Hearts bump HWU for training ground rent (merged)

[Mikey]

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I seem to remember something about there being a few acres of extra land at East Mains that is not required for the sports centre.
It was suggested a change to housing use may be possible in future. Remember, its not Edinburgh Council we would have to apply to for planning permission.

The anti Farmer mob were keen to tell us at the time that he bought extra land (using the club's money of course) so that he could sell it off for housing at a profit (for himself of course) at a later date.

[cocopops1875]

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The anti Farmer mob were keen to tell us at the time that he bought extra land (using the club's money of course) so that he could sell it off for housing at a profit (for himself of course) at a later date.

He probably couldn't afford it with his own money Mikey, you know what it's like when your a wee bit short

[Mikey]

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He probably couldn't afford it with his own money Mikey, you know what it's like when your a wee bit short

What? Like the Hibs midfield??

[GREEN WARLORD]

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They actually get a not bad deal all in then (I work at HWU as a contractor) I see the 1st team and u20s training there but always assumed the young uns had other arrangements as the Uni must have a need for the facilities.
As I said earlier I'm all for us having our own place and having been out there to play and also did the tour when it opened can say its first class, just saying even if they were paying what they are due we are paying the same for not massively different facilities, In fact the indoor area they have use of is a huge step up from what we have. They have offices, their own changing and roughly 8 pitches one of which is all weather, great gym and other social sports like squash. Dunno what they do for eating and laundry which we have on site but my point is pound for pound they have a not bad deal (if they were actually paying for it)

There is a hot dog looking trailer that sits in the car park outside the entrance, some skank comes along and makes them pasta. As for laundry, there is a washing machine and tumble dryer that sits in the cleaners cupboard, the kitman washes their smeg ridden clothes.

[jgl07]

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I Don't really think its the same thing as its not 500k rent v 500k mortgage as we have already bought the house outright, lets not kid ourselves that east mains is massively better than HWU pound for pound.
The difference is we have unlimited unrestricted use of ours so all our teams train there.
As I said earlier I'm pro east mains

I don't understand your figures. You are suggesting that the running costs for East mains are higher than the rental costs of Riccarton. How can East mains possible cost that much to run unless you include the wages of the coaching staff and other costs hat will have to be picked up anyway?

If the genuine running costs are greater that the ren (not) paid for Riccarton, this suggests that Heriot-Watt are seriously undercharging Hearts.

[CyberSauzee]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football...alks-1-3096515

Cash drying up rapidly.

[Coco Bryce]

I hear Hearts under 20s are back training at Newtongrange Star ground. Surprised at them allowing this to be honest as Hearts bumped them for payment 2 years ago

[greenpaper55]

The Uni should tell them to take a flying one ! pay back the debt then try and sort out a new agreement.

[Billy Whizz]

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The Uni should tell them to take a flying one ! pay back the debt then try and sort out a new agreement.

Depends if HW need the money to support their centre or not

[Gus Fring]

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http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football...alks-1-3096515

Cash drying up rapidly.

Slightly misleading from the Scotsman there. The article is factually accurate, the facts have just been presented in a misleading manner.

My understanding is that BDO want a cheaper deal (they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't) but that Heriot Watt want out completely. The scotsman fails to make the latter clear.

[Waxy]

We'll see them trudging along gorgie road to saughton park soon.

[MB62]

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http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football...alks-1-3096515

Cash drying up rapidly.

I was reading that this morning, quite incredible the brass neck of that lot. They are due HWU £146.000 in unpaid fees and now the want to re-negotiate new fees, HWU should tell them where to go, which would probably be Inverleith Park or somewhere to train. The Yams have been slagging us for East Mains apparently costing us £500,000 a year to run, telling us it's breaking the bank, yet East Mains is ours, they are paying £400,000 a year to RENT HWU.

GITRUY you despicable bunch of thieves.

[Billy Whizz]

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My understanding is that BDO want a cheaper deal (they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't) but that Heriot Watt want out completely. The scotsman fails to make the latter clear.

Pretty wide negotiation stances on this then

[CropleyWasGod]

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The Uni should tell them to take a flying one ! pay back the debt then try and sort out a new agreement.

They're not allowed to pay back HWU.

[Hibs07p]

I am assuming the lease agreement re the training centre "died" with Hearts entering administration, and owing HWU rent, and that HWU can "impose" a more favourable lease agreement in their favour, or if Hearts don't like it they can Foff.

GGTTH

[CyberSauzee]

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Slightly misleading from the Scotsman there. The article is factually accurate, the facts have just been presented in a misleading manner.

My understanding is that BDO want a cheaper deal (they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't) but that Heriot Watt want out completely. The scotsman fails to make the latter clear.

Thanks Baj, always good to hear your inside take on things.

I'm guessing BDO offering next to nothing, and HWU saying it's not worth our while for such a small amount.

[Gus Fring]

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Thanks Baj, always good to hear your inside take on things.

I'm guessing BDO offering next to nothing, and HWU saying it's not worth our while for such a small amount.

