Hearts bump HWU for training ground rent (merged)

[worcesterhibby]

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Apologies if discussed already but in 7 days the bid for the National Performance Centre will be presented.

If you look at the link below - Heriot Watt are involved and Hearts are to get grass pitches (plus I'm sure use of a full size 11 v 11 pitch).

While I agree Edinburgh needs better sports facilities the bid smells of yamness....the people backing the bid all being yams..Hastings...Hoy...Stewart..

http://goedinburgh2016.com/location-and-facilities/

That will be why they have ignored the FOI request. Even if we complain they know the decision will be made before the fact that they were complicit with hearts in letting them use the facilities for free can be picked up as a news story.

Stinks that Hearts will benefit, but I guess it is to the benefit of Edinburgh as a whole.

[hibs0666]

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Lets revisit this convo tomorrow

Spilling the beans? :)

[whereswallace?]

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Had an email from a friend who works at HW. He has said he has some juicy gossip for me.........should find out in the pub tonight. The mystery deepens

what was the juicy gossip?

[Bostonhibby]

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what was the juicy gossip?

Is it that HWU are part of the same establishment as the Yam and its just not the done thing to use the nasty "debt" word when they talk to each other at their gatherings? Long time not to be paid. Unlikely to be accounted for because generally they don't have to, witness the previous months unpaid and seemingly unpursued.

[lEXO]

Are they still training there? If so that's bizzare

[PatHead]

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what was the juicy gossip?

Sorry gossip wasn't Hearts related. (Wasn't really juicy either for that matter). He thinks HW don't like bad press either and will just shut up and hope it goes away. Trust Sydney to be on holiday and not able to write to them. Sorry to build your hopes up but I had commented on the Hearts situation to him in and "gossip" comment had come from him.

[crash]

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Good point Mr Liberal Sir...sorry been down here in Sassanach land for so long I forget the different law stuff.....however, believe it or not, Heriot Watt have there very own helpful page about FOI requests (which absolutely proves that FOI does apply to them) including what to do if you don't get a response...

http://www.hw.ac.uk/about/policies/foi.htm

Any word back from Heriot Watts 'FOI and Data Protection Officer' yet on the enquiry which was submitted, if not they are in breach of the law.

[RoslinInstHibby]

The Uni has won the bid for the national sports centre

[truehibernian]

Personally I think that this award win signals the first piece in the Hearts survival jigsaw - call me cynical but Tynie will be sold by new owners, council will back and fund a stadium (maybe with part funding from Hearts, option to buy over time), Hearts will be allowed to train at the new state of the art training complex - they'll no doubt rent not own for years but all cash they raise will thereafter go on football not so much infrastructure - or am I just an old cynic ?

[GreenCastle]

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Personally I think that this award win signals the first piece in the Hearts survival jigsaw - call me cynical but Tynie will be sold by new owners, council will back and fund a stadium (maybe with part funding from Hearts, option to buy over time), Hearts will be allowed to train at the new state of the art training complex - they'll no doubt rent not own for years but all cash they raise will thereafter go on football not so much infrastructure - or am I just an old cynic ?

While I am delighted Edinburgh will gain some better sports facilities - which are well over due - if you compare to what Glasgow has right now with Commonwealth games approaching.

I mentioned several posts before that the yams are going to be part of this and have access to all the pitches only having to pay rent - something they don't do as it stands.

They will have access to some of the latest and best facilities around including a full size 11v11 pitch.

While it may not be exclusive to them - its a life saver if they are still around to use it.

I am pretty sure Falkirk use the facilities at Stirling Uni.

[Ozyhibby]

This is very good news for Hearts if they survive as they will have access to some of the best sports science facilities money can buy.
Let's hope they don't survive or if they do they are charged full Market rent for use of the facilities.

[greenpaper55]

There is nothing in the announcement that says Hearts get to use the new facility , this new facility should be used to benefit all football clubs and not just one who happen to train there.

[Ozyhibby]

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There is nothing in the announcement that says Hearts get to use the new facility , this new facility should be used to benefit all football clubs and not just one who happen to train there.

Let's hope that is the case but given that Heriot Watt don't seem to care about collecting rent from them, it's difficult to imagine them not getting preferential treatment.

[07hibee]

I wonder where they'll train while its getting built ?

[GreenCastle]

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There is nothing in the announcement that says Hearts get to use the new facility , this new facility should be used to benefit all football clubs and not just one who happen to train there.

Did you read the website ?

The yams will be all over this and if I was in there situation or Hibs were needing a place to train so would I.

[Bostonhibby]

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Personally I think that this award win signals the first piece in the Hearts survival jigsaw - call me cynical but Tynie will be sold by new owners, council will back and fund a stadium (maybe with part funding from Hearts, option to buy over time), Hearts will be allowed to train at the new state of the art training complex - they'll no doubt rent not own for years but all cash they raise will thereafter go on football not so much infrastructure - or am I just an old cynic ?

I'm with you there, if they can just ignore pursuing the rent debt then there was probably already a pretty cosy understanding / relationship. It doesn't require a huge leap here if you believe that there have been behind the scenes efforts to ensure the yam are to some extent bailed out or propped up by the system whilst still being able to say that it is just a happy coincidence, benefits all etc

It's coming, acess to similar to what we have paid to build and at very little cost to themselves.

