Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[jgl07]

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As JGL says, the new Airdrie company didn't buy the brand. Sevco, on the other hand, bought the Rangers brand.

The point I found puzzling was that Ballentyne suggested that to buy the brand, the creditors would have to be paid off in full. He was specifically asked that question in a radio interview. Maybe he was covering his tracks for being too tight-fisted to make a reasonable offer and going down the route of registering a new club?

Having said that Ballentyne always came across as a straightforward guy. He handed over the Clydebank brand to their supporters to enable them to use it in Junior Football.

[Keith_M]

I thought Sevco had to register the club as The Rangers, not Rangers because of an SFA ruling. Or have I got it wrong (again)?


Airdrie recently managed to overturn the ban on using the original name and badge as the SFA had no defence due to the lenient way they treated (The) Rangers.

[SurferRosa]

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Of course there are rules. There are rules for administrators, and there are rules for liquidators. Most of these rules are backed up by legislation.

What I am trying to describe, though, is the commercial reality. The Airdrie guy didn't want to pay the price, which was clearly too high. Sevco paid the price that was on offer; whether that was the correct market price may yet be questioned.

Fair enough Crops.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The point I found puzzling was that Ballentyne suggested that to buy the brand, the creditors would have to be paid off in full. He was specifically asked that question in a radio interview. Maybe he was covering his tracks for being too tight-fisted to make a reasonable offer and going down the route of registering a new club?

Having said that Ballentyne always came across as a straightforward guy. He handed over the Clydebank brand to their supporters to enable them to use it in Junior Football.

Yeah, seems strange to me, too.

Maybe, as you say, he was trying to justify his own (in)action. Or perhaps the liquidator was trying it on. Maybe there were other factors at play that neither would disclose.

It always puzzled me, too, why that whole scenario took years (7?) to finalise.

[goosano]

My heads still shaking from reading Walter Smith's interviews in the Scotsman on Sunday/Scotsman from last week. It starts with

With losses of £14.4million announced last week and in-fighting between directors and rebel shareholders showing no sign of letting up, Smith struggled to see a light at the end of this particular tunnel.

Smith's response

"However, Smith dismisses suggestions that Rangers should not have made high-profile signings such as Cammy Bell, Jon Daly, Nicky Law and others on elite-division salaries while the club is losing money in Scottish football’s third tier.

“At Rangers it’s a difficult scenario,” he said. “You talk about cutting their cloth but, at the start of last season Rangers had to have a team that was fairly recognisable in terms of the level of player.

“Even during the season when they were winning there was a whole raft of discontent over the way they were playing. But, this year, what do you do with that?

“Do you say: ‘We are going to go with the same team again?’ You couldn’t do that. They had to [improve] the team. They had to bring in different players.

“People come out and say: ‘It’s not necessary for them to have that in that division’ but it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch.

“That’s where Rangers have to make the difference and, in fairness to Alistair, he has done that this season. They are still losing money but when you make a decision to become involved at Rangers there is no common sense to it.

“There is no common business sense. Yes, there is money going out, it’s a fact. But what do you do?

Unbelievable. More from the man

His comments on the financial waste at Ibrox, under his watch in part, demanded explanation. “I knew they [Rangers] would make a loss [for the financial year ended 30 June] but I wasn’t sure exactly what it would be. It was quite a surprise when it came out to be such a large figure.”

Well, what is your job as chairman? And to finish

On the football side of it, it’s pretty clear that Smith had no issue with McCoist earning £825,000 a year. Also, he has said that giving a player a wage of £7,500 a week (Ian Black, for one) while in the Third Division was not such a big deal. Presumably he had no truck with other deals, like the one given to Fran Sandaza that would have seen the Spaniard’s salary rise to £10,000 a week in the final year of his contract.

The overall wage bill in the Third Division was £7.8 million. Smith said: “People come out and say ‘Ah, it’s not necessary for them to have those players in that division’. But it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact that you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch…They are still losing money. But when you make a decision to be involved at Rangers, there is no common sense to it. The financial bit of Rangers Football Club and common sense don’t often go together.

