Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[brog]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because the most important (only secured) creditor has accepted the offer. All that remains now is for the UBIG admins to play ball and their shares to be unfrozen before they're home and dry.

Have they accepted the offer or have they only accepted the principle of a CVA? As far as I'm aware a CVA has not been prepared let alone accepted as yet.

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Have they accepted the offer or have they only accepted the principle of a CVA? As far as I'm aware a CVA has not been prepared let alone accepted as yet.

Agreed, no CVA has yet been presented. They've asked FOH to proceed with this.

However, I'd imagine they must have a good idea of what it's going to contain, as they've been in discussion through BDO for months now.

[brog]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

At the time, I thought that HMRC played it correctly, and I probably still do.

Had they gone in with all guns blazing, demanding full payment, then the club would've been wound up immediately and they would've got zip. However, what HMRC did was allow them some leeway, and actually did get a little bit of blood out of the stone.

Crops, if you remember at the time I did not share your confidence that HMRC were acting correctly. In hindsight I still find it hard to think that HMRC really did enough. Yams were desperate to avoid admin & subsequent relegation last season & I believe if HMRC had pushed harder then Yams would have found some cash from somewhere to avoid admin. After all, over £3m disappeared from a non existent share issue & season tickets, it would have been nice if some of that money had found its way to the taxpayers rather than Vlad's pocket.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Agreed, no CVA has yet been presented. They've asked FOH to proceed with this.

However, I'd imagine they must have a good idea of what it's going to contain, as they've been in discussion through BDO for months now.

Totally agree, but I would imagine there's a big difference between a verbal offer & a formal offer which is subject to stringent due diligence. BDO's fees also have to be paid & they must be well in advance of £0.5m by now, that's a large chunk of any offer from FoH. I continue to hope!

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How does building up a land bank reduce a tax bill ?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It doesn't. Certainly not in the uk. It's capital expenditure, so costs can only be offset on the sale of the same capital asset.

In any property development, there's shiploads of cash to be spent (and offset against tax) before the first foundation is laid, let alone making any profit.

A speculator (foreign or otherwise) could easily buy Tynie, flatten it, then sit on the vacant site until such time as it suits him to submit a planning application (for example when he has potential buyers lined up). He could then either develop the site himself or sell it on complete with Planning Consent (you have 5 years to start the work after consent is granted).

In the meantime, Banderson, S.H.A.T. (Save Hearts And Tynecastle), the local community council and Shaun Lawson have all been bumping their gums so the speculator can easily reduce the book value of the site due to it being "very complicated", instantly producing a paper loss of £1m+ as well as offsetting his ongoing outlays (Architects' and Surveyors' fees, demolition costs, site security, etc.).

[Glesgahibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Have they accepted the offer or have they only accepted the principle of a CVA? As far as I'm aware a CVA has not been prepared let alone accepted as yet.

The only way ukio can accept or knock back a cva is when one is legally on the table.
no one from any of the involved has been quoted as saying this is a done deal.
all I can see is appeasement from BDO,FOH and a spokesman from UKIOs administrators to the hearts fannies and biddies.ukios admin have to go through there own creditors to accept a cva and they cant do that until there is a real offer on the table.
Let's see what happens today and what spin will apply!

[Moulin Yarns]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In any property development, there's shiploads of cash to be spent (and offset against tax) before the first foundation is laid, let alone making any profit.

A speculator (foreign or otherwise) could easily buy Tynie, flatten it, then sit on the vacant site until such time as it suits him to submit a planning application (for example when he has potential buyers lined up). He could then either develop the site himself or sell it on complete with Planning Consent (you have 5 years to start the work after consent is granted).

In the meantime, Banderson, S.H.A.T. (Save Hearts And Tynecastle), the local community council and Shaun Lawson have all been bumping their gums so the speculator can easily reduce the book value of the site due to it being "very complicated", instantly producing a paper loss of £1m+ as well as offsetting his ongoing outlays (Architects' and Surveyors' fees, demolition costs, site security, etc.).

