Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Weststandwanab]

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OK, the work I do requires a logical mind so I've decided to apply it to the Hearts CVA. Here's my summation and a possible logical extra parameter that could give an alternative result.


1) FoH currently rely on the UBIG Admins saying yes to the CVA

2) The UBIG Admins responsibility is to gain the most money they can to make up for the millions of losses they currently face.

3) FoH have so far offered them a grand total of Zero.

4) Result: UBIG have to decide between: A - Saying yes and getting Zero via the CVA. B - Saying No and getting Zero via Liquidation.

I do believe that is called Hobson's Choice (i.e. No choice at all)


Let's just, for the sake of argument, add an extra option in step 4...

4) ..... C - A third party offers them more than FoH for the shares, which they are obliged to accept, given Number 2 (above).


Suddenly, there's a possible different outcome. Now, if only we could find a Third Party willing to offer money to UBIG for the shares. Hibs.net perhaps......

Like an off shore company and backed by STF ?

[Keith_M]

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Like an off shore company and backed by STF ?

[Col2]

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OK, the work I do requires a logical mind so I've decided to apply it to the Hearts CVA. Here's my summation and a possible logical extra parameter that could give an alternative result.


1) FoH currently rely on the UBIG Admins saying yes to the CVA

2) The UBIG Admins responsibility is to gain the most money they can to make up for the millions of losses they currently face.

3) FoH have so far offered them a grand total of Zero.

4) Result: UBIG have to decide between: A - Saying yes and getting Zero via the CVA. B - Saying No and getting Zero via Liquidation.

I do believe that is called Hobson's Choice (i.e. No choice at all)


Let's just, for the sake of argument, add an extra option in step 4...

4) ..... C - A third party offers them more than FoH for the shares, which they are obliged to accept, given Number 2 (above).


Suddenly, there's a possible different outcome. Now, if only we could find a Third Party willing to offer money to UBIG for the shares. Hibs.net perhaps......

If Sideshow Bob or whoever buy the UBIG shares, what advantage do they have when the CVA fails? Is it certain liquidation and they become worthless or can they be used as part of a counter bid to get the club / SFA registration etc and but ground separately? I gess what i am asking is why would anyone but them?

[Keith_M]

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If Sideshow Bob or whoever buy the UBIG shares, what advantage do they have when the CVA fails? Is it certain liquidation and they become worthless or can they be used as part of a counter bid to get the club / SFA registration etc and but ground separately? I gess what i am asking is why would anyone but them?

Why would Hibs fans buy them? I'm sure you could think of a reason.

[Treadstone]

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If I'm reading this thread correctly the Save Hearts In Trouble offer is £2.5m.

Of that money, the first chunk will go on paying BDO for their hard work in saving the Yams. The balance will then be split between UKIO in exchange for the security over the PBS and a small amount to UBIG for their shares?

But doesn't that mean that UBIG will be getting a preference over the other shareholders and creditors if they receive something? Is that preference legal? And what value can their shares have, now that the votes have taken place?

The £2.5m is for the CVA, the UBIG shares in HoMFC would have to be negotiated (and paid for) separate of this pot.

[SurferRosa]

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Its now clear they originally intended to vote against the CVA & were persuaded to abstain by BJ. They may also have realised they now have sole leverage with the shares. This will run & run!

Sorry, i must have missed something. What evidence found or statement given proves this?

[Weststandwanab]

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No I am serious !

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If Sideshow Bob or whoever buy the UBIG shares, what advantage do they have when the CVA fails? Is it certain liquidation and they become worthless or can they be used as part of a counter bid to get the club / SFA registration etc and but ground separately? I gess what i am asking is why would anyone but them?

Ok, here is how I would see that scenario. CVA fails and whomever has bought the shares offers to buy the PBS from BJ and offers to rent the stadium to F.O.H. providing they can acquire the football club from BJ and they become the landlords to the Jambos. That would probably ensure their inferiority in Edinburgh for decades for the princely sum of a few Million quid. Now if only someone Hibs minded had that sort of dough !

[CropleyWasGod]

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No I am serious !

