Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Dashing Bob S]

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So, our best hope now is that FOH is actually a mad house, where no real decisions get made because too many people have to have their say? Just wait till its time for blazers and seats on the team bus to be allocated.

Seriously, how much sense can a group of fans bring to the table? Given Yam arrogance you have to wonder how long before they are fighting over whether to sign Rudi, or pay the electricity bill. Having gotten off with paying their debts once, what's to stop them going back to old ways?

I pray that this CVO goes through and group of reasonable fans, with sound leadership, and an innovative and sound financial structure behind them, can seize the reins of this great institution.

[jacomo]

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I don't think Murray will stick around for long either, with the referendum and (if the no campaign wins) the general election coming up. He'll take the credit if and when the FOH takeover is agreed and then ride off into the sunset. No political gain in actually running a football club, as opposed to trying to save it.

My bet is that the CVA will be approved, but the administration will drag on for a bit longer than the minimum period (four weeks) due to legal issues with securing the shares.

I always wondered what Murray thought he was getting out of this by getting involved. By agreeing to become chair of FoH his fate is now defined by their success or failure.

In the very best scenario (for him), he rescues Hearts from immediate danger but then either leaves or hangs around as the club gets relegated and adjusts to a very different reality, without a sugar daddy pumping in funds from elsewhere. Meanwhile, he's not done himself any favours with the green half of the city.

[Geo_1875]

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I always wondered what Murray thought he was getting out of this by getting involved. By agreeing to become chair of FoH his fate is now defined by their success or failure.

In the very best scenario (for him), he rescues Hearts from immediate danger but then either leaves or hangs around as the club gets relegated and adjusts to a very different reality, without a sugar daddy pumping in funds from elsewhere. Meanwhile, he's not done himself any favours with the green half of the city.

They might employ him when his arse gets kicked out of Westminster. Though what he's qualified to do I don't know.

[Dashing Bob S]

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'lucky' on the PM board alluded to such a situation on Sunday afternoon.

Yes, he's a total arse of a man but has the politicians nose for claiming credit and avoiding disaster. He will want to disentangle himself as soon as possible from the financial and administrative holocaust that will be the FOH CVA, if it ever comes to pass. Watch out for 'parliamentary commitments' suddenly becoming more pressing.

[Treadstone]

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Yes, he's a total arse of a man but has the politicians nose for claiming credit and avoiding disaster. He will want to disentangle himself as soon as possible from the financial and administrative holocaust that will be the FOH CVA, if it ever comes to pass. Watch out for 'parliamentary commitments' suddenly becoming more pressing.

I'm sure there is a list Bob. "Misdemeanours and Actions"

Affair = "Spend more time with family"
Criminal trial = "Fight to clear my name"
Overlooked for promotion = "Political differences"

Ian Murray could be the debut for a new entry : Jumping from a financial basket case as internal bun fight ensues.

[bingo70]

http://www.foundationofhearts.org/ch...-email-update/

It’s been a few weeks since I last wrote to you. Much has been going on, not least moving towards the CVA meetings scheduled for 22nd November and 29th November.

This process is led by BDO as the administrators of Heart of Midlothian plc.

The past few weeks have been frustrating whilst we have been awaiting the appropriate legal processes to be concluded in Lithuania. It is an incredibly complicated process and we are grateful for the patience of the supporters at this time. I thought it may also be worth giving a little explanation to you on how the process works.

• The Creditors Meeting will take place on 22nd November
  
• In order for a CVA to proceed it requires acceptance by at least 75% of the creditors
  
• Creditor votes are determined by percentage of debt – therefore Ukio Bankas and UBIG are they key creditors (with over 80% of the value of the debt between them) – if they vote in favour, this part of the CVA can proceed
  
• The Members/Shareholders Meeting is set for 29th November
  
• In order for the CVA to proceed at this time, 50% of shareholders must pass the proposal
  
• Votes are determined by percentage of shares – therefore because UBIG and Ukio Bankas account for 79.9% of the shareholding they are again key to acceptance of the proposal
  
• Should both meetings proceed as noted above there will then be a 30 day cooling off period
  
• After that time BDO can begin the process of taking Hearts out of administration, although this tends to take a few more weeks

This week we also announced that Alex Mackie and Donald Ford have stepped down from the board of the Foundation.