Heads still firmly stuck in sand. I hope The Rangers go exactly the same way as Rangers. they quite clearly haven't learnt a thing/have a shred of humility

[Springbank]

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My heads still shaking from reading Walter Smith's interviews in the Scotsman on Sunday/Scotsman from last week. It starts with

With losses of £14.4million announced last week and in-fighting between directors and rebel shareholders showing no sign of letting up, Smith struggled to see a light at the end of this particular tunnel.

Smith's response

"However, Smith dismisses suggestions that Rangers should not have made high-profile signings such as Cammy Bell, Jon Daly, Nicky Law and others on elite-division salaries while the club is losing money in Scottish football’s third tier.

“At Rangers it’s a difficult scenario,” he said. “You talk about cutting their cloth but, at the start of last season Rangers had to have a team that was fairly recognisable in terms of the level of player.

“Even during the season when they were winning there was a whole raft of discontent over the way they were playing. But, this year, what do you do with that?

“Do you say: ‘We are going to go with the same team again?’ You couldn’t do that. They had to [improve] the team. They had to bring in different players.

“People come out and say: ‘It’s not necessary for them to have that in that division’ but it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch.

“That’s where Rangers have to make the difference and, in fairness to Alistair, he has done that this season. They are still losing money but when you make a decision to become involved at Rangers there is no common sense to it.

“There is no common business sense. Yes, there is money going out, it’s a fact. But what do you do?

Unbelievable. More from the man

His comments on the financial waste at Ibrox, under his watch in part, demanded explanation. “I knew they [Rangers] would make a loss [for the financial year ended 30 June] but I wasn’t sure exactly what it would be. It was quite a surprise when it came out to be such a large figure.”

Well, what is your job as chairman? And to finish

On the football side of it, it’s pretty clear that Smith had no issue with McCoist earning £825,000 a year. Also, he has said that giving a player a wage of £7,500 a week (Ian Black, for one) while in the Third Division was not such a big deal. Presumably he had no truck with other deals, like the one given to Fran Sandaza that would have seen the Spaniard’s salary rise to £10,000 a week in the final year of his contract.

The overall wage bill in the Third Division was £7.8 million. Smith said: “People come out and say ‘Ah, it’s not necessary for them to have those players in that division’. But it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact that you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch…They are still losing money. But when you make a decision to be involved at Rangers, there is no common sense to it. The financial bit of Rangers Football Club and common sense don’t often go together.

Heads still firmly stuck in sand. I hope The Rangers go exactly the same way as Rangers. they quite clearly haven't learnt a thing/have a shred of humility

As someone with Scottish Football at heart, I can only shake my head at this sheer stupidity from an otherwise respected and respectable figure (Walter Smith)

As you say, no lessons have been learned.

In hearts case the authorities had to step in when it became clear the club and directors were too immature to take hard decisions to live within their means and to take responsibility to explain this action (and the reasons for it) to their supporters. In the hearts case that meant a transfer ban.

The Rangers are clearly needing this type of reality check too, or else it's liquidation mark 2, inevitably

[Keith_M]

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....

In hearts case the authorities had to step in when it became clear the club and directors were too immature to take hard decisions to live within their means and to take responsibility to explain this action (and the reasons for it) to their supporters. In the hearts case that meant a transfer ban.

The Rangers are clearly needing this type of reality check too, or else it's liquidation mark 2, inevitably

Didn't you realise that The Rangers also had a transfer ban? It started on the day after the Transfer Window closed and has been really effective in preventing them signing players.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Looks like two clubs with the word "Rangers" in it will be going into liquidation in the space of 18 months. Stunning coincidence. It's a curse.

[Tynie01011973]

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Didn't you realise that The Rangers also had a transfer ban? It started on the day after the Transfer Window closed and has been really effective in preventing them signing players.

