Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[CB_NO3]

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Can someone please explain to me exactly how the FoH is going to be able to financially run the club season after season. Are they completely reliant on supporters direct debits?


Sorry if this seems a stupid question but I still can't see how this is really workable.

They will run the club the way Petrie and Co run Hibs for example, selling season tickets, match day tickets to home and away fans, selling merchandise, hospitality, getting shirt and stadium sponsors, TV income and so on.

[Keith_M]

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They will run the club the way Petrie and Co run Hibs for example, selling season tickets, match day tickets to home and away fans, selling merchandise, hospitality, getting shirt and stadium sponsors, TV income and so on.

This season is only an issue because they used up the money from 7,000 STs (and possibly more after that) before the season had even started. If they are run properly this year (no laughing at the back) they won't have to use the ST money up front in 2014/15.


Of course, that all depends on the fans and management being happy for the club to live within its means.. and finding the 500k to pay off football debt...and getting a successful CVA.

[YehButNoBut]

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This season is only an issue because they used up the money from 7,000 STs (and possibly more after that) before the season had even started. If they are run properly this year (no laughing at the back) they won't have to use the ST money up front in 2014/15.


Of course, that all depends on the fans and management being happy for the club to live within its means.. and finding the 500k to pay off football debt...and getting a successful CVA.

Just like Rangers then.

[nonshinyfinish]

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Here's the theory, I think.

The direct debits, for this season, are supposed to keep the club afloat this year.

As of next season, the club will trade "normally", and be self-sustainable. The DD's will then be used to pay off whoever (Ann Budge? Ronnie Corbett? Kurt Wallander?) is putting the money up to purchase the club.

So once they've paid off Corbett, they finally really will owe it to themselves?

[Ozyhibby]

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This season is only an issue because they used up the money from 7,000 STs (and possibly more after that) before the season had even started. If they are run properly this year (no laughing at the back) they won't have to use the ST money up front in 2014/15.


Of course, that all depends on the fans and management being happy for the club to live within its means.. and finding the 500k to pay off football debt...and getting a successful CVA.

And start properly maintaining the PBS while saving up( no bank finance available) to fund a new main stand.
All while in the Championship.
Even the best case scenario for the yams is pretty grim.

[joe breezy]

Some posters on here seem to read kickback too much

[Dashing Bob S]

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Ltyf

RLTYF - with no debt, a war chest to buy new world cup stars and a spanking new stand!

[HFC 0-7]

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This season is only an issue because they used up the money from 7,000 STs (and possibly more after that) before the season had even started. If they are run properly this year (no laughing at the back) they won't have to use the ST money up front in 2014/15.


Of course, that all depends on the fans and management being happy for the club to live within its means.. and finding the 500k to pay off football debt...and getting a successful CVA.

The pledges are to be used for the close season between this and next as well as if they start using their season ticket money for next season to get them through the close season they will be in the same position.

[YehButNoBut]

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Can anyone on here get a hand on that pic of the female hearts fan hanging out a romanov out banner out of her window?

Difference between Hearts and Hibs fans

[Onion]

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Just like Rangers then.

Exactly. The yams can't help it. Be like a junky with a new line of credit :)

[jgl07]

The idea of a fan managed club may work for teams like Dunfermline provided that the fans have realistic expectations.

It is totally ludicrous for a team like Hearts with their 'Big Team' mentality. They will always be tempted to spend beyond their means and they will have zero access to credit. Assuming they can stagger on until the season tickets are sold for next season (February 2014?) they will be back into the same routine as recent years. The season ticket money for 2014-2015 will have been partially spent in 2013-2014.

How are they going to raise the cash to even keep the safety certificate for the old stand let alone finance a replacement? They have no access to cheap finance like Hibs have through the guarantees of Tom Farmer.

How long will their fans accept having to pay twice (direct debts and season tickets)? How will they cope with relegation and the inevitable fall in income? They will not be able to react as Hibs did by bringing in the likes of Latapy, Sauzee, and Paatelainen and taking a serious loss.

[bingo70]

Exactly, It's a ****ing stupid idea, they need to put down the crack pipes and get on with forming a new club.

[Ozyhibby]

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The idea of a fan managed club may work for teams like Dunfermline provided that the fans have realistic expectations.

