Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[The Green Goblin]

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quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

Make the time to read the "15" pages. It`s very informative.

[jabis]

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quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

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quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

hearts.not wanting to find out ?

[Dunderhall]

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The clock is ticking and the damn alarm goes off .
BDO press the snooze button.

Snooze button!
Surely they'll pull the plug for everlasting silence.

[Pat 0-7]

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Snooze button!
Surely they'll pull the plug for everlasting silence.

Lets hope so.

This is them we're talking about so I'm waiting on some kind of underhand deal being done to keep them afloat.......they've always been spawny ***** lets face it........

[StevieT]

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This is their page from the OSCR site:-

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-chari...umber=sc037311

Just like the club, their last 2 Returns were late. And, they had a deficit of £30k last year.

Oh, they got £244k Government funding too.


According to that page, you have a right to ask to see their accounts and constitution.

Get Sidney on it.

Reading this I see the following,

Income from charitable activity £86,635
Cost of charitable activity £358,978

Total donations £43,786
Cost of generating donations £59,342

[monktonharp]

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This is exactly what I would have said based on the info I have about the FOH bid. Every time BDO/UKIO asks them to raise their bid they are needing to borrow more money. I'm led to believe this isn't them bidding low expecting to be higher, FOH are going all in every time because the way they see it, they've nothing to lose. If it fails they just give the money back. They are hamstrung by the terms of the direct debits and the fact pledges aren't rising in any significant fashion. They can't borrow too much because they've agreed to pay it back fairly promptly and they would be saddling the club with almost as much debt as it had before.

Liquidation is still the most likely outcome but BDO has every intention at the moment of stringing this out for as long as possible.

can you clarify a point? how many bids have FoH made? I got laughed at, by someone ,for suggesting that the next bid will be their 3rd. In Hindsight, it could actually be their 4rth, as IIRC they actually put up a bid of £450k-£500k initially ,and that was before BDO. correct?

[Hibeesforever]

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Not disagreeing at all, but I think the likely response would be that the money lent to HMFC came from "unrestricted" funds, ie where the donor made no demands on how the money was used, or "core" funds, which are reserves built up over a number of years.

If the money did indeed come from "restricted" funds, then there is a problem. The accounts would help to clarify that.

Thanks, the accounts are not available online but it does say that they can be obtained.
The Big Hearts Community Charity does name all its trustees and therefore any potential conflicts of interest, like board membership of the SFA and membership of connected entities due significant monies like Herriot Watt University are disclosed.

I was only able to spend a short time looking at this and I could be completely wrong but form a search of the OSCR website, typing the names of various football teams like: Hibernian, Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Ross County, St Johnstone, Motherwell, Inverness Caley Thistle, Partick Thistle, Dundee United and St. Mirren, only Big Hearts seemed to have been the beneficiary of government grant funding for the work that they were doing within their community.

It could just be a complete coincidence as the government grant may be separately audited and reported with more detail within the financial statements but I find this very interesting.

Their OSCR financial return was late twice which raises alarm bells immediately. Again, a quick check of OSCR reveals that very few, if any, of the other football charities were late in filing. Of course the records that were due for 31 March 2013 are still outstanding. I do not know if like the 2012 version there is an eleven month return window.

The turnover of the charity is impressive, the First Minister takes a big interest in the activities of the group. He is pictured buying season tickets and encouraging supporters to give money to the organisation for good causes. Whether politically, that is something that a First Minister should use his time to do, is a whole different question. As above, if no other football community group is receiving government assistance then it seems strange.

As you point out CropleywasGod, there is a need to determine what historical funds are restricted or unrestricted. There is also a need to obtain more of an understanding as to what the creditor item relates to within the BDO list of Creditors ? Payment in advance for something or just a straightforward loan of money ? (Apologies if this is elsewhere on the thread) If Big Hearts were acting as a conduit for donations as they now are (eg. see football matches at Spartans during July )then this does seem to be blurring the activities of what constitutes an arms length community group and a bona fide finance raising marketing arm.

I think all football club charities should get government funding and am happy that Hearts are pioneers by utilising this way to help the community and market the club.