Sure it started ONE MONTH after it was announced

[Keith_M]

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Sure it started ONE MONTH after it was announced

That's the one

[Spike Mandela]

What the **** is all this about? Nice to see them explicitly called THE Rangers football club though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24518160

[Part/Time Supporter]

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What the **** is all this about? Nice to see them explicitly called THE Rangers football club though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24518160

In their desperation to give the hordes some good news (King is free of his South African tax problems and could come on board), the Sevco board forgot to tell the stock exchange first.

[Scott Allan Key]

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My heads still shaking from reading Walter Smith's interviews in the Scotsman on Sunday/Scotsman from last week. It starts with

With losses of £14.4million announced last week and in-fighting between directors and rebel shareholders showing no sign of letting up, Smith struggled to see a light at the end of this particular tunnel.

Smith's response

"However, Smith dismisses suggestions that Rangers should not have made high-profile signings such as Cammy Bell, Jon Daly, Nicky Law and others on elite-division salaries while the club is losing money in Scottish football’s third tier.

“At Rangers it’s a difficult scenario,” he said. “You talk about cutting their cloth but, at the start of last season Rangers had to have a team that was fairly recognisable in terms of the level of player.

“Even during the season when they were winning there was a whole raft of discontent over the way they were playing. But, this year, what do you do with that?

“Do you say: ‘We are going to go with the same team again?’ You couldn’t do that. They had to [improve] the team. They had to bring in different players.

“People come out and say: ‘It’s not necessary for them to have that in that division’ but it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch.

“That’s where Rangers have to make the difference and, in fairness to Alistair, he has done that this season. They are still losing money but when you make a decision to become involved at Rangers there is no common sense to it.

“There is no common business sense. Yes, there is money going out, it’s a fact. But what do you do?

Unbelievable. More from the man

His comments on the financial waste at Ibrox, under his watch in part, demanded explanation. “I knew they [Rangers] would make a loss [for the financial year ended 30 June] but I wasn’t sure exactly what it would be. It was quite a surprise when it came out to be such a large figure.”

Well, what is your job as chairman? And to finish

On the football side of it, it’s pretty clear that Smith had no issue with McCoist earning £825,000 a year. Also, he has said that giving a player a wage of £7,500 a week (Ian Black, for one) while in the Third Division was not such a big deal. Presumably he had no truck with other deals, like the one given to Fran Sandaza that would have seen the Spaniard’s salary rise to £10,000 a week in the final year of his contract.

The overall wage bill in the Third Division was £7.8 million. Smith said: “People come out and say ‘Ah, it’s not necessary for them to have those players in that division’. But it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact that you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch…They are still losing money. But when you make a decision to be involved at Rangers, there is no common sense to it. The financial bit of Rangers Football Club and common sense don’t often go together.

Heads still firmly stuck in sand. I hope The Rangers go exactly the same way as Rangers. they quite clearly haven't learnt a thing/have a shred of humility

It'll be The the Rangers soon enough. Won't take much of a mind bomb for the average Hun's head to explode.

[PatHead]

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It'll be The the Rangers soon enough. Won't take much of a mind bomb for the average Hun's head to explode.

But they will be the same team with the same history likes because they don't do walking away. (unless it from debt)

[Just Alf]

Cara Sulieman ‏@carasulieman now
Lord Tyre has granted an interim interdict preventing the AGM from going ahead on Oct 24.

[green glory]

Was just going to post that. I've only been keeping one eye on the The Rangers soap opera recently. Can someone give some idea of the implications of today's rulings.

The worse the better IMO.

[Just Alf]

Cara Sulieman ‏@carasulieman 5m
Judge also ordered Rangers to pay petitioners' expenses.

[Just Alf]

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Was just going to post that. I've only been keeping one eye on the The Rangers soap opera recently. Can someone give some idea of the implications of today's rulings.

The worse the better IMO.

good question!

