it be back to the drawing board or can BDO just swop one purchaser for another ?

[Weststandwanab]

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Wonder if that was the reason for Mackie and Ford quitting last year ?

Brian Cormack seems to be the main man there now.

I would think there is no smoke without fire.

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It's definitely a completely different picture to the one painted by FoH when they were asking for pledges.

Very different.

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That's my thoughts.

Thinking this through, my original understanding was.

1. FOH buy the shares, and use Bidco's money to do so.

2. FOH therefore own the club.

3. Over time, FOH repay Bidco.

4. Over time, fans take control of FOH.

That's not what the common understanding is now.

Ozy, I apologise for shooting you down earlier.

CWG I would agree with your original understanding - I was the same but looking at the current proposal it is vastly different and poses more questions than provides answers. In the meantime remember the shares are still Frozen !

On a separate note I see Ian - call me a M.P.- Murray is now some sort of expert on common currencies !

[Ozyhibby]

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That's my thoughts.

Thinking this through, my original understanding was.

1. FOH buy the shares, and use Bidco's money to do so.

2. FOH therefore own the club.

3. Over time, FOH repay Bidco.

4. Over time, fans take control of FOH.

That's not what the common understanding is now.

Ozy, I apologise for shooting you down earlier.

It's clearly a different deal from what they all signed up for. No apology needed. I rarely know what I'm talking about and just got lucky. :-)

[Ozyhibby]

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Will this new arrangement un-ravel the CVA ?

Clause 2. " The Foundation of Hearts ( FoH ) is to purchase the Club as a going concern for a total consideration of £ 2.5 million ...... etc "

Could it be back to the drawing board or can BDO just swop one purchaser for another ?

Duff and Phelps did with Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Duff and Phelps did with Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland.

You're on a roll, now.

I'm hesitating to shoot you down again, but I think that was different. The 5088 deal was set up by D&P, but the transfer to Scotland was a deal between those two companies.

I think, he says, with one eye on Ozy.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Will this new arrangement un-ravel the CVA ?

Clause 2. " The Foundation of Hearts ( FoH ) is to purchase the Club as a going concern for a total consideration of £ 2.5 million ...... etc "

Could it be back to the drawing board or can BDO just swop one purchaser for another ?

That's what I keep coming back to.

It's FOH, not Ann Budge or BIDCO or anyone else, who are committed to buying the shares in the CVA.

[greenginger]

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That's what I keep coming back to.

It's FOH, not Ann Budge or BIDCO or anyone else, who are committed to buying the shares in the CVA.

So will it need to go to a new vote of creditors , another cooling off period etc etc.

Come on Robinp, your expertise is required by Hibs.net.

Have BDO said anything about this ?

[Ozyhibby]

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You're on a roll, now.

I'm hesitating to shoot you down again, but I think that was different. The 5088 deal was set up by D&P, but the transfer to Scotland was a deal between those two companies.

I think, he says, with one eye on Ozy.

My understanding is that 5088 are challenging (or threatening to) in court the deal because they had no part of it. The notes in new Rangers account made note of a potential claim from 5088 along these lines.

[GloryGlory]

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I find the quoted figures interesting.

As far as I can see the Diddies need to find the following:

Year 1 - £1m for immediate working capital and football debt
+ £1.4m additional working capital
Year 2 - £1.4m working capital
Year 3-5 £2.5m repayment of Bidco investment

That looks like £6.3m which exceeds the £6m given by FoH and EEN as required from fans. It also does not include any additional working capital in years 3-5. Do they expect to be fully self-sufficient or are they hoping for further investment from their new chairperson?

Also doesn't say anything about stadium redevelopment, which is an issue that will have to be readdressed within 5 years.

I suspect AB will retain ownership of the land and stadium (which effectively she will get for nowt if/when the fans pay her back) and the fans will get shares in the football club that are tenants of the property (on a full repairing lease!). I can't see AB doing this out of the goodness of her heart (pardon the pun).

[southsider]

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I would think there is no smoke without fire.

Very different.

CWG I would agree with your original understanding - I was the same but looking at the current proposal it is vastly different and poses more questions than provides answers. In the meantime remember the shares are still Frozen !

On a separate note I see Ian - call me a M.P.- Murray is now some sort of expert on common currencies !

The more i see him as a spokesman for the NO lot the more i am thinking of voting YES.

[Ozyhibby]

Is it possible that all this activity and disclosure is because there has been a change of plan with FoH?

[greenginger]

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Duff and Phelps did with Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland.

That was the sale of assets after the CVA was rejected . What appears to be going to happen at Gorgie now, HOMFC will be sold to Bidco 1874 rather than FoH.

That is not what was proposed at the CVA vote , that is not what was reported to Court of Session, can it happen without a fresh vote ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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That was the sale of assets after the CVA was rejected . What appears to be going to happen at Gorgie now, HOMFC will be sold to Bidco 1874 rather than FoH.

That is not what was proposed at the CVA vote , that is not what was reported to Court of Session, can it happen without a fresh vote ?

I am still reading yesterday's press release as confirming that FOH are buying the shares, funded by BIDCO.

"BIDCO
will provide the following support:

Fund the upfront capital £2.5m to enable the CVA to be completed and to see Hearts exit administration"


It's what happens immediately afterwards that is confusing me. Is it the case that there will be an immediate transfer of the shares from FOH to BIDCO? That would then mean that the rest of the press release makes sense.