Ok, here is how I would see that scenario. CVA fails and whomever has bought the shares offers to buy the PBS from BJ and offers to rent the stadium to F.O.H. providing they can acquire the football club from BJ and they become the landlords to the Jambos. That would probably ensure their inferiority in Edinburgh for decades for the princely sum of a few Million quid. Now if only someone Hibs minded had that sort of dough !

If the CVA fails, it's liquidation.

[Just Alf]

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Sorry, i must have missed something. What evidence found or statement given proves this?

I think it's the press statement from BDO (Brian J) .... Basically he said they were negotiating late on Thursday with UBIG and successfully managed to get them to abstain. .... Think it was the Scotsman that reported it.

[Weststandwanab]

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If the CVA fails, it's liquidation.

Indeed but someone, with that idea in mind, and time until January to negotiate a variance of that with a four way agreement could pull that off ! Sevco was a five way agreement.

[Keith_M]

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If the CVA fails, it's liquidation.

Yes, but weststand's scenario could still come to fruition, in that the assets would then be sold separately.


However, my 'proposal' is cheaper and much simpler. Buy the UBIG shares for a few hundred grand then sit on them while Hearts go into Liquidation.

Et Voila, Mercer's dream of 'One City, One Team' is finally realised and, if the purchaser just happened to own or support that one remaining team, money well spent.

[SurferRosa]

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I think it's the press statement from BDO (Brian J) .... Basically he said they were negotiating late on Thursday with UBIG and successfully managed to get them to abstain. .... Think it was the Scotsman that reported it.

OK Thanks. That seems clear enough.

I`m no a reader of that particular paper.

[Keith_M]

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OK Thanks. That seems clear enough.

I`m no a reader of that particular paper.

Yep, it's a bit too much 'Better Together' for my liking as well.

[Just Alf]

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OK Thanks. That seems clear enough.

I`m no a reader of that particular paper.

Lol

Me neither ..... Mind you, if it's "good" news about them, I read everything! :D

[Sanger]

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So about £8 for every man, woman and child in Lithuania, + £3 million to pay their taxes and other creditors. Well played Hearts :******:

The total cost as I have detailed here several times is £70 million because of all the debt forgiveness and debt to equity tricks that Romanov pulled over the years. Nearly 25% of the Lith state's bailout of Ukio.

[Hibrandenburg]

Might be a simplistic view and I confess to knowing nothing about the administration process other than that what I've gained on here, however I do have several years experience in negotiations and smell a rat.

If the Lithuanians are under pressure to come out of this with not only the best deal possible for their guys but also to keep a diplomatically clean shirt, then maybe they're playing good cop bad cop.

It's possible that they're concerned about their image and want UKIO to play good cop and play along giving the impression that they're doing all they can to assist our Yamish neighbours get out of this hole created by the nasty Lithuanian submarine commander. UBIG on the other hand are the bad cops who eventually scupper the whole deal meaning liquidation and the highest return for the Liths and the diplomatic shirt is still relatively clean due to UKIO having tried their best to save them.

Win win situation for the Liths!

[Weststandwanab]

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Yes, but weststand's scenario could still come to fruition, in that the assets would then be sold separately.


However, my 'proposal' is cheaper and much simpler. Buy the UBIG shares for a few hundred grand then sit on them while Hearts go into Liquidation.

Et Voila, Mercer's dream of 'One City, One Team' is finally realised and, if the purchaser just happened to own or support that one remaining team, money well spent.

True, and that would be great as a Hibby but my scenario would mean no loss of a couple of hundred big ones and possible control over the rent payable for the PBS for decades to come !

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Yep, it's a bit too much 'Better Together' for my liking as well.

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The total cost as I have detailed here several times is £70 million because of all the debt forgiveness and debt to equity tricks that Romanov pulled over the years. Nearly 25% of the Lith state's bailout of Ukio.

You are correct but whether if is £8, or £80, a head it is disgraceful.

[Weststandwanab]

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Might be a simplistic view and I confess to knowing nothing about the administration process other than that what I've gained on here, however I do have several years experience in negotiations and smell a rat.

If the Lithuanians are under pressure to come out of this with not only the best deal possible for their guys but also to keep a diplomatically clean shirt, then maybe they're playing good cop bad cop.