I think it means that the existing board didn't get their own way and that the infighting goes on, hopefully, leaving them a little tight for maneuvering room re sorting their finances?

I HOPE!

[Keith_M]

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What the **** is all this about? Nice to see them explicitly called THE Rangers football club though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24518160

The Rangers decided to allow this guy to use the club's own website to state his desire to join the Board. Considering they've gone to court to try to prevent other people from having appointments to the board even discussed at the AGM, just how desperate must they be to get King into Ibrox.


IMO, this bodes well for the future of The Rangers.... at least from our point of view

[CropleyWasGod]

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good question!

I think it means that the existing board didn't get their own way and that the infighting goes on, hopefully, leaving them a little tight for maneuvering room re sorting their finances?

I HOPE!

That's my take on it.

The old regime are hanging on in the hope that they can get Dave King (and, more importantly, his money) involved to get them out of the hole they're in.

On the DK thing, I don't get why he would go back there, especially since he's already lost £20m.

[ancient hibee]

If King paid £44 million just to get off the hook in South Africa it makes you wonder what he was really up to.Does anyone who is innocent really say cheerio to forty four million smackeroos?Can't see the Isdales being too keen on King after they've got themselves into top dog position.

[green glory]

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If King paid £44 million just to get off the hook in South Africa it makes you wonder what he was really up to.Does anyone who is innocent really say cheerio to forty four million smackeroos?Can't see the Isdales being too keen on King after they've got themselves into top dog position.

Could get messy. People might get their fingers burnt. I think there's some form involving fire isn't there?

Anything is possible in this whole sorry saga.

[Keith_M]

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Could get messy. People might get their fingers burnt. I think there's some form involving fire isn't there?

Anything is possible in this whole sorry saga.

It's usually buses

[jgl07]

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It's usually buses

It could be McGill's buses if the Easdales take control!

Remember that Sandy Easdale couldn't plea-bargain his way out of a jail sentence for tax fraud (unlike Dave King). He was sentenced to 27 months of bird for a mere £1.5 million scam. King paid £40 million!

Add in Craig White and Rangers certainly have some track record on tax fraud.

[monktonharp]

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Of course there are rules. There are rules for administrators, and there are rules for liquidators. Most of these rules are backed up by legislation.

What I am trying to describe, though, is the commercial reality. The Airdrie guy didn't want to pay the price, which was clearly too high. Sevco paid the price that was on offer; whether that was the correct market price may yet be questioned.

that makes it a bigger sham than most people think! if the market price was offered at around £1, I would have offered £1;10p, bought them and closed them down.

[CropleyWasGod]

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that makes it a bigger sham than most people think! if the market price was offered at around £1, I would have offered £1;10p, bought them and closed them down.

That was for the brand only, though. It was part of the package including the properties and the playing staff.

[Keith_M]

20th June, 2011 - Mysterious Fire at Wilson's Coaches in Greenock.

19th Feb 2012 - Mysterious Fire at Scott Ellis Travel in Inverclyde

-----

Witness report from an unrelated bus fire (no suspicious circumstances) in Dumbarton

"Coming from Greenock it's not the first bus fire I've seen - I used to work for McGill's buses () in the depot there, I just wanted to keep people away in case there was a lot of diesel on board.

-----


GersBus.jpg

...Gers Bus (not supplied by the Easdales)


McGBus.jpg
....an Easdales bus goes on fire shortly after (total coincidence)

[grunt]

Douglas Fraser ‏@BBCDouglas #Rangers' chief executive Craig Mather quits with immediate effect. So does non-exec director Bryan Smart. #rfc

[down-the-slope]

not read this thread in months - and i'm sure its been said in many ways....

What is it that flies tend to congregate round again ...

[greenginger]

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Douglas Fraser ‏@BBCDouglas #Rangers' chief executive Craig Mather quits with immediate effect. So does non-exec director Bryan Smart. #rfc

Quitting with a juicy severance package no doubt !