[chrisski33]

Even if yams get use of this it doesnt mean they will be better. We have east mains and we havent improved since having it!

[Ozyhibby]

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Even if yams get use of this it doesnt mean they will be better. We have east mains and we havent improved since having it!

But it cost us £5.5m to build and £0.5m a year to maintain. Hearts get Herriot Watt for free.

[blackpoolhibs]

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But it cost us £5.5m to build and £0.5m a year to maintain. Hearts get Herriot Watt for free.

We do get to use it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Hearts if they survive, and if they do rent this place when its built, will have it at a price and for 2 or 3 hours a day.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I don't see why Hearts would have any more or less access to this new facility than any other organisation. Sounds like it is being developed into addition what is already onsite at HWU rather than instead of. So if Hearts were to use the new facility at some point in the future they would have to pay the same costs as any other organisation, because they aren't contributing to the development cost (as they did with part of the SMG money to their present facility).

If you think going into a partnership with a uni is a good idea, you should be getting onto Hibs / Petrie and telling them to sell up East Mains and make a deal with (say) QMU.

[Ozyhibby]

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I don't see why Hearts would have any more or less access to this new facility than any other organisation. Sounds like it is being developed into addition what is already onsite at HWU rather than instead of. So if Hearts were to use the new facility at some point in the future they would have to pay the same costs as any other organisation, because they aren't contributing to the development cost (as they did with part of the SMG money to their present facility).

If you think going into a partnership with a uni is a good idea, you should be getting onto Hibs / Petrie and telling them to sell up East Mains and make a deal with (say) QMU.

Are the Scottish Government spending £30m on a national performance centre at QMU?
Your right about the other stuff though. Hibs should be able to use this facility the same as any other sporting organisation and so long as we are only charged the same as the yams then it's all good.

[E10 Rifle]

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Personally I think that this award win signals the first piece in the Hearts survival jigsaw - call me cynical but Tynie will be sold by new owners, council will back and fund a stadium (maybe with part funding from Hearts, option to buy over time), Hearts will be allowed to train at the new state of the art training complex - they'll no doubt rent not own for years but all cash they raise will thereafter go on football not so much infrastructure - or am I just an old cynic ?

Spot on. Watch David Murray crawl back out the woodwork to support a new stadium for them too.

[clerriehibs]

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Are the Scottish Government spending £30m on a national performance centre at QMU?
Your right about the other stuff though. Hibs should be able to use this facility the same as any other sporting organisation and so long as we are only charged the same as the yams then it's all good.

You'd think all equals would have an equal right to access.

But I doubt it.

homfc using the facilities was alluded to in the bid. I don't know the why's or the wherefores, but if homfc's name was used in the bid, they'll be getting preferential treatment in some shape or form.

[Keith_M]

If this is what it's going to be like in an Independent Scotland, then I'm out!



















Disclaimer: I've already moved abroad so no intention to physically move anywhere else is implied

[Geo_1875]

HoMFC will get access to the new facility as they had a long term agreement to use the existing facility which will be rebuilt. Nobody seems to have mentioned that the Scottish Government are putting up £25m and City of Edinburgh Council are finding £2.5m from somewhere to make up the total cost. I imagine that they will squeeze in something about HoMFC getting priority use of the facility as a condition. It stinks.

[chrisski33]

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HoMFC will get access to the new facility as they had a long term agreement to use the existing facility which will be rebuilt. Nobody seems to have mentioned that the Scottish Government are putting up £25m and City of Edinburgh Council are finding £2.5m from somewhere to make up the total cost. I imagine that they will squeeze in something about HoMFC getting priority use of the facility as a condition. It stinks.

The yams wont get priority use of the facility I can assure u

[Geo_1875]

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The yams wont get priority use of the facility I can assure u

Don't be surprised if the Council get agreement on that. There will be many strings attached to the funding, both from central and local government. The other thing is that Sports Scotland (a centrally funded government body) will manage the facility which will remain in the ownership of Heriot Watt University. The university sports centre and their tenants will continue to operate as before in the shiny new facilities.

[greenginger]

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HoMFC will get access to the new facility as they had a long term agreement to use the existing facility which will be rebuilt. Nobody seems to have mentioned that the Scottish Government are putting up £25m and City of Edinburgh Council are finding £2.5m from somewhere to make up the total cost. I imagine that they will squeeze in something about HoMFC getting priority use of the facility as a condition. It stinks.

By not paying their rent or whatever it was classed as they have broke the terms of their agreement and should have no claim for access whatsoever.

If they are to get use of the facilities it has to be under a completely new agreement.

Come to think about it, may'be the Heriot Watt have played them by not demanding the payments due. How else would they have got rid of a bunch of undesirable cretins with a long lease !

[StevieC]

Is it really that big an issue if Hearts do get access to use the facilities?

They might better facilities by the time it's completed but will it really be a huge coup for them? They have used HWU for a number of years now and there's been very little said about it.

Okay there'll be more pitches, and one of those might be indoors, but how many pitches can you train on at a time, and will it make a huge difference to the team? Players are normally only in for a couple of hours, four times a week, so how much of an advantage will it really be?

[ahibby]

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If this is what it's going to be like in an Independent Scotland, then I'm out!


sclaimer: I've already moved abroad so no intention to physically move anywhere else is implied

Me too. It's a total stitch up. The best location for Scotland would have been central and so Stirling should have been a stick on. The decision stinks.