Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

**Prof. Shaggy** · 23-07-2013 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

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Oh ok. So in your bid you include money that the club has already brought in? "Buying it from themselves", perhaps?

Ah! The Craig Whyte method!

**Notahappyhibee** · 23-07-2013 12:19 PM

I might be daft but whats happening about the 25 million debt ? if F O H are successful with bid do they still have debt over there heads ? And how does it work when the debt not in this country are the laws different ?

***CropleyWasGod*** · 23-07-2013 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Notahappyhibee

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I might be daft but whats happening about the 25 million debt ? if F O H are successful with bid do they still have debt over there heads ? And how does it work when the debt not in this country are the laws different ?

They won't have the Lith debt, but they will have debt due to whoever is putting up the purchase price.

**#FromTheCapital** · 23-07-2013 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

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The Yam cake bakes are an attempt to form an enterprise not only as profitable as Gregg's, but eventually drive them out of business. Thus the Jambos would be able to control the rumour market, destabilizing every rival club.

It's probably the mostt coherent and viable business strategy for rescuing them I've heard so far.

***Caversham Green*** · 23-07-2013 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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If it's a loan or a gift, then there is no VAT or Corporation Tax due.

Hmmm.

If they call it a subscription and there are any benefits to be had then there would be VAT on it, although the variable amounts might suggest it was a gift.

If it became an integral part of their trading operations - which is what they're telling us it will be - then it would not be seen as a gift it would either be a subscription, where VAT would apply, or outside the scope, in which case they might find a proportion of their input recovery is restricted. In either case Corporation Tax would apply, but if they don't go down the Sevyam route they have so much losses to claim from previous years that no CT would be payable.

Unless Vlad used those losses against UBIG's tax through a group claim.

#notcutanddried

**AndyM_1875** · 23-07-2013 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Notahappyhibee

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I might be daft but whats happening about the 25 million debt ? if F O H are successful with bid do they still have debt over there heads ? And how does it work when the debt not in this country are the laws different ?

Caversham and CWG feel free to jump in and correct me here but my understanding is this .......

The FOH bid is reliant on the Lithuanians agreeing to a CVA on the Debt of £25m and they also hold the Floating Charge over the stadium too for £6.8m.
As I've said earlier, unless someone comes along with at least £12-15 million in a briefcase, the club is going under and through the Newco route.

They need to cough up at least 5m for the stadium. Then there is an appropriate figure for the CVA on the 25m of debt to UKIO and UBIG.
Even if the £2m is offered to the Administrator for he Club minus the stadium which the Lithuanians keep probably to initially rent back to the whatever incarnation of Hearts is around and then redevelop as Housing, that's an offer of 8p in the pound which will be even less once the Administrators fees come in so you may be looking at Hearts offering to pay around 5p in the £1 for their debts.

None of this of course includes the necessary working capital to run the club (about £2m) as the income has already been spent trying to keep the patient alive. Smaller creditors like HMRC (owed £1m in future payments) will get absolutely nothing so the public purse gets humped.

Can you see that being arranged?
I sure as hell can't which is why I reckon it's into the Blender of liquidation and here's your pass to Division 3.

**Notahappyhibee** · 23-07-2013 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

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Caversham and CWG feel free to jump in and correct me here but my understanding is this .......

The FOH bid is reliant on the Lithuanians agreeing to a CVA on the Debt of £25m and they also hold the Floating Charge over the stadium too for £6.8m.
As I've said earlier, unless someone comes along with at least £12-15 million in a briefcase, the club is going under and through the Newco route.

They need to cough up at least 5m for the stadium. Then there is an appropriate figure for the CVA on the 25m of debt to UKIO and UBIG.
Even if the £2m is offered to the Administrator for he Club minus the stadium which the Lithuanians keep probably to initially rent back to the whatever incarnation of Hearts is around and then redevelop as Housing, that's an offer of 8p in the pound which will be even less once the Administrators fees come in so you may be looking at Hearts offering to pay around 5p in the £1 for their debts.

None of this of course includes the necessary working capital to run the club (about £2m) as the income has already been spent trying to keep the patient alive. Smaller creditors like HMRC (owed £1m in future payments) will get absolutely nothing so the public purse gets absolutely humped.

Can you see that being arranged?
I sure as hell can't which is why I reckon it's into the Blender of liquidation and here's your pass to Division 3.

