Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Aldo]

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you are just nitpicking. half those games were against very wee clubs. big clubs do not do those kind of scores against them

Drat!! Sussed!!! Me and my nitpicking. :-D

[PapillonVert]

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After a general browse around KB, I can't help feeling that the heads are beginning to go down. Friday's 'lift' seems to be levelling out and today's humiliation and the prospect of another thumping from D Utd next weekend has definitely dampened spirits. This surprises me as prior to today they have always displayed a brave and more often than not defiant, arrogant posture. A few more bad results, the limbo period of their CVA and the constant demand for cash sacrifices might break their resolve once and for all. As one who has always had reservations about the extent of their demise, my hopes are definitely being risen to a new level.

They're finding out what a level playing field looks like and, for the cheats, it's not a pretty sight.

No more financial doping allowed. The cheating days are over.

[Berwickhibby]

Please excuse my ignorance, it may have been covered earlier in this thread. But if the CVA is agreed does that also absolve the ****bos of the outstanding debt owed to HMRC. I was under the impression that the repayment agreement was with HMFC not UBIG

[greenlex]

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Please excuse my ignorance, it may have been covered earlier in this thread. But if the CVA is agreed does that also absolve the ****bos of the outstanding debt owed to HMRC. I was under the impression that the repayment agreement was with HMFC not UBIG

HMRC are part of the CVA That BDO have managed to get agreed .

[Jim44]

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HMRC are part of the CVA That BDO have managed to get agreed .

........ and will receive the princely sum of sod all like many of the other creditors, some of whom, despite being regally shafted, still offer them their services and no doubt will continue to do so.

[jacomo]

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TBF to Bryan Jackson, he didn't say that they will need more money. He said that, if they start to run out of money in March/April, they will need to go back to the fans. The administration is not insolvent yet. Were they, there could be only one way to go.

They may yet assess the situation in the light of the UBIG issues and decide to cut staff in order to ease the pressure. He said in the interview that the cash flow is fluid... that they have had some unexpected income, but that there could be some negative situations as well.

Main variables being how long Hearts stay in the cups and how many punters turn up for home games.

Just a guess, but I don't think it's going as well as they would hope.

[Caversham Green]

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You're right, the only quote I can find is from JKB;

Just a wee update from Lithuania. One of the proposed modifications to the CVA from Lithuania reads as follows.
"The costs and expenses of the joint administrators (so far as they are unpaid) shall be settled partially from any outstanding trading recipts at the point of the joint administrators discharge from office" ie the payment to BDO can be deferred until we have the money. As I read it we pay BDO and it doesn't come out of the CVA money as previously thought.

It made sense to me so I probably just accepted it, but maybe should be taken with a pinch of salt.

As I read that it means that some of BDO's fees will be paid out of any profit/cash raised while the club is in administration.

In any event it strikes me as a very naïve move by FoH since it means that a proportion of their post-administration working capital - which is going to be extremely tight in any case - will be going to BDO. Furthermore, the amount they will have to pay is open-ended unless BDO have put an immutable cap on their fees (and I don't believe for a minute that they have).

[Weststandwanab]

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As I read that it means that some of BDO's fees will be paid out of any profit/cash raised while the club is in administration.

In any event it strikes me as a very naïve move by FoH since it means that a proportion of their post-administration working capital - which is going to be extremely tight in any case - will be going to BDO. Furthermore, the amount they will have to pay is open-ended unless BDO have put an immutable cap on their fees (and I don't believe for a minute that they have).

CG they did not cap because BJ feared all along that it would not be a quick CVA if it was agreed at all. Yesterday's result was bad for BDO and F.O.H. and I suspect both will have to move positions to keep this particular ship afloat cash wise whilst the Liths consider what to do.

[Caversham Green]

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CG they did not cap because BJ feared all along that it would not be a quick CVA if it was agreed at all. Yesterday's result was bad for BDO and F.O.H. and I suspect both will have to move positions to keep this particular ship afloat cash wise whilst the Liths consider what to do.

That makes sense - capping fees for an unquantified job would be very foolish, and BDO are no fools.

[FitbaFolkKen]

In all this one thing I don't understand is has Bob Jamieson come back on the scene again?

[Gus Fring]

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In all this one thing I don't understand is has Bob Jamieson come back on the scene again?

Yes and he's apparently trying to buy the UBIG shares.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yes and he's apparently trying to buy the UBIG shares.

Really?

Missed this. So, bring me up to speed....

If BDO don't get hold of the UBIG shares, for whatever reason, the CVA fails. If Jamieson then buys those shares, he's bought a white turkey.

The only way I can see such a move succeeding is if there is a new CVA, with him as the new bidder.