Both played a big part in establishing the ethos of the Foundation of Hearts, and we are pleased they will continue to support the project to lead Scottish football’s biggest ever supporter movement.

The Foundation of Hearts will continue to evolve, as is necessary to deal with each of the challenges to save, stabilise, and secure the club’s future.

If a CVA is agreed, and all the necessary legal requirements are satisfied we should then be in a position to explain a bit more about plans going forward, particularly in the short term.

Your support is absolutely critical. Without the backing of over 7,600 contributors we would not be in a position where Hearts can eventually have a brighter future.

We will be announcing some exciting initiatives in the near future and we will communicate with you all when more information is available.

Is there anything new in this or does this clear anything up?

[Geo_1875]

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http://www.foundationofhearts.org/ch...-email-update/

Is there anything new in this or does this clear anything up?

This is typical yam bollox. At the top it says the Chairman wrote to the 7,600 contributors yet the body of the letter refers to "over 7,600". He also refers to "Scottish football's biggest ever supporter movement". Any OF home match is a bigger supporter movement than FoH unless he's talking about the amount of **** produced.

[Dashing Bob S]

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http://www.foundationofhearts.org/ch...-email-update/




Is there anything new in this or does this clear anything up?

The telling line:

Should both meetings proceed as noted above there will then be a 30 day cooling off period.

That one caveat of fearful reality sandwiched in-between a load of pap PR speak.

[Weststandwanab]

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The telling line:

Should both meetings proceed as noted above there will then be a 30 day cooling off period.

That one caveat of fearful reality sandwiched in-between a load of pap PR speak.

Absolutely correct and hotly followed by if....

[Onceinawhile]

I think the last few pages of this thread have descended into serious green tinted glasses territory.

It now looks about 95 per cent certain the cva will be approved and Hmfc will be out of admin by the end of this season, with a debt of circa 4 million and probably playing in the championship.

The idea they won't come back up is fanciful though. Even with the debt repayments they will easily have the second biggest budget in their league and will make the play offs. They'll probably win them too.

I think bajillions and sergey are being wildly over optimistic and perhaps allowin their club allegiances to bias whatever information their 'sources' are telling them.

Is relegation a suitable punishment for stiffing creditors for 25 million? Probably not, but thems the rules and people are going to have to suck it up soon.

Will happily be proved wrong, but liquidation is not going to happen and neither is the dds reducing to nil.

[jacomo]

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I think the last few pages of this thread have descended into serious green tinted glasses territory.

It now looks about 95 per cent certain the cva will be approved and Hmfc will be out of admin by the end of this season, with a debt of circa 4 million and probably playing in the championship.

The idea they won't come back up is fanciful though. Even with the debt repayments they will easily have the second biggest budget in their league and will make the play offs. They'll probably win them too.

I think bajillions and sergey are being wildly over optimistic and perhaps allowin their club allegiances to bias whatever information their 'sources' are telling them.

Is relegation a suitable punishment for stiffing creditors for 25 million? Probably not, but thems the rules and people are going to have to suck it up soon.

Will happily be proved wrong, but liquidation is not going to happen and neither is the dds reducing to nil.

I agree with you. Football clubs often seem to bounce back from impending doom and it is surely likely that the CVA will be accepted. BDO have been in contact with the relevant people in Lithuania for months, they would surely be ringing the alarm bell loudly if they thought it would be rejected.

I am sure the process of picking through Vlads house of cards will take years, but what's stopping them cashing in on Hearts for £2.5m and holding the cash in a designated account til they work out who has the biggest claim on it. It's a paltry sum compared to Hearts debts, but mabe they just want shot of their problem in Edinburgh?

Long term, however, Hearts have serious issues with their home ground, as laid out by the Pie Man a decade ago.

[Keith_M]

I was just wondering how much it would cost them to get the stadium up to scratch and the Main Stand surely has to be the first place they start.

