Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Hibee87]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They are not a new club in the eyes of the SFA though, as they allowed them to keep their footballing history .. which must surely include the administration event along with their titles.
The only thing they were not allowed to keep was their SPL share, which is history for everyone as there is no longer an SPL.

Are you sure? I thought they were allowed to keep the history against the OLD club - i.e no cups or leagues stripped over the years of the cheating, however they are still a new club. I could be wrong

[PatHead]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's 25 points for a second offence within 5 years I think, but the first a administration happened before the SPFL came into being so another insolvency event might be counted as the first one under the new rules. Maybe that's why The Ranjurs would need to ask the SPFL for advice on the matter, assuming the rumour is true.

Is it not a 1/3rd of previous season's points total with a minimum of 15/25 points* (delete depending on whether you consider yourself the old club)?

[The_Todd]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is it not a 1/3rd of previous season's points total with a minimum of 15/25 points* (delete depending on whether you consider yourself the old club)?

The one-third rule was the last SPL rule. The SPFL has standardised it as 15/25 depending on first offence in five years or not.

[PatHead]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The one-third rule was the last SPL rule. The SPFL has standardised it as 15/25 depending on first offence in five years or not.

Darn. Would have loved The Rangers to start on -30 and still overtake Hearts after 11 games.

[steviehibsleith]

Heard from a Hun friend the day after Dave King was in Scotland, basically now everything is resolved with SA authorities he wants back in with Rangers only this time he wants full control. As other parties will not relinquish their positions/shareholding the only way this can happen is another administration after which he will ride in.

[green glory]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Heard from a Hun friend the day after Dave King was in Scotland, basically now everything is resolved with SA authorities he wants back in with Rangers only this time he wants full control. As other parties will not relinquish their positions/shareholding the only way this can happen is another administration after which he will ride in.

He has a criminal conviction for aggressive tax evasion, so he's unable to sit on the board of any club.

Everything wasn't resolved, that's Hun revisionism at its best.

[Finbar]

So who do they owe money to this time? Surely no one was mug enough to actually lend then cash?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So who do they owe money to this time? Surely no one was mug enough to actually lend then cash?

This is where I am slightly sceptical about the claims of their demise.

They seem to have burned a lot of cash since they re-started, granted, but IIRC at the AGM they still had c. £10m in the bank. I would have thought that that would be enough to keep them out of insolvency for the time being.

[green glory]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So who do they owe money to this time? Surely no one was mug enough to actually lend then cash?

I don't think it's about debt at the moment. More about cash burn v money in the bank.

Malcolm Murray openly admitted they'd be down to their last million before the end of the season.

They don't have a credit line from any banks so it'll have to be austerity (big time) or insolvency.

[Ozyhibby]

Admin may be a way of getting out of some poor contracts that they signed.
Dean Shiels on 7k a week
Lee Wallace on 15k
Merchandising contracts
Etc
Doesn't have to be about debt

[Weststandwanab]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Admin may be a way of getting out of some poor contracts that they signed.
Dean Shiels on 7k a week
Lee Wallace on 15k
Merchandising contracts
Etc
Doesn't have to be about debt

One of those figures is wrong by a third but I agree Admin 2 looms

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

One of those figures is wrong by a third but I agree Admin 2 looms

I've no doubt as I guessed?
:-)

[StevieC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are you sure?

It's the SFA and The Rangers, can anyone be sure?

To the best of my knowledge, the SFA are accepting that it's the same team. A look on the new SPFL website has the Division 1 team, called "Rangers", as being founded in 1872 and includes all their previous honours.

The "The Rangers" stuff is more to do with liability for debt than footballing history.

As the administration process (and drop down the leagues) was a footballing event, then you would assume that it's taken into consideration in any future footballing events.

[steviehibsleith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

He has a criminal conviction for aggressive tax evasion, so he's unable to sit on the board of any club.

Everything wasn't resolved, that's Hun revisionism at its best.

Craig Whyte was allowed to be a Director while under a 7 year directors ban and you think IF king comes back offering millions to take over Sevco the SFA will say sorry we cant allow that you are not a fit and proper person. You are correct and i agree wholeheartedly with you but no way will they would stop him IMO. In fact when questioned by a jounalist he said he had talked to the SFA and they didnt see a issue with him. The spivs and Easdales stopped him by refusing to sell him shares.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Craig Whyte was allowed to be a Director while under a 7 year directors ban and you think IF king comes back offering millions to take over Sevco the SFA will say sorry we cant allow that you are not a fit and proper person. You are correct and i agree wholeheartedly with you but no way will they would stop him IMO. In fact when questioned by a jounalist he said he had talked to the SFA and they didnt see a issue with him. The spivs and Easdales stopped him by refusing to sell him shares.

He said that.

Stewart Reagan said differently.

[ballengeich]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is where I am slightly sceptical about the claims of their demise.

They seem to have burned a lot of cash since they re-started, granted, but IIRC at the AGM they still had c. £10m in the bank. I would have thought that that would be enough to keep them out of insolvency for the time being.