Unless I have missed something, this doesn't make sense to me.

[jacomo]

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In all this one thing I don't understand is has Bob Jamieson come back on the scene again?

Alluded to in this story:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...main-1-3215406

The Scotsman can't even name Bob Jamieson, unless that somehow improves his chances! After all the free advertising they've given FoH, they are no doubt oozing with seethe at this development.

Our local media have entirely given up reporting this story in any meaningful way - it's now just a propaganda rag for FoH.

[Gus Fring]

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Really?

Missed this. So, bring me up to speed....

If BDO don't get hold of the UBIG shares, for whatever reason, the CVA fails. If Jamieson then buys those shares, he's bought a white turkey.

The only way I can see such a move succeeding is if there is a new CVA, with him as the new bidder.

Unless I have missed something, this doesn't make sense to me.

This all came out before the CVA was agreed so it may have changed now but judging by the comments he has been making on Facebook etc he doesn't give a toss about the CVA or FOH. He wants control of Hearts.

[Weststandwanab]

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This all came out before the CVA was agreed so it may have changed now but judging by the comments he has been making on Facebook etc he doesn't give a toss about the CVA or FOH. He wants control of Hearts.

Post 32889 is my guess what he may be up to.

[CropleyWasGod]

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This all came out before the CVA was agreed so it may have changed now but judging by the comments he has been making on Facebook etc he doesn't give a toss about the CVA or FOH. He wants control of Hearts.

Hmmm, still not sure I get it. If he, say, makes a better offer for the UBIG shares than FOH do, he migh get the shares. But the CVA will fail, and the shares will be worthless.

Perhaps he is trying to force liquidation.... just by being there, he could delay the CVA to the point where there is no cash left. He might then be able to gain control of the new company.

Maybe he's just a mentalist.

WestStand, gonny cut and paste your post... I can't see post numbers. Ta.

[Gus Fring]

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Hmmm, still not sure I get it. If he, say, makes a better offer for the UBIG shares than FOH do, he migh get the shares. But the CVA will fail, and the shares will be worthless.

Perhaps he is trying to force liquidation.... just by being there, he could delay the CVA to the point where there is no cash left. He might then be able to gain control of the new company.

Maybe he's just a mentalist.

WestStand, gonny cut and paste your post... I can't see post numbers. Ta.

He doesn't like the FOH, he's made that clear. Perhaps he was doing it to scupper the CVA but now that it's been approved he may have changed his mind or come up with a new plan. He's been quiet over the weekend so I'm not sure.

[Weststandwanab]

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Hmmm, still not sure I get it. If he, say, makes a better offer for the UBIG shares than FOH do, he migh get the shares. But the CVA will fail, and the shares will be worthless.

Perhaps he is trying to force liquidation.... just by being there, he could delay the CVA to the point where there is no cash left. He might then be able to gain control of the new company.

Maybe he's just a mentalist.

WestStand, gonny cut and paste your post... I can't see post numbers. Ta.

Post 889 read as below but that was really me thinking about STF. If you substitute STF for cuddly Bob, I still think it is a slim possibility.

Ok, here is how I would see that scenario. CVA fails and whomever has bought the shares offers to buy the PBS from BJ and offers to rent the stadium to F.O.H. providing they can acquire the football club from BJ and they become the landlords to the Jambos. That would probably ensure their inferiority in Edinburgh for decades for the princely sum of a few Million quid. Now if only someone Hibs minded had that sort of dough !

[brog]

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You're right, the only quote I can find is from JKB;

Just a wee update from Lithuania. One of the proposed modifications to the CVA from Lithuania reads as follows.
"The costs and expenses of the joint administrators (so far as they are unpaid) shall be settled partially from any outstanding trading recipts at the point of the joint administrators discharge from office" ie the payment to BDO can be deferred until we have the money. As I read it we pay BDO and it doesn't come out of the CVA money as previously thought.

It made sense to me so I probably just accepted it, but maybe should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Thanks for this, I have to say the form of wording sounds official enough but I agree with Cav's interpretation & analysis of the statement. To summarise, if Yams make a profit while in administration then that profit will be set off against BDO fees, an unusual solution. As Cav says though it illustrates the naivety of F of H allowing an open ended commitment such as this. I also agree with Cav & others, & posted a while back that I really don't see BDO accepting a cap on their fees.
After a shaky start, turned out to be a bit of a Carlsberg weekend!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Post 889 read as below but that was really me thinking about STF. If you substitute STF for cuddly Bob, I still think it is a slim possibility.