That would be my guess, too. I rarely get figures though, only vague statements. The only time I got an exact figure was the Wonga money and that was because it was so utterly ludicrous that Hearts wanted to tell anyone who would listen that Barry Anderson was a liar.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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I would guess that the National Performance Centre will be attracting a fair bit of new business for the facilities, so I doubt it will be "nobody at all". It might actually suit HWU to have Hearts cancel their agreement so they can negotiate better rates (either with NewYamCo or another sporting organisation) for use of the improved facilities.

The person responsible for the new initiative was interviewed over the weekend by Radio Scotland (Johnnie Beattie's show).
The venture needs to be self-funding and interestingly enough in the cited users, Hearts were notably conspicuous by their absence.

[greenginger]

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Oh, I hear you. The same thing is said to me time and time again by clients and disgruntled (decent) traders. Like I say, though, no-one has come up with a better way.

How about bringing back debtors prisons !

[Killiehibbie]

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How about bringing back debtors prisons !

With gallows for the worst cases.

[Hibs Class]

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They're not allowed to pay back HWU.

If it was to be classed as a football debt then it may not be hopeless for HWU?

[CropleyWasGod]

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If it was to be classed as a football debt then it may not be hopeless for HWU?

I've never seen a definition of "football debt", but IMO that would be stretching it a bit. If they were classed as a football debt, then so would many others.

[Hibs Class]

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I've never seen a definition of "football debt", but IMO that would be stretching it a bit. If they were classed as a football debt, then so would many others.

I agree but I'd be willing to have a go at arguing the case on behalf of HWU

[CropleyisGod]

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The person responsible for the new initiative was interviewed over the weekend by Radio Scotland (Johnnie Beattie's show).
The venture needs to be self-funding and interestingly enough in the cited users, Hearts were notably conspicuous by their absence.

My contact at the Hairy previously told me the reason they weren't rocking the boat re: existing debt was that the Yams were an integral part of the bid. Interesting that, now they've won it, they may be happy to jetison the mutants.

[greenginger]

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I agree but I'd be willing to have a go at arguing the case on behalf of HWU

Heriot Watt have a football team who may well have suffered from lack of funding because of Yams failure to pay their dues.

Its a football debt, make them pay !

[renato]

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I spoke to a coach from Bathgate last week who was telling me he has two kids who Hibs are trying to sign but logistically the parents just can't get them to Trannent for training during the week. The boys are still not attached to another club so hopefully something can be sorted.

Off topic but I think I know one of the kids in question here. Talented laddie who'd love to train at hibs but his dad (who I work with) can't get him to EM in time for midweek training due to work and commute from Linlithgow.

I'm pro EM and there's no reason, in my mind, to even think about us using the HW facility in future but Riccarton is certainly much easier to get to for parents residing in the central belt.

[jgl07]

I can't really see Heriot-Watt giving Hearts the heave.

They are probably grossly overprovided with sports facilities. This stemmed from the collapse of the proposed merger with moray House College and Edinburgh College of Art. It assumed that all or most of the facilities would be relocated to Riccarton increasing the number of staff and students considerably. This was especially the case given Moray House's involvement with PE teacher training.

Moray House pulled out of the merger and subsequently merged with the University of Edinburgh in 1998. Heriot-Watt were left with severe overcapacity. That was just before Hearts agreed to use Riccarton.

[Jay]

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Off topic but I think I know one of the kids in question here. Talented laddie who'd love to train at hibs but his dad (who I work with) can't get him to EM in time for midweek training due to work and commute from Linlithgow.

I'm pro EM and there's no reason, in my mind, to even think about us using the HW facility in future but Riccarton is certainly much easier to get to for parents residing in the central belt.

I know Hibs used to put on a minibus for kids from Livi, don't know if that stopped or what age group the boys had to be. The boy I know was U 15/16s at the time.

[cocopops1875]

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I don't understand your figures. You are suggesting that the running costs for East mains are higher than the rental costs of Riccarton. How can East mains possible cost that much to run unless you include the wages of the coaching staff and other costs hat will have to be picked up anyway?

If the genuine running costs are greater that the ren (not) paid for Riccarton, this suggests that Heriot-Watt are seriously undercharging Hearts.

Not my figures to be fair just a mash up of info (some with providence) but not mental by any stretch staffing costs, insurance, utility's , repairs this place Runs 14 hours a day 7 days a week I believe
Hearts on the other hand are simply renting space in something thats there (now without much investment from them) at a time of the day when these facilities would be quiet at best. Its akin to you renting your garage out while you are away in your car at work all day, How do you price that or are you happy getting something for pretty much nothing as you are paying the upkeep already ?

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

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Off topic but I think I know one of the kids in question here. Talented laddie who'd love to train at hibs but his dad (who I work with) can't get him to EM in time for midweek training due to work and commute from Linlithgow.

I'm pro EM and there's no reason, in my mind, to even think about us using the HW facility in future but Riccarton is certainly much easier to get to for parents residing in the central belt.

Could car pooling be an option? It's what I used to do when training with Hibs youth, albeit a fair few years ago now! Any other parents from the team that could maybe provide a lift with Hibs covering the additional petrol? Just a thought.