I therefore think I will ask my local councillor and MSP to commend Big Hearts for doing this and ask them to personally lobby Parliament to do the same for all football clubs in Scotland. Goodness, then the First Minister would be really busy having to attend all those photo shoots at different grounds all around Scotland. His party mantra is always one of egalitarianism and social justice. Scotland should lead the way in Europe in this area. I would be delighted to give Big hearts the credit for initiating this to all the football clubs in Scotland.

[Dashing Bob S]

Shamelessly getting this chap back in limelight, as I'm too depressed to post anything Hibs related - it's been six years of Groundhog Day.

Any news from der dark side?

[green glory]

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Shamelessly getting this chap back in limelight, as I'm too depressed to post anything Hibs related - it's been six years of Groundhog Day.

Any news from der dark side?

I think it's the initial creditor's meeting today. As FOH are the only show in town, they'll get preferred bidder status. If their offer is not to the Lith's liking. It's Jambogeddon time.

As its only the initial meeting today it won't happen immediately, but won't be long now.

I hope they enjoyed yesterday.

[Liberal Hibby]

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I hope they enjoyed yesterday.

Of course there's a very good chance the history books will record yesterday's result as a 0-3 win for the mighty cabbage!

[Jack Hackett]

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Of course there's a very good chance the history books will record yesterday's result as a 0-3 win for the mighty cabbage!

[Sanger]

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Of course there's a very good chance the history books will record yesterday's result as a 0-3 win for the mighty cabbage!

That's the only way we would have won yesterday!

[Keith_M]

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Of course there's a very good chance the history books will record yesterday's result as a 0-3 win for the mighty cabbage!

If so, it's very likely to be Fenlon's best result of the season.

[Notahappyhibee]

I don't know if this has been asked before if it has sorry.
What if FOH are allowed to buy hearts from the litho's , will the 25mill still be owed ?
I know FOH will apply for a CVA but can the litho's refuse it and sent them into liquidation all the same so they wasted 3 or 4 million for nothing or am I just clinging on to false hope.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I don't know if this has been asked before if it has sorry.
What if FOH are allowed to buy hearts from the litho's , will the 25mill still be owed ?
I know FOH will apply for a CVA but can the litho's refuse it and sent them into liquidation all the same so they wasted 3 or 4 million for nothing or am I just clinging on to false hope.

Who knows what you are doing here.

[Sanger]

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I don't know if this has been asked before if it has sorry.
What if FOH are allowed to buy hearts from the litho's , will the 25mill still be owed ?
I know FOH will apply for a CVA but can the litho's refuse it and sent them into liquidation all the same so they wasted 3 or 4 million for nothing or am I just clinging on to false hope.

The Lith's would have to appove the CVA. If they do the 25mil debt is wiped clean.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I don't know if this has been asked before if it has sorry.
What if FOH are allowed to buy hearts from the litho's , will the 25mill still be owed ?
I know FOH will apply for a CVA but can the litho's refuse it and sent them into liquidation all the same so they wasted 3 or 4 million for nothing or am I just clinging on to false hope.

The purchase price will only be paid if there is a deal.

[Biggie]

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The Lith's would have to appove the CVA. If they do the 25mil debt is wiped clean.

I think they cheating barstewards are going to get away with this.........

[CropleyWasGod]

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I think they cheating barstewards are going to get away with this.........

Take me through that.

[bingo70]

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Take me through that.

Cva gets accepted and they claw back the 12 point defecit?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Cva gets accepted and they claw back the 12 point defecit?

And the secured creditor?

And the frozen shares?

[Biggie]

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Take me through that.

Cva gets accepted.....and they write off £25m.....please feel free to slap me about the heid

[CropleyWasGod]

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Cva gets accepted.....and they write off £25m.....please feel free to slap me about the heid

Consider yourself slapped.

[bingo70]

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And the secured creditor?

And the frozen shares?

Cheers, I was hoping you'd reassure me.

In your opinion is liquidation a forgone conclusion?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Cheers, I was hoping you'd reassure me.

In your opinion is liquidation a forgone conclusion?

Not a foregone conclusion, but it's still the likeliest.