It is totally ludicrous for a team like Hearts with their 'Big Team' mentality. They will always be tempted to spend beyond their means and they will have zero access to credit. Assuming they can stagger on until the season tickets are sold for next season (February 2014?) they will be back into the same routine as recent years. The season ticket money for 2014-2015 will have been partially spent in 2013-2014.

How are they going to raise the cash to even keep the safety certificate for the old stand let alone finance a replacement? They have no access to cheap finance like Hibs have through the guarantees of Tom Farmer.

How long will their fans accept having to pay twice (direct debts and season tickets)? How will they cope with relegation and the inevitable fall in income? They will not be able to react as Hibs did by bringing in the likes of Latapy, Sauzee, and Paatelainen and taking a serious loss.

It's not just Tom Farmer that gets us favourable credit terms. It's a track record of always paying our debts and running a surplus in 7 out of the last 9 years.
Something else the yams don't have.

[hibees 7062]

You just know that every one of these f...wits that put money in will want a meeting every Friday to pick the team

[Kato]

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You just know that every one of these f...wits that put money in will want a meeting every Friday to pick the team

Its a movment alright, just not the way ImanMP means it.

[HibeesLA]

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You just know that every one of these f...wits that put money in will want a meeting every Friday to pick the team

This is going to be the problem. As stated before, they have expectations that far exceed what they will be able to afford with fans investment. Therefore, you'll start getting a divide in the support based on who can afford more, followed by the uber fan debate and who actually gets more of a say than the other. It will all end in tears, which I'm sure FOH are hoping will be after they have somehow made themselves self sufficient with the initial loan paid off.

Can't see it happening, and quite happy to watch it all unfold, assuming they even get that far.

[Time For Heroes]

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Some posters on here seem to read kickback too much

****in too right I do!
To baking cakes, organising raffles, nights at the fringe, posters, t-shirts and ****ing homebrew! Cheers me up daily!

Plus, if I'm really down I go on the betting thread and laugh at all those ********s that lost money.

Makes sense now.
****in homebrew hahaha
Die you inbred *****

[Pat 0-7]

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Difference between Hearts and Hibs fans

Hibs class !!!!!

[rcarter1]

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The idea of a fan managed club may work for teams like Dunfermline provided that the fans have realistic expectations.

It is totally ludicrous for a team like Hearts with their 'Big Team' mentality. They will always be tempted to spend beyond their means and they will have zero access to credit. Assuming they can stagger on until the season tickets are sold for next season (February 2014?) they will be back into the same routine as recent years. The season ticket money for 2014-2015 will have been partially spent in 2013-2014.

How are they going to raise the cash to even keep the safety certificate for the old stand let alone finance a replacement? They have no access to cheap finance like Hibs have through the guarantees of Tom Farmer.

How long will their fans accept having to pay twice (direct debts and season tickets)? How will they cope with relegation and the inevitable fall in income? They will not be able to react as Hibs did by bringing in the likes of Latapy, Sauzee, and Paatelainen and taking a serious loss.

Would be hilarious to see them survive only for a fans owned club to go belly up. If only to get them to face facts once and for all.

If the FoH pull their bid off, and they avoid relegation, Hearts could recover financially very quickly - if they learn how to keep within budget. Unfortunately there are enough trumpets who will walk over broken glass to play for Rangers and Hearts. Big wages arent everything, as long as Hearts keep up their triumphal trumboneering, they will attract half decent players to steady the ship 'because its a massive club'.

This season is our opportunity to horse them big time.

Bring on Sunday!!

[fatbloke]

Of course they can always charge £35 for their premium product. Hearts v Airdrieonians etc etc

[Dunderhall]

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So once they've paid off Corbett, they finally really will owe it to themselves?

RC seems pleased.

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[PatHead]

Looks like the charity office think taking £35,000 from a charity is alright. The charity regulator replied to my request as follows:-
Thank you for your email of 31 July 2013. I can confirm that following media reports regarding the relationship between Big Hearts Community Trust (SC037311) and Heart of Midlothian plc we have recently concluded an inquiry into the charity. We did not identify any regulatory concerns during this inquiry.


We note the amount due to Big Hearts Community Trust from Heart of Midlothian plc, but the existence of a debt due to a charity from a company in administration is not a regulatory matter. If you wish any further information on this you should contact the charity.