I don't recall any claim that there was £10m remaining at the date of the agm and wouldn't believe such a figure. IIRC, the accounts presented at the agm stated that they had £11m in the bank at 30th June, most of which was 13-14 income received in advance. While the ratio of income to spending has almost certainly improved this season, I think it's unlikely that it could have improved enough for the bank balance to be only £1m down nearly five months after the accounting year end, even disregarding one-off items.

Stockbridge stated that they'd have £1m in the bank in April i.e when the 14-15 income starts coming in. Given his history that may well be optimistic, but I share your scepticism about their imminent demise. I suspect it's touch and go whether they run out of cash in the next few months, but if they're going to have another administration wouldn't the close season be the best time for it?

Here's a suggestion. Could the major shareholders set up a company (let's call it The Ticketus) which makes short-term loans to football clubs with interest rates that Wonga would be embarrassed to ask for? It could lend money to The Rangers on condition that payment was made as soon as season ticket and other income arrives this spring. The people providing the loan make a nice profit and the club completes the season. A quick administration which relieves the company of some high earners follows during the summer and all is barry for the new season.

Is that plausible?

[Deansy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Craig Whyte was allowed to be a Director while under a 7 year directors ban and you think IF king comes back offering millions to take over Sevco the SFA will say sorry we cant allow that you are not a fit and proper person. You are correct and i agree wholeheartedly with you but no way will they would stop him IMO. In fact when questioned by a jounalist he said he had talked to the SFA and they didnt see a issue with him. The spivs and Easdales stopped him by refusing to sell him shares.

Come on - be fair. He wasn't 'allowed' exactly - it just slipped the attention of SDM, the Rangers-Board and the entire massed-ranks of our 'media' (who can normally be relied upon to tell you if Ally/Neil have washed their hands after wiping any given day of the week) - anyone can make mistakes .......

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Come on - be fair. He wasn't 'allowed' exactly - it just slipped the attention of SDM, the Rangers-Board and the entire massed-ranks of our 'media' (who can normally be relied upon to tell you if Ally/Neil have washed their hands after wiping any given day of the week) - anyone can make mistakes .......

The same media that dug out the dirt on Whyte and exposed him on TV and in print?
I think as things stood at the time it was up to the club itself to determine if Whyte was a fit and proper person at the time of his appointment, the procedures were simply useless.

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The same media that dug out the dirt on Whyte and exposed him on TV and in print?
I think as things stood at the time it was up to the club itself to determine if Whyte was a fit and proper person at the time of his appointment, the procedures were simply useless.

I don't remember it like that. I think he was exposed by 'The Internet Morons' long before the MSM. They merely jumped on the bandwagon when it became undeniable how much of a chancer he was. Up until then he was Craig 'wealth-off-the-radar' Whyte, The Whyte Knight, etc.

[Deansy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The same media that dug out the dirt on Whyte and exposed him on TV and in print?
I think as things stood at the time it was up to the club itself to determine if Whyte was a fit and proper person at the time of his appointment, the procedures were simply useless.

Yup, the same media that eventually dug the dirt-up on him. And it was the rangers responsibility but, Iirc, initially threatened court-action against BBC Scot if they went ahead with their 1st programme that (Mark Daly - 'The men who sold the jersey's ?) presented.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't recall any claim that there was £10m remaining at the date of the agm and wouldn't believe such a figure. IIRC, the accounts presented at the agm stated that they had £11m in the bank at 30th June, most of which was 13-14 income received in advance. While the ratio of income to spending has almost certainly improved this season, I think it's unlikely that it could have improved enough for the bank balance to be only £1m down nearly five months after the accounting year end, even disregarding one-off items.

Stockbridge stated that they'd have £1m in the bank in April i.e when the 14-15 income starts coming in. Given his history that may well be optimistic, but I share your scepticism about their imminent demise. I suspect it's touch and go whether they run out of cash in the next few months, but if they're going to have another administration wouldn't the close season be the best time for it?

Here's a suggestion. Could the major shareholders set up a company (let's call it The Ticketus) which makes short-term loans to football clubs with interest rates that Wonga would be embarrassed to ask for? It could lend money to The Rangers on condition that payment was made as soon as season ticket and other income arrives this spring. The people providing the loan make a nice profit and the club completes the season. A quick administration which relieves the company of some high earners follows during the summer and all is barry for the new season.

Is that plausible?

You're probably right about the cash figures; I haven't been paying too much attention to this story recently.

I'll turn your scenario over in my head and get back to you.

[greenginger]

Or, could the threat of a second admin. be used as leverage by the new CEO. in negotiations with the high earners and costly service contracts entered into by former Club directors ?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Or, could the threat of a second admin. be used as leverage by the new CEO. in negotiations with the high earners and costly service contracts entered into by former Club directors ?

The more I think of it, the more I think that the admin story is a bargaining chip. Being used by whom, I'm not clear yet, but your suggestion makes sense.

I still don't see administration as being imminent, but it would be bad governance to dismiss the possibility in the medium term.

[Spike Mandela]

Douglas Fraser (@BBCDouglasF)
14/01/2014 13:42
A lot of activity in #Rangers shares this morning. £660,000 changed hands in 5 trades, with the price sinking further #rfc

[BroxburnHibee]

I haven't been paying much attention to this lately but my brother (sadly a Rangers fan) reckons another admin is almost inevitable.