Does anyone know how much it cost Hibs to build the new Main Stand? I realise it's over a decade ago now but it would give some idea of how much it would cost for them to build something similar.

The problem for them is that as soon as they start any re-build, the rule kicks in that requires them to make their stadium UEFA compliant (if they ever want to play in Europe again). This is why Hibs had to increase the size of the pitch, among other things, when building the new East Stand. That''ll be a few million more to add to the bill, and a probable reduction in the capacity of the stands behind each goal.

[Arch Stanton]

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I think the last few pages of this thread have descended into serious green tinted glasses territory.

It now looks about 95 per cent certain the cva will be approved and Hmfc will be out of admin by the end of this season, with a debt of circa 4 million and probably playing in the championship.

.................................................. ..

You'll need to explain to me what they will be using for money during this period.

[Gus Fring]

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I think the last few pages of this thread have descended into serious green tinted glasses territory.

It now looks about 95 per cent certain the cva will be approved and Hmfc will be out of admin by the end of this season, with a debt of circa 4 million and probably playing in the championship.

The idea they won't come back up is fanciful though. Even with the debt repayments they will easily have the second biggest budget in their league and will make the play offs. They'll probably win them too.

I think bajillions and sergey are being wildly over optimistic and perhaps allowin their club allegiances to bias whatever information their 'sources' are telling them.

Is relegation a suitable punishment for stiffing creditors for 25 million? Probably not, but thems the rules and people are going to have to suck it up soon.

Will happily be proved wrong, but liquidation is not going to happen and neither is the dds reducing to nil.

In my latest post I made it clear that the internal feeling is that Hearts will get through the CVA. The point of my post was not about Hearts as such but on the viability of the FOH business model. Hearts are still struggling to be run in an efficient manner despite all of the allowances Administration offers. I personally can't see how Hearts will be in better financial shape if they get relegated as income will drop in several ways.

[monktonharp]

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I was just wondering how much it would cost them to get the stadium up to scratch and the Main Stand surely has to be the first place they start.

Does anyone know how much it cost Hibs to build the new Main Stand? I realise it's over a decade ago now but it would give some idea of how much it would cost for them to build something similar.

The problem for them is that as soon as they start any re-build, the rule kicks in that requires them to make their stadium UEFA compliant (if they ever want to play in Europe again). This is why Hibs had to increase the size of the pitch, among other things, when building the new East Stand. That''ll be a few million more to add to the bill, and a probable reduction in the capacity of the stands behind each goal.

did it not cost Hibernian just over £6m, to build the new East Stand? and that is really a basic set-up single tier which was done at a time when construction and steel prices were almost rock bottom due to a recession. to build a new main stand, incorporating a b listed façade , main offices, state of the art dressing rooms and resturants, etc etc along with a history section/ parking blah blah. the cost does not bear thinking about. it does actually, and it is pleasing.

[Onceinawhile]

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In my latest post I made it clear that the internal feeling is that Hearts will get through the CVA. The point of my post was not about Hearts as such but on the viability of the FOH business model. Hearts are still struggling to be run in an efficient manner despite all of the allowances Administration offers. I personally can't see how Hearts will be in better financial shape if they get relegated as income will drop in several ways.

Didn't intend it to be a shot at you or anything bajillions. But they will get at least a years grace from their fans for relegation and I'm fairly sure they will come back up. By that point their debt will be minimal and they will still have a competitive budget.

You say they aren't being run in an efficient manner, but bdo are running them at a surplus even with only 3,000 season ticket sales, I don't see how that's inefficient?

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You'll need to explain to me what they will be using for money during this period.

The 500,000 working capital that foundation of hearts are putting up as part of their takeover deal?

[Smiggy 7-0]

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I always wondered what Murray thought he was getting out of this by getting involved. By agreeing to become chair of FoH his fate is now defined by their success or failure.

In the very best scenario (for him), he rescues Hearts from immediate danger but then either leaves or hangs around as the club gets relegated and adjusts to a very different reality, without a sugar daddy pumping in funds from elsewhere. Meanwhile, he's not done himself any favours with the green half of the city.