Not since the new Planning (Scotland) Act 2006. It is now 3 years, but, having said that, unless there are fundamental changes in things like legislation or other over-riding reasons, you could probably extend the approval indefinately.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not since the new Planning (Scotland) Act 2006. It is now 3 years, but, having said that, unless there are fundamental changes in things like legislation or other over-riding reasons, you could probably extend the approval indefinately.

What? You pop out the country for 5 minutes (well 9 years) and they start to change everything!

[Weststandwanab]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It doesn't. Certainly not in the uk. It's capital expenditure, so costs can only be offset on the sale of the same capital asset.

Yes indeed, you are correct. I did know that but wondered f there was something I missed.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Company is set to make 10 million profit…buys land worth 8 million…profit is reduced to 2 million…so corporation tax would be reduced…surely ?

No.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Profit is still £10m. The Land is show in the accounts as stock or Fixed Assets, and can't be set off against any profit until it is sold.

Spot on fellow BC

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Company buys land worth £ 8 million, then writes down value to £ 2 million because of proposal to List a rotting, dangerous structure on the site.

Profits reduced by £ 6 million for a few years anyway.

Presumably you mean profit reduced to £6m not by £6m but anyway the answer is no ! profit still £8M therefore no notional saving in C.T..

[Weststandwanab]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Like I say, no-one outside of FOH, BDO and UKIO knows the actual amounts. It's all been speculation otherwise.

"Most of " £6.8m, though, is anything over £3.4m. I think UKIO would be daft to accept anything less than that.

I agree again.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Agreed, no CVA has yet been presented. They've asked FOH to proceed with this.

However, I'd imagine they must have a good idea of what it's going to contain, as they've been in discussion through BDO for months now.

They have asked the to proceed to formal CVA so that it can be formally rejected and then Liquidation can formally be applied for. - IMO

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In any property development, there's shiploads of cash to be spent (and offset against tax) before the first foundation is laid, let alone making any profit.

A speculator (foreign or otherwise) could easily buy Tynie, flatten it, then sit on the vacant site until such time as it suits him to submit a planning application (for example when he has potential buyers lined up). He could then either develop the site himself or sell it on complete with Planning Consent (you have 5 years to start the work after consent is granted).

In the meantime, Banderson, S.H.A.T. (Save Hearts And Tynecastle), the local community council and Shaun Lawson have all been bumping their gums so the speculator can easily reduce the book value of the site due to it being "very complicated", instantly producing a paper loss of £1m+ as well as offsetting his ongoing outlays (Architects' and Surveyors' fees, demolition costs, site security, etc.).

And all that saves them tax how exactly ?

[CB_NO3]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They have asked the to proceed to formal CVA so that it can be formally rejected and then Liquidation can formally be applied for. - IMO

I like your enthusiasm but I will be surprised if FOH dont know how much it will take the Ukio administration team to accept a deal. Why did the Ukio administration team not call in their 15m debt last week, last month or 2 months ago? It would not surprise me in the slightest if there is some back hand money going on here. "Accept the 4-5 million and we will throw in a wee personal sweetener" thats what the politicians (Murray, Salmond and Foulkes) are good at.

[PapillonVert]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can someone clarify this for me?

The biddies are putting the cash up front to acquire the PBS and the poppy stealers, then the fannies are meant to pay them back using the Save Hearts In Trouble DD scheme. But what happens when the fannies cancel the DDs because they realise they're just paying some millionaire from their hardly earned giros?

The biddies will still have to be repaid, so will money be diverted from paying wages and bills for the repayments? Or will the club's operating budget be unaffected by the cancellations and the biddies are left owning the poppy stealers?

If this has already been answered, my apologies.