This statement is the most telling for me, though:-

"BIDCO is unable to enter into public discussion regarding details of
the rescue package or future plans for the club"

It's nane of oor business.

[Ozyhibby]

@WelshIrvine: Is it just my interpretation of events or are Hearts supporters now being expected to buy their club for the ownership of a private company?

@WelshIrvine: If so, it sadly fits in perfectly with the ethos of our times. A 'Labour man' backing a 'fan movement' as a front for private ownership.

[Weststandwanab]

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Also doesn't say anything about stadium redevelopment, which is an issue that will have to be readdressed within 5 years.

I suspect AB will retain ownership of the land and stadium (which effectively she will get for nowt if/when the fans pay her back) and the fans will get shares in the football club that are tenants of the property (on a full repairing lease!). I can't see AB doing this out of the goodness of her heart (pardon the pun).

I think the F.O.H. stated position of we will stay at PBS for the foreseeable future covers that ! Now what Bidco (1874) Ltd's position is we will see of the shares are ever unfrozen.

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The more i see him as a spokesman for the NO lot the more i am thinking of voting YES.

Delighted to read that please see this ink

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&v ed=0CDEQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland .com%2Fpolitics%2Freferendum-news%2Fyes-does-not-mean-yes.23438016&ei=3PH9UsfEHInMhAeClYEI&usg=AFQjCNFOA jR5xm7tmlNbdqMwzwbvgNXZ3A&sig2=-sTnhoVdg3hx94vOXcMV5g&bvm=bv.61190604,d.d2k

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Is it possible that all this activity and disclosure is because there has been a change of plan with FoH?

I think there may be merit in that thought.

[Geo_1875]

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I am still reading yesterday's press release as confirming that FOH are buying the shares, funded by BIDCO.

"BIDCO
will provide the following support:

Fund the upfront capital £2.5m to enable the CVA to be completed and to see Hearts exit administration"


It's what happens immediately afterwards that is confusing me. Is it the case that there will be an immediate transfer of the shares from FOH to BIDCO? That would then mean that the rest of the press release makes sense.

This statement is the most telling for me, though:-

"BIDCO is unable to enter into public discussion regarding details of
the rescue package or future plans for the club"

It's nane of oor business.

The entire release could have been covered in a couple of sentences but they can't help patting each other on the back. What's confusing things is FoH don't know what is really going on until Bidco's lawyers tell them.

[tamig]

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Did they actually spend one million on design fees or did they string along the Architect with promises of the commission once the stand received planning permission?

Either way, spending a million on the old stand would do little to solve the safety issues. A ball and chain is the only way to deal with that!

Did you see the number of boxes that "now that's what I call a planning application" filled?

The boxes alone must have cost well into 6 figures

[CropleyWasGod]

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@WelshIrvine: Is it just my interpretation of events or are Hearts supporters now being expected to buy their club for the ownership of a private company?

@WelshIrvine: If so, it sadly fits in perfectly with the ethos of our times. A 'Labour man' backing a 'fan movement' as a front for private ownership.

He could well be right.

No matter the facts of the situation, perception is key here. If the "ordinary" Hearts fan (insert your own joke here) thinks he's getting shafted, then he'll back off.

I am sensing that Ms. Budge needs to clarify things.... for my sake if no-one else.

[jacomo]

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Its not at odds with the FOH statement in my opinion. BIDCO owned & run exclusively by Budge buy the club. Only when the conditions of yesterdays FOH statement are met can BIDCO & FOH then enter negotiations to transfer the club. There is time constraints on this happening (3-5 years). All in the statement.

Any recent smoke from FOH and BDO has failed to mention BIDCO's prominence and instead spouted nonsense like 'Greatest Fan Movement Ever'...they have failed to even acknowledge a 3 year period in between where they will donate but have no control.

This latest press release draws a clear distinction between BIDCO and FoH, describing them as separate entities.

Previously, the impression was that they were one and the same.

[CropleyWasGod]

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This latest press release draws a clear distinction between BIDCO and FoH, describing them as separate entities.

Previously, the impression was that they were one and the same.

Not mine. They have always been separate to me.

If anything, the latest release muddies things, compared to what they were.

[jacomo]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...deal-1-3305696

EDINBURGH businesswoman Ann Budge is poised to become the new majority shareholder of Hearts and oversee a transfer of control to fans group Foundation of Hearts (FoH), it has been confirmed.

I read FoH's description of BIDCO "providing the following support" as disingenuous. It seems more like the other way round... BIDCO is the buyer and FoH are going to tie themselves to a contract to pay her back.

Good deal for her - she gets to dabble at running a football club for a few years and then get her money back.

[Mikey09]

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I would imagine the more intelligent supporters will be showing concern for the F.O.H. appearing to shift the goalposts regarding fan ownership.

I would imagine most yams will do what they're good at.... Stick there heads in the sand and ask hee haw... For a yam this must be like coming across an RTA, slowing down as they really want to know what's going on but scared as to what they might see....

[Geo_1875]

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http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...deal-1-3305696



I read FoH's description of BIDCO "providing the following support" as disingenuous. It seems more like the other way round... BIDCO is the buyer and FoH are going to tie themselves to a contract to pay her back.

Good deal for her - she gets to dabble at running a football club for a few years and then get her money back.

Will she be happy when the bills start rolling in and the Diddies can't cough up any more?