It's possible that they're concerned about their image and want UKIO to play good cop and play along giving the impression that they're doing all they can to assist our Yamish neighbours get out of this hole created by the nasty Lithuanian submarine commander. UBIG on the other hand are the bad cops who eventually scupper the whole deal meaning liquidation and the highest return for the Liths and the diplomatic shirt is still relatively clean due to UKIO having tried their best to save them.

Win win situation for the Liths!

I think this is a distinct possibility.

[Crazyhorse]

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I think this is a distinct possibility.

I do hope you are right but is it not the two set of lith administrators who would have to be in league with each other to arrange this?

[brog]

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Might be a simplistic view and I confess to knowing nothing about the administration process other than that what I've gained on here, however I do have several years experience in negotiations and smell a rat.

If the Lithuanians are under pressure to come out of this with not only the best deal possible for their guys but also to keep a diplomatically clean shirt, then maybe they're playing good cop bad cop.

It's possible that they're concerned about their image and want UKIO to play good cop and play along giving the impression that they're doing all they can to assist our Yamish neighbours get out of this hole created by the nasty Lithuanian submarine commander. UBIG on the other hand are the bad cops who eventually scupper the whole deal meaning liquidation and the highest return for the Liths and the diplomatic shirt is still relatively clean due to UKIO having tried their best to save them.

Win win situation for the Liths!

i said much the same in #32879 . I think it's a tad too Machiavellian to happen but would be pleasing!

[Weststandwanab]

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I do hope you are right but is it not the two set of lith administrators who would have to be in league with each other to arrange this?

Anything is possible now I would not rule it out.

[Gus Fring]

Now might be a good time to ask if there are still people who think Hearts have gotten away with it?

[Heisenberg]

Only 7k Hearts fans in attendance today. Pretty abysmal.

[jonty]

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Now might be a good time to ask if there are still people who think Hearts have gotten away with it?

Only if results like this continue.
Its just a shame it wasn't a league game and goes towards their goal difference.

[c31]

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Now might be a good time to ask if there are still people who think Hearts have gotten away with it?

They are still allowed to play and use the ground whilst many have lost out financially so until they are shut down then yes I think they are getting away with it.

[Gus Fring]

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Only if results like this continue.
Its just a shame it wasn't a league game and goes towards their goal difference.

this is will hurt them more financially. That horrible attendance is split which makes it worse and now they've lost all the income a cup run brings.

Hearts are 14 points adrift. I can't see them not being relegated unless Killie enter administration.

[basehibby]

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If the CVA fails, it's liquidation.

I still cannot for the life of me get my head round how UBIG can possibly vote for anything other than Hearts' liquidation.

AS I understand it, under a CVA they will get zilch as UKIO holds 6.5M security over Tynie - yet Tynie is thought to be worth considerably more than that if sold on the open market to build say flats or a nice new supermarket.

Surely that means that UBIG MUST vote against a CVA in the hope that the sale of Tynie raises significantly more than 6.5M - the remainder of which, UBIG will be entitled to a significant slice of, so ensuring they honour their duty towards the Lithuanian tax payers, which the Jambos seem to think so little of ripping off to pay for their tainted cup victories.

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but can someone enlighten me as to why FOH are considered to be still at the races with their bid for a CVA

[Gus Fring]

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I still cannot for the life of me get my head round how UBIG can possibly vote for anything other than Hearts' liquidation.

AS I understand it, under a CVA they will get zilch as UKIO holds 6.5M security over Tynie - yet Tynie is thought to be worth considerably more than that if sold on the open market to build say flats or a nice new supermarket.

Surely that means that UBIG MUST vote against a CVA in the hope that the sale of Tynie raises significantly more than 6.5M - the remainder of which, UBIG will be entitled to a significant slice of, so ensuring they honour their duty towards the Lithuanian tax payers, which the Jambos seem to think so little of ripping off to pay for their tainted cup victories.

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but can someone enlighten me as to why FOH are considered to be still at the races with their bid for a CVA

The CVA has been approved. UBIG abstained.

The question now is not if the CVA will fail but whether UBIG will let the FOH have the shares for nowt. They may not be worth anything to anyone else (except maybe Bob Jamieson or similar) but they are worth something to FOH. UBIGs administrator has nothing to lose by demanding a couple of million for them.

[Aldo]

Found this earlier



image-2928268189.jpg

[Jack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ite...e_gdata_player