If I were a Biddy and putting up the cash dependent on repayment from the Fannies at some point in the future, I would want to ensure that I had a security for the money due. If FoH manage to squirm out of this somehow, presumably they will retain the stadium. This will be the only tangible asset that "newco" will have.

So, if the Biddies are taking this on on a business basis (i.e. they want their money back) rather than seeing it as a charitable donation, part of the deal will be to have a security over the asset in case the Fannies decide they won't pay/can't pay.

[Weststandwanab]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I like your enthusiasm but I will be surprised if FOH dont know how much it will take the Ukio administration team to accept a deal. Why did the Ukio administration team not call in their 15m debt last week, last month or 2 months ago? It would not surprise me in the slightest if there is some back hand money going on here. "Accept the 4-5 million and we will throw in a wee personal sweetener" thats what the politicians (Murray, Salmond and Foulkes) are good at.

Thank you. I agree they will know and know it is too much so the way out to save face for BDO - remember they will be looking for future football club Admins - is to go through the formal process of offering a C.V.A. which will be rejected and they will move on to the process of the big L. Your piece about named individuals has a one in three chance of being correct.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Speaking with a business colleague this afternoon who is from Vilnius and allegedly Mad Vald is discussing and negotiating with the Lithuanian authorities how much $$ is required to allow him back in the country without being arrested or jailed.

Could there be a little twist coming up!

[green glory]

@jamiekborthwick: Hearts stay in limbo as UBIG court hearing is postponed until next Tuesday http://t.co/Sp4iZwlhvH

[HibbySpurs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

@jamiekborthwick: Hearts stay in limbo as UBIG court hearing is postponed http://t.co/Sp4iZwlhvH

What a shame


Looks like the waters continue to remain distinctly muddy in Lith Land....

[DarrenSQH]

But but but I thought the Cva would go through today? ......... Lol

[Glesgahibby]

Replay on Tuesday?
No match report ?
Spin imminent !!!!!!!

[Part/Time Supporter]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What a shame


Looks like the waters continue to remain distinctly muddy in Lith Land....

This delay won't have much effect by itself. BDO can proceed with arranging the CVA meeting anyway, which needs a 28 days notice period. It just eats into that period a little bit. Further delays and/or the UBIG liquidator being difficult to deal with could cause a delay to the CVA timescale.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Thank you. I agree they will know and know it is too much so the way out to save face for BDO - remember they will be looking for future football club Admins - is to go through the formal process of offering a C.V.A. which will be rejected and they will move on to the process of the big L. Your piece about named individuals has a one in three chance of being correct.

I believe that's incorrect. The quotes from BDO and the Ukio administrator talked about now moving onto the "formal acceptance" of the FOH offer, implying that the offer has already been informally agreed. The formal acceptance would be by the actual CVA vote. BDO have also talked about the deal now being "4/10" complete, with the Ukio element representing the 4, again implying that this part of the deal has been agreed. If the Ukio administrator intended to move Hearts into liquidation he wouldn't need to waste his time (and some money) with arranging a CVA vote that he intended to vote against.

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that despite what we've heard over the last few days, no CVA will agreed, on Tuesday, or any other day.

[Weststandwanab]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that despite what we've heard over the last few days, no CVA will agreed, on Tuesday, or any other day.

Can I join you ?

[Dashing Bob S]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can I join you ?

Yes, please do!

[Weststandwanab]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes, please do!

Cheers. I am off for a well earned pint now !

[JeMeSouviens]

I think there will be a few dynamics going on behind the scenes. The Muppets' offer has already been upped a couple of times and was last rumoured to be around £3M while the spin has had Ukio willing to accept a discount on Tiny's value (usually quoted that they want £5M for a £6M or thereabouts asset). It's not inconceivable therefore that a deal could be struck. So I think there'll currently be:

Fannies to Biddies - look how well those Diddies are stumping up, gonnae just gie us a wee million or 2 more.

Fannies to BDO - give us a few weeks and we'll get the thumbscrews on Ms Budge to budge.