I listened to BJ on the radio at half-time yesterday. If I caught Richard Gordon's question properly, it was along the lines of "is this do-able? You said previously that it was 5/10". BJ's answer was "about the same, but nearer 6 than 4".

Incidentally, everyone at Tynie has to pay for the half-time sannies now.

[Sergey]

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Cheers, I was hoping you'd reassure me.

In your opinion is liquidation a forgone conclusion?

I'll chip in here and state that ongoing administration is a forgone conclusion. With Vlad AWOL and the frozen shares (and shares that are held by others) I simply don't see anyway out of admin in the foreseeable. BDO recently hinted to this which has been forgotten/ignored by FoH and their media.

[CropleyisGod]

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Take me through that.

With all due respect to my fellow Cropley I have some sympathy with the, admittedly illogical, view that this horrible club might somehow escape disaster. In my time supporting God's Own Team only during the Turnbull Years did we get any breaks against the Wongadome zombies. They are the luckiest team in Christendom...King Paddy's injury time equalizer at the school end and Super Ally's 30 yarder into the same goal (0-1, totally against the run of play) are the few things that keep me going ;-)

[Sanger]

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Not a foregone conclusion, but it's still the likeliest.

I listened to BJ on the radio at half-time yesterday. If I caught Richard Gordon's question properly, it was along the lines of "is this do-able? You said previously that it was 5/10". BJ's answer was "about the same, but nearer 6 than 4".

Incidentally, everyone at Tynie has to pay for the half-time sannies now.

you have to think that with A moderate economic recovery and the subsidies from the government we are going to see a modest recovery in house prices and an interest in development sites. My mate at the council who is looking to flog a substantial bit of Meadowbank leaving space for a running track and facilities That would replace the indoor halls says there is plenty of interest from developers. By the way he says no money for capital projects because of the coalitions cuts. So no help for a Yam joint stadium. Given all this the FOH are well short of any valuation of Tynie and can't see them getting any significant fresh cash to put upfront on the table. The independent valuation will show the value of Tynie to be too far off with what is likely to be FOH's next and last bid. Liquidation must follow in the next few weeks.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I'll chip in here and state that ongoing administration is a forgone conclusion. With Vlad AWOL and the frozen shares (and shares that are held by others) I simply don't see anyway out of admin in the foreseeable. BDO recently hinted to this which has been forgotten/ignored by FoH and their media.

That doesn't mean liquidation is inevitable. I think the likelier scenario is that they will muddle through in administration for a longer period, maybe the whole of this season, as BDO have hinted at on more than one occasion. The benefit of this is that it would remove the need for a buyer to fund the deficit caused by the pre-administration ticket sales entering the black hole. It would also allow time, as you suggest, for the legal issues in Lithuania to be resolved. The downside is that Hearts would be unable to sign any players for the duration and the administrators would have to go back to the fans later in the year with an appeal to fill the funding gap.

The justification for going to liquidation sooner rather than later would be if they could get a greater return that way (dubious, depends on who you ask about the PBS land value) and that it caps the fees run up by BDO. I know they ran up about £200K in the first six weeks, but their fees are likely to increase less quickly as the administration goes on because the urgent work (budgeting, redundancies and filtering out unrealistic bidders) has already been done.

[CropleyWasGod]

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That doesn't mean liquidation is inevitable. I think the likelier scenario is that they will muddle through in administration for a longer period, maybe the whole of this season, as BDO have hinted at on more than one occasion. The benefit of this is that it would remove the need for a buyer to fund the deficit caused by the pre-administration ticket sales entering the black hole. It would also allow time, as you suggest, for the legal issues in Lithuania to be resolved. The downside is that Hearts would be unable to sign any players for the duration and the administrators would have to go back to the fans later in the year with an appeal to fill the funding gap.

The justification for going to liquidation sooner rather than later would be if they could get a greater return that way (dubious, depends on who you ask about the PBS land value) and that it caps the fees run up by BDO. I know they ran up about £200K in the first six weeks, but their fees are likely to increase less quickly as the administration goes on because the urgent work (budgeting, redundancies and filtering out unrealistic bidders) has already been done.

The way BJ spoke yesterday, that isn't possible. They don't have the money to last that long.