Especially the electorate in his constituency, though I think he has probably lost a number of us already come election time, we won't forget.

[Wee Scottie Dug]

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In my latest post I made it clear that the internal feeling is that Hearts will get through the CVA. The point of my post was not about Hearts as such but on the viability of the FOH business model. Hearts are still struggling to be run in an efficient manner despite all of the allowances Administration offers. I personally can't see how Hearts will be in better financial shape if they get relegated as income will drop in several ways.

It certainly won't be easy for them with all of the monthly DDs being used to pay back the hefty loan, but the wage bill must be one of the smallest in their chequered history with such a small squad mainly youngsters and the few remaining experienced players all having taken wage cuts. If they do get relegated this season the target will be top 4 in the championship and then take their chances in the playoffs? I think even they could manage that based on the budget that would be required to compete at that level. Would be entertaining to see them fail though!

[degenerated]

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did it not cost Hibernian just over £6m, to build the new East Stand? and that is really a basic set-up single tier which was done at a time when construction and steel prices were almost rock bottom due to a recession. to build a new main stand, incorporating a b listed façade , main offices, state of the art dressing rooms and resturants, etc etc along with a history section/ parking blah blah. the cost does not bear thinking about. it does actually, and it is pleasing.

It was around the 3 million mark for the east, the west stand was about 6.5 when it was done though and that more like what they would need.

[Eternal Hibbie]

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did it not cost Hibernian just over £6m, to build the new East Stand? and that is really a basic set-up single tier which was done at a time when construction and steel prices were almost rock bottom due to a recession. to build a new main stand, incorporating a b listed façade , main offices, state of the art dressing rooms and resturants, etc etc along with a history section/ parking blah blah. the cost does not bear thinking about. it does actually, and it is pleasing.

Think that was the original quote for the stand but after the economy went pear-shaped they built it for around the three million mark

[Gus Fring]

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Didn't intend it to be a shot at you or anything bajillions. But they will get at least a years grace from their fans for relegation and I'm fairly sure they will come back up. By that point their debt will be minimal and they will still have a competitive budget.

You say they aren't being run in an efficient manner, but bdo are running them at a surplus even with only 3,000 season ticket sales, I don't see how that's inefficient?

They arent though. I thought that too until speaking to my source yesterday. They are getting desperate for cash again as match day revenues are falling and in particular hospitality has dropped significantly. This is why half season tickets are on sale already. Most clubs will wait until late December/January to start allowing or relying on Half season ticket attendances. It was hoped the Wolfsburg game would raise some funds but it actually cost them money.

If they get relegated and come back up, their debt will be the same because no payments are due to be made until the 2015/16 season. The first full seasons Direct Debits are for running the club. There is no way they will keep the direct debit numbers up if they get relegated and everyone knows it.

Mackie and Ford have already seen the iceberg, the current business plan is pie in the sky stuff.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is it possible that relegation will not be the financial disaster we envisage? Hibs had amazing attendances in D1, the combination of something to genuinely challenge for, and winning every week had the fans turning out.

Given that Sevco, can get TV money whatever division they are in, Yamco could surely get a cut of that as well.

I think relegation will only really be disastrous if they are skint and can't pay anymore than the likes of Falkirk, or Dundee. The last time they were on the big adventure, they were potless, but I'm starting to fear that this time, they may have a bit more scope..

How much will they have to play with? Some Yams are still talking about avoiding the drop.

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They arent though. I thought that too until speaking to my source yesterday. They are getting desperate for cash again as match day revenues are falling and in particular hospitality has dropped significantly. This is why half season tickets are on sale already. Most clubs will wait until late December/January to start allowing or relying on Half season ticket attendances. It was hoped the Wolfsburg game would raise some funds but it actually cost them money.

If they get relegated and come back up, their debt will be the same because no payments are due to be made until the 2015/16 season. The first full seasons Direct Debits are for running the club. There is no way they will keep the direct debit numbers up if they get relegated and everyone knows it.

Mackie and Ford have already seen the iceberg, the current business plan is pie in the sky stuff.

On KB, they are saying that VW paid Wolsburgs costs, and that the Yams actually made 40 grand on the venture.