Cheers
I'd rather they go roll over in corner and die. The **** can go support Spartans for I care.

***CropleyWasGod*** · 23-07-2013 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

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Caversham and CWG feel free to jump in and correct me here but my understanding is this .......

The FOH bid is reliant on the Lithuanians agreeing to a CVA on the Debt of £25m and they also hold the Floating Charge over the stadium too for £6.8m.
As I've said earlier, unless someone comes along with at least £12-15 million in a briefcase, the club is going under and through the Newco route.

They need to cough up at least 5m for the stadium. Then there is an appropriate figure for the CVA on the 25m of debt to UKIO and UBIG.
Even if the £2m is offered to the Administrator for he Club minus the stadium which the Lithuanians keep probably to initially rent back to the whatever incarnation of Hearts is around and then redevelop as Housing, that's an offer of 8p in the pound which will be even less once the Administrators fees come in so you may be looking at Hearts offering to pay around 5p in the £1 for their debts.

None of this of course includes the necessary working capital to run the club (about £2m) as the income has already been spent trying to keep the patient alive. Smaller creditors like HMRC (owed £1m in future payments) will get absolutely nothing so the public purse gets absolutely humped.

Can you see that being arranged?
I sure as hell can't which is why I reckon it's into the Blender of liquidation and here's your pass to Division 3.

A few minor corrections.

UKIO have a fixed charge on the stadium, plus (possibly) a floating charge on the rest of the assets. UBIG also, possibly, have a floating charge on the assets.

The money that FOH put into the deal is to buy the (majority of the) shares of HMFC. If they own those, they have control of the company which owns the stadium. It's not £5m for the stadium PLUS the CVA.

That money is for 2 things:- 1. to satisfy the secured creditor(s) and 2. to satisfy the unsecured creditors through the CVA. So, if they are bidding (say) £3m, they could divide it up £2m for (1) and £1m for (2).

**AndyM_1875** · 23-07-2013 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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A few minor corrections.

UKIO have a fixed charge on the stadium, plus (possibly) a floating charge on the rest of the assets. UBIG also, possibly, have a floating charge on the assets.

The money that FOH put into the deal is to buy the (majority of the) shares of HMFC. If they own those, they have control of the company which owns the stadium. It's not £5m for the stadium PLUS the CVA.

That money is for 2 things:- 1. to satisfy the secured creditor(s) and 2. to satisfy the unsecured creditors through the CVA. So, if they are bidding (say) £3m, they could divide it up £2m for (1) and £1m for (2).

Thank you CWG.

That makes me think an agreed CVA is even more unlikely.

***greenginger*** · 23-07-2013 12:54 PM

http://www.insolvencynews.com/articl...tration-update

An article from Insolvency News ( top shelf mag. for some posters on here

)

Last paragraph is interesting.

" Ukio Bankas ........ will only accept an offer for the Club and stadium that meets its valuation of the Land. "

I wonder if the land valuation could be the £ 6,800,000 which the Bank has security for and the Liths have seen all this coming at the end of last year.

As for the £ 255.68 p thats maybe for their history !

***Dan Sarf*** · 23-07-2013 12:57 PM

On the BBC Sports page "Hearts in administration: Bidders asked for proof of funding" there are three links to "this story around the web." The first two links lead to the Scotsman and to the Herald. The third is to the Financial Times, headline: "Bidders line up for German bathroom fittings manufacturer Grohe". Sensing a sensational Teutonic toilet-financed takeover bid, I clicked on the link - only to discover it's for FT registered readers only. Can any of you FT-reading financial wizards enlighten us as to what the article says? Hope the jambos aren't in the sh*t or anything?

***CropleyWasGod*** · 23-07-2013 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by greenginger

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http://www.insolvencynews.com/articl...tration-update

An article from Insolvency News ( top shelf mag. for some posters on here

)

Last paragraph is interesting.

" Ukio Bankas ........ will only accept an offer for the Club and stadium that meets its valuation of the Land. "

I wonder if the land valuation could be the £ 6,800,000 which the Bank has security for and the Liths have seen all this coming at the end of last year.

As for the £ 255.68 p thats maybe for their history !

I'm guessing that's speculation, but they may know something. If there is any truth in it, MSM certainly won't have picked it up. The limit of their financial knowledge comes from hibs.net.