Ok, here is how I would see that scenario. CVA fails and whomever has bought the shares offers to buy the PBS from BJ and offers to rent the stadium to F.O.H. providing they can acquire the football club from BJ and they become the landlords to the Jambos. That would probably ensure their inferiority in Edinburgh for decades for the princely sum of a few Million quid. Now if only someone Hibs minded had that sort of dough !

But the buyer of the shares will have bought something that is worthless. That's the bit I don't get.

The rest makes sense.

[brog]

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Hmmm, still not sure I get it. If he, say, makes a better offer for the UBIG shares than FOH do, he migh get the shares. But the CVA will fail, and the shares will be worthless.

Perhaps he is trying to force liquidation.... just by being there, he could delay the CVA to the point where there is no cash left. He might then be able to gain control of the new company.

Maybe he's just a mentalist.

WestStand, gonny cut and paste your post... I can't see post numbers. Ta.

Seems no doubt it is Bob from comments made by BJ. I assumed he was trying to force liquidation or somehow make a quick buck (unlikely) on the shares. Just part of the never-ending fun to be had from the circus in Gorgie!

[Weststandwanab]

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But the buyer of the shares will have bought something that is worthless. That's the bit I don't get.

The rest makes sense.

As I suggested yesterday there is time for the two deals to be done simultaneously one entity buys the shares and the stadium and the other (F.O.H.) buys the club and what is left. The latter rents the PBS from the former. If I was Cuddly Bob/STF that is what I would try.

[CropleyWasGod]

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As I suggested yesterday there is time for the two deals to be done simultaneously one entity buys the shares and the stadium and the other (F.O.H.) buys the club and what is left. The latter rents the PBS from the former. If I was Cuddly Bob/STF that is what I would try.

Don't follow.

If someone buys the shares (as FOH are currently trying to do through the CVA), they gain control of the company... which means they have the stadium and club etc.

[Gus Fring]

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Don't follow.

If someone buys the shares (as FOH are currently trying to do through the CVA), they gain control of the company... which means they have the stadium and club etc.

All Bobs dealings happened before the CVA was approved

What if Bob buys the UBIG shares for £1m causing the CVA to fail. He then offers another CVA with exactly the same terms, thereby gaining control of everything and shafting FOH in the process? He could feasibly then go back to FOH and say "give me £5m and I'll sell you the lot" making himself a tidy profit in the process.

[Weststandwanab]

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Don't follow.

If someone buys the shares (as FOH are currently trying to do through the CVA), they gain control of the company... which means they have the stadium and club etc.

A.N. Other "offers" the Liths say £xm for the Shares and the PBS and a yes to a CVA, whilst simultaneously BJ persuades F.O.H. to do a C.V.A. without the stadium and to rent the stadium annually from A. N. Other. or words to that effect !

[CropleyWasGod]

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All Bobs dealings happened before the CVA was approved

What if Bob buys the UBIG shares for £1m causing the CVA to fail. He then offers another CVA with exactly the same terms, thereby gaining control of everything and shafting FOH in the process? He could feasibly then go back to FOH and say "give me £5m and I'll sell you the lot" making himself a tidy profit in the process.

A dangerous path.

1. if the CVA fails, BDO would be in their rights to start the liquidation process, leaving him with a turkey that he has just paid £1m for.

2. even if he does attempt a new CVA, I don't think that he has enough time to make it work before the money runs out.

[CropleyWasGod]

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A.N. Other "offers" the Liths say £xm for the Shares and the PBS and a yes to a CVA, whilst simultaneously BJ persuades F.O.H. to do a C.V.A. without the stadium and to rent the stadium annually from A. N. Other. or words to that effect !

I think I see but, as with Bajillion's suggestion, I don't see it as workable given the lack of time and money. It would be a completely new CVA.

[Weststandwanab]

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I think I see but, as with Bajillion's suggestion, I don't see it as workable given the lack of time and money. It would be a completely new CVA.

I accept my suggestion is difficult and unorthodox but with difficult times comes strange solutions if all sides want to find a solution acceptable to all. I have tried to think if I was advising STF how to acquire the PBS and rent it to the Direct Debiters and that is what I think I would try. Equally if could work for a delusional Cuddly Bob.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I accept my suggestion is difficult and unorthodox but with difficult times comes strange solutions if all sides want to find a solution acceptable to all. I have tried to think if I was advising STF how to acquire the PBS and rent it to the Direct Debiters and that is what I think I would try. Equally if could work for a delusional Cuddly Bob.

Either would be as well waiting for liquidation, and then renting it to them.

[Weststandwanab]

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Either would be as well waiting for liquidation, and then renting it to them.

That is undoubtedly true but one is a bampot who like the limelight - and probably would not be using his money and the other may feel it is in the better interest of Hibernian F.C. and either of them take away the "issues" with the big L.