[Ozyhibby]

Costs for a main stand with internal fit out, corporate and function suites, media facilities will be somewhere between £2-3k per seat.
Making the whole stadium UEFA compliant will add to this.

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Is it possible that relegation will not be the financial disaster we envisage? Hibs had amazing attendances in D1, the combination of something to genuinely challenge for, and winning every week had the fans turning out.

Given that Sevco, can get TV money whatever division they are in, Yamco could surely get a cut of that as well.

I think relegation will only really be disastrous if they are skint and can't pay anymore than the likes of Falkirk, or Dundee. The last time they were on the big adventure, they were potless, but I'm starting to fear that this time, they may have a bit more scope..

How much will they have to play with? Some Yams are still talking about avoiding the drop.

Hibs lost a fortune when we went down. We went heavily into debt to ensure we came straight back up. They can't do that as they have no borrowing facility.

[Stewboy]

We may have had great attendances but how much too get in? We also didn't gave a 'share' scheme and a monthly subscription to keep the club going

Dumbarton at home in January may not be a huge draw

[Gus Fring]

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On KB, they are saying that VW paid Wolsburgs costs, and that the Yams actually made 40 grand on the venture.

The gate would have been £80k max based on everyone that attended paying £15. But let's say the average price for a ticket was £10 that's £55k. If someone can explain to me how Hearts managed to police and steward a football match for £15k then maybe I'll start to believe them.

Also, just for anyone that doubts my info (more on Sickback than here) then you'll see that hospitality is now being heavily pushed on their website. If it was doing as well as they claim, why would it need to be pushed? It's small, but still a sign.

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We may have had great attendances but how much too get in? We also didn't gave a 'share' scheme and a monthly subscription to keep the club going

Dumbarton at home in January may not be a huge draw

Thats important. Hearts currently charge upto £28 for a walk up ticket. Livingston charge £16 as a comparison. If Hearts charge the same and even if their attendances stay the same that's still a 42% on their dearest ticket.

[Sammy7nil]

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Hibs lost a fortune when we went down. We went heavily into debt to ensure we came straight back up. They can't do that as they have no borrowing facility.

As said early we did not have The Rangers in league and the promise of likely TV money.
We did however stroll the league it will be interesting see if their fans turn out in numbers if very early on it is obvious they are playing for 2nd or 3rd.

[RIP Bestie]

My feeling is that a CVA is still a long long way off.
I predict that BDO will force the sale of players in January to finance the running of the club in the interim and that any CVA that is agreed will not include the PBS.
just sayin likes.

[Gus Fring]

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As said early we did not have The Rangers in league and the promise of likely TV money.
We did however stroll the league it will be interesting see if their fans turn out in numbers if very early on it is obvious they are playing for 2nd or 3rd.

Clubs in the same league as Rangers don't get much TV money as the matches shown only involve Rangers. Hearts would play them 4 times maximum and would need everyone of those matches to be televised, which is unlikely as matches on TV at Ibrox are limited to 3.

[Crazyhorse]

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You've got a nerve to say that!

sorry been in the basement mixin' up the medicine all day....anyway you could say I gotta lotta nerve...

[brog]

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Didn't intend it to be a shot at you or anything bajillions. But they will get at least a years grace from their fans for relegation and I'm fairly sure they will come back up. By that point their debt will be minimal and they will still have a competitive budget.

You say they aren't being run in an efficient manner, but bdo are running them at a surplus even with only 3,000 season ticket sales, I don't see how that's inefficient?

I'm not sure how you know or believe they're being run at a surplus. Even with the current exceptional circumstances, low or no wages & crowds up, they're still begging businesses to buy hospitality & I see no reason to doubt Bajillions when he says they're getting ready to sell half seasons now.
On a separate matter we must remember that F of H offer of £2.5m will be reduced by possibly as much as £1m to pay BDO fees. The Liths will have to be really desperate to accept £1.5/2.0m to get rid of that skanky lot. I also think HMRC may yet play a part. I can't imagine they're too happy at being shafted by their 2nd Scottish club in a couple of years.