**DC_Hibs** · 23-07-2013 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by dan sarf

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"Bidders line up for German bathroom fittings manufacturer Grohe". Can any of you FT-reading financial wizards enlighten us as to what the article says?

The link is that they're sinking fast, soon to be going down the pan, they are a shower of plug ugly bassas and they all sh@9 their cisterns.

Apart from that, #allisbarry

**jgl07** · 23-07-2013 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

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The link is that they're sinking fast, soon to be going down the pan, they are a shower of plug ugly bassas and they all sh@9 their cisterns.

Apart from that, #allisbarry

Has Pat the Plumber made a late bid?

**Cabbage East** · 23-07-2013 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

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The link is that they're sinking fast, soon to be going down the pan, they are a shower of plug ugly bassas and they all sh@9 their cisterns.

Apart from that, #allisbarry

What are you basin that on?

**ballengeich** · 23-07-2013 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by jgl07

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Has Pat the Plumber made a late bid?

Could be - Tynie's full of old boilers wanting a service.

**Prof. Shaggy** · 23-07-2013 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by jgl07

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Has Pat the Plumber made a late bid?

That should bring them out in hot flushes.

***Keith_M*** · 23-07-2013 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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...... MSM certainly won't have picked it up. The limit of their financial knowledge comes from hibs.net.

Sorry to be a dimwit but...what does MSM stand for?

**~~God Petrie~~** · 23-07-2013 02:16 PM

Malmo singing mayhem

**Treadstone** · 23-07-2013 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by keekaboo

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Sorry to be a dimwit but...what does MSM stand for?

Bit of a misnomer here, technically should be MM. Mainstream media.

***Keith_M*** · 23-07-2013 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Treadstone

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Bit of a misnomer here, technically should be MM. Mainstream media.

Oh, OK, it was that simple.

Thanks

**Mr White** · 23-07-2013 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Treadstone

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Bit of a misnomer here, technically should be MM. Mainstream media.

Did it not start out as Mainstream Scottish Media last summer during the death throes of the currant buns?

**joe breezy** · 23-07-2013 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by keekaboo

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Sorry to be a dimwit but...what does MSM stand for?

Moneyless Scoundrels Marooned

**~~Sanger~~** · 23-07-2013 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by greenginger

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http://www.insolvencynews.com/articl...tration-update

An article from Insolvency News ( top shelf mag. for some posters on here

)

Last paragraph is interesting.

" Ukio Bankas ........ will only accept an offer for the Club and stadium that meets its valuation of the Land. "

I wonder if the land valuation could be the £ 6,800,000 which the Bank has security for and the Liths have seen all this coming at the end of last year.

As for the £ 255.68 p thats maybe for their history !

That's the key here. Nobody is coming close to an offer in the CVA that meets the value of the land. Quickly move to liquidation do not pass go!

***Billy Whizz*** · 23-07-2013 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by desantos0773

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That's the key here. Nobody is coming close to an offer in the CVA that meets the value of the land. Quickly move to liquidation do not pass go!

Hence the reason Hibs aren't selling derby tickets yet

***jacomo*** · 23-07-2013 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by desantos0773

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That's the key here. Nobody is coming close to an offer in the CVA that meets the value of the land. Quickly move to liquidation do not pass go!

Still confidently predicting this by Thursday or Friday this week?

***Billy Whizz*** · 23-07-2013 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

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Still confidently predicting this by Thursday or Friday this week?

Lets make sure Thursday/Friday is a joint celebration for Hibs. Qualification against Malmo and Hearts going pop

**Andy74** · 23-07-2013 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by desantos0773

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That's the key here. Nobody is coming close to an offer in the CVA that meets the value of the land. Quickly move to liquidation do not pass go!

If that was going to be the case would they not just have decided that when they saw the value of the bids the other week instead of moving on to the see the colour of the money?

**~~Sanger~~** · 23-07-2013 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Billy Whizz

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Hence the reason Hibs aren't selling derby tickets yet

We''ll cerainly get a clear steer from BDO preparing the ground letting them down gently. They don't want mass crying again a la Dens!

Originally Posted by Andy74

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If that was going to be the case would they not just have decided that when they saw the value of the bids the other week instead of moving on to the see the colour of the money?

Think the Massone bid is almost acceptable to them but of course they have to sell the club as a going concern. If he can show concretely how he is going to fund club then he is the preferred bidder. But this is unlikely as well the fit person stuff. So it is over to liquidation.