Yours sincerely


Angela Miller



Angela Miller | Compliance and Investigation Manager

[Hibbyradge]

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Would be hilarious to see them survive only for a fans owned club to go belly up. If only to get them to face facts once and for all.

If the FoH pull their bid off, and they avoid relegation, Hearts could recover financially very quickly - if they learn how to keep within budget. Unfortunately there are enough trumpets who will walk over broken glass to play for Rangers and Hearts. Big wages arent everything, as long as Hearts keep up their triumphal trumboneering, they will attract half decent players to steady the ship 'because its a massive club'.

This season is our opportunity to horse them big time.

Bring on Sunday!!

I've coloured in the bits that are dubious to say the least.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Looks like the charity office think taking £35,000 from a charity is alright. The charity regulator replied to my request as follows:-
Thank you for your email of 31 July 2013. I can confirm that following media reports regarding the relationship between Big Hearts Community Trust (SC037311) and Heart of Midlothian plc we have recently concluded an inquiry into the charity. We did not identify any regulatory concerns during this inquiry.


We note the amount due to Big Hearts Community Trust from Heart of Midlothian plc, but the existence of a debt due to a charity from a company in administration is not a regulatory matter. If you wish any further information on this you should contact the charity.


Yours sincerely


Angela Miller



Angela Miller | Compliance and Investigation Manager

Yet OSCR get aerated about accounts not being signed on the correct page.

I see their pedantic point, though. In their eyes, it would be at worst be a governance weakness on the part of the charity. If the big bad Yams haven't paid what's due, then the charity isn't to blame......ergo no action.

Bureaucrats.... I hate OSCR

[PatHead]

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Yet OSCR get aerated about accounts not being signed on the correct page.

I see their pedantic point, though. In their eyes, it would be at worst be a governance weakness on the part of the charity. If the big bad Yams haven't paid what's due, then the charity isn't to blame......ergo no action.

Bureaucrats.... I hate OSCR

Can't believe they don't have a problem with money resting in Hearts account though. Does this not breach guidelines, surely? Should Trustees not be held to account or at least managers and do charities have right to lend to Limited Companies?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Can't believe they don't have a problem with money resting in Hearts account though. Does this not breach guidelines, surely? Should Trustees not be held to account or at least managers and do charities have right to lend to Limited Companies?

Whether they have a right to would be defined in their Constitution; every charity's is different. It would be unusual, sure, but not necessarily illegal.

Where I have a problem is in how quickly OSCR seem to have conducted their "investigation". It's been barely a week since the creditors list was published; unless a complaint was made a while back, it does seem a bit rushed.

Any idea who the beneficiaries of the charity are? If they have a say, they at least should be asking questions of the trustees.

[PatHead]

Would the constitution have objectives of the charity and is it worth writing to them to obtain a copy to ascertain of the constitution or would I be flogging a dead horse?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Would the constitution have objectives of the charity and is it worth writing to them to obtain a copy to ascertain of the constitution or would I be flogging a dead horse?

This is their page from the OSCR site:-

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-chari...umber=sc037311

Just like the club, their last 2 Returns were late. And, they had a deficit of £30k last year.

Oh, they got £244k Government funding too.


According to that page, you have a right to ask to see their accounts and constitution.

Get Sidney on it.

[PatHead]

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This is their page from the OSCR site:-

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-chari...umber=sc037311

Just like the club, their last 2 Returns were late. And, they had a deficit of £30k last year.

Oh, they got £244k Government funding too.


According to that page, you have a right to ask to see their accounts and constitution.

Get Sidney on it.

Will do so myself as Sydney will be busy replying to all the letters he received whilst at seton sands. I'll let you know if I ever get a reply and might even write to an MSP about it as Grants are involved

[rcarter1]

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I've coloured in the bits that are dubious to say the least.

Perhaps, but until we know for sure they remain possible. The bit about players joining them because they are 'massive' is obviously tongue in cheek, but even without the inflated wages they can regroup quickly enough next season.
The escape relegation bit is a stretch I admit, but again, until its a done deal, its possible.

FWIW, if they get away with it, what are all supposed to do? Forever be upset that they ditched a load of debt? One way or another, its out of our hands, if they go, they go, and if they stay, they stay. I'm more interested in beating them when we play them.