I hope he's right

[green glory]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I haven't been paying much attention to this lately but my brother (sadly a Rangers fan) reckons another admin is almost inevitable. I hope he's right

It's looking that way. Next month sometime maybe?

Four weeks to get it right
Posted by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain
What is the role of Philip Nash at Rangers International Football Club?

Given the company is hemorrhaging money the appointment of a highly paid consultant (£500 per hour is what I was told was the absolute minimum going rate for such chaps) it is a bit puzzling.

During his stint at Liverpool some Anfield insiders dubbed him “Philip Gash”.

So the scaffold has been built and the axe man is ready to take his place at the block.

I think he may play the same role as Donald Muir who has placed on the board of Rangers by Lloyds banking group on 2009.

For the fans he became “the enemy within”.

If Mr Nash can play this role then there is some logic to him being involved, on a consultative basis, with Sevco.

He will have real work to do there.

If you recall dear reader I have been writing for over a year that only austerity will save Sevco from insolvency.

The new club is, of course, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Rangers International football club.

Last week the RIFC share price went south at alarming rate.

Today as I write this their value continues to tumble as millions of shares were traded this morning.

Alarming that is if you bought into the deal at the IPO price.

These should be worrying times for the regular customers at Ibrox.

They’ve been there with Rangers and they can go there again with Sevco.

Graham Wallace’s main task now is to get the company in a fit state so as to prevent an insolvency event.

If, between them, Nash and Wallace can come up with a plan then they would be advised to start with a Pareto Analysis and in that you start with the biggest costs not with the smallest ones.

Any such examination of the financial woes of the new clumpany will quickly reveal that Super Ally has the biggest portion of the available pie.

As was reported here the much trailed 50% pay cut offer had not taken place even though the usual lamb outlets were stating it as a fact.

Now that Super Ally’s generous offer has finally been actioned the belt tightening can begin in earnest.

Graham Wallace, ably assisted by Philip Nash, cannot delay any further in implementing this massive cost cutting programme, a process that will resemble an insolvency event, which will be needed along with a significant price hike in Season Tickets.

Given the credentials of Graham Wallace I think, finally there is some competence in the Blue Room and he’ll do what needs to be done to steady the ship.

The downsizing will be significant and there really is no alternative.

The next four weeks will be vital for continuation of Project Sevco.

Mr Stockbridge , with Nash looking over his shoulder, will have to have the abacus going at an incredible rate as they calculate if there is enough liquidity for redundancy payments while keeping this entity alive

Unless severe austerity can be shown within that time period to the chaps in the Square Mile then there is little chance of raising the necessary finance to keep this loss making show on the road.

It would be beyond parody if something significant were to befall Rangers International Football Club and their loss making subsidiary Sevco exactly one month from now.

Yet again, the clock is ticking. As the shares plummet and a cash transfusion the only way for survival Friday, February 14th may be a red, white and blue letter day.

Roses are red, violets are blue the P45 in the post is just for you!

[The_Todd]

As much as I find the Rangers\Newco ongoing saga amusing, I think Phil McGoblin or whatever he's called, is taking it too far. I find him a bit cringeworthy, tbh.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As much as I find the Rangers\Newco ongoing saga amusing, I think Phil McGoblin or whatever he's called, is taking it too far. I find him a bit cringeworthy, tbh.

"Taking it too far" in what respect? I agree that his language is a bit OTT at times... but I agree with the sentiment.

I was just having a similar conversation earlier today. As PM says, there really is no alternative to cost-cutting. Even at that, I am not sure that that will be enough to save them; again, as he says, the redundancy costs will be crippling.

I'm not convinced that insolvency is imminent, but the possibility has to be addressed.

[PatHead]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As much as I find the Rangers\Newco ongoing saga amusing, I think Phil McGoblin or whatever he's called, is taking it too far. I find him a bit cringeworthy, tbh.

How is he taking it too far? Surely he is pointing out that The Rangers are losing cash at an alarming rate. It cannot continue and if it does they are going back to square one 2 years to the day after the original administration. Nothing wrong with that.

Whats with Phil McGoblin- bit cringeworthy is it not?

[The_Todd]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

"Taking it too far" in what respect? I agree that his language is a bit OTT at times... but I agree with the sentiment.

I was just having a similar conversation earlier today. As PM says, there really is no alternative to cost-cutting. Even at that, I am not sure that that will be enough to save them; again, as he says, the redundancy costs will be crippling.

I'm not convinced that insolvency is imminent, but the possibility has to be addressed.

In the way you meant. He's not objectively reporting on the situation, I just find his whole style cringey: his language, the way he changed his name to something "more Irish", the way he moved "back" to Ireland (despite being from Glasgow). He is everything anti-Rangers, he's almost a parody of a Celtic fan you'd be more likely to see in "Only an Excuse?"

I know we're not exactly objective about Hearts (or Rangers, for that matter), but this is a fan's forum. We don't claim to be serious grown-up journalists.

Does he ever talk about Celtic?