Valnetas to BDO - get on with it!

BDO to Valnetas - gonnae just knock half a mill off and we're nearly there.


My personal speculation is that Valnetas won't move very far. They have a restless lynch mob of Lithuanians to worry about after all. There might be a bit of movement on the Muppets' side. They were always likely to try and lowball as far as they could, so they may have been keeping a bit back and laying on the emotional blackmail to the Biddies to wring out that wee bit more cash.

The spin from the likes of Fat Boy McLauchlin at the Beeb has been pretty cautious so there must be a good bit of potential still for it all to collapse. Let's hope so!

[WhileTheChief..]

Brian Jackson said on the day that he was appointed administrator that he reckoned they had 4 in 10 chance of making it.

Not much changed since then it seems.

[Glesgahibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This delay won't have much effect by itself. BDO can proceed with arranging the CVA meeting anyway, which needs a 28 days notice period. It just eats into that period a little bit. Further delays and/or the UBIG liquidator being difficult to deal with would cause a delay to the CVA timescale.



I believe that's incorrect. The quotes from BDO and the Ukio administrator talked about now moving onto the "formal acceptance" of the FOH offer, implying that the offer has already been informally agreed. The formal acceptance would be by the actual CVA vote. BDO have also talked about the deal now being "4/10" complete, with the Ukio element representing the 4, again implying that this part of the deal has been agreed. If the Ukio administrator intended to move Hearts into liquidation he wouldn't need to waste his time (and some money) with arranging a CVA vote that he intended to vote against.

1.formal procedure,not "formal acceptance".
2.ukio admins have to formally ask for there "secured money,asset" or compromise.
3.ukio admins can only accept a compromise ie CVA when it is really there.
4.ukio admins don't arrange a CVA vote BDO do that.
5.ukio admins have to wait until CVA is produced before they can do anything.
6.BDO decide when to liquidate or sell CVA depending on present and future stability of the company.
7.UBIG????????????

[Dashing Bob S]

The FOH 'bid' is voodoo accountancy. I genuinely can't see a CVA taking place on it, though I really hope, indeed pray, that this actually does come to pass, as it would extend the hilarity further. Additionally, it would make it harder for the Yams trying to push this 'we're as much victims as anybody else' status, after they are given a free reign to wreck it themselves, which they would spectacularly under those conditions.

Bring on a CVA! (If you can...)

[hibees 7062]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Cheers. I am off for a well earned pint now !

Can we join you ?

[greenginger]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Speaking with a business colleague this afternoon who is from Vilnius and allegedly Mad Vald is discussing and negotiating with the Lithuanian authorities how much $$ is required to allow him back in the country without being arrested or jailed.

Could there be a little twist coming up!

Read all about it


http://translate.googleusercontent.c...A9z633KtjkOozg

[Sanger]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The only way ukio can accept or knock back a cva is when one is legally on the table.
no one from any of the involved has been quoted as saying this is a done deal.
all I can see is appeasement from BDO,FOH and a spokesman from UKIOs administrators to the hearts fannies and biddies.ukios admin have to go through there own creditors to accept a cva and they cant do that until there is a real offer on the table.
Let's see what happens today and what spin will apply!

As I said previously they only way to reject or even know what will be really offered in the CVA is to give permission for the process to start. It will be well short of anything close to what Ukio/UBIG will find acceptable and then curtains.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Replay on Tuesday?
No match report ?
Spin imminent !!!!!!!

And then another 30 days before appointed admin made public.

[#FromTheCapital]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As I said previously they only way to reject or even know what will be really offered in the CVA is to give permission for the process to start. It will be well short of anything close to what Ukio/UBIG will find acceptable and then curtains.
.

#AllIsDesantos

No chance. They have accepted the amount offered as they have been thinking about it for a couple of months. As BDO say this part of the process is basically done and dusted, all that remains is for the UBIG situation to be sorted.