Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Hibercelona]

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SSN reporting on who's bidding for them followed by Real Madrid paying £34m for an under 21 international. Is it any wonder the games ****ed?

Hearts are ****ed, so it all balances itself out in the end.

[Seveno]

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I know that, but my question was about whether it was a genuine ad.

The closing date for offers in that ad was yesterday. I know of two enquiries, neither of whom have had acknowledgements or responses from BDO.

If it's genuine, I can understand why they put it out there. I'm unconvinced, though.

Who would bother to take the time and expense of placing a fake advert and why ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Who would bother to take the time and expense of placing a fake advert and why ?

..which is the other question that's been bugging me

When I first raised my question, it was because it had been seen on BusinessesForSale.com, which is free. At that time, I didn't realise that it was in the FT.... when I realised that, my suspicions eased.

Until this week when, as I say, I know of two enquiries.... etc etc.

Factor into that the misleading statements in the ad......

[Deansy]

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It means their offer to the Lithuanians is £2M.

The money they hope/expect to raise from pledges is £1.25M a year for the next three years. This would be used to subsidise the running of the club after they've taken over.

In a sense it's quite a realistic bid, because any new owner will need external finance (in the case of FOH, the pledges) to run the club. They've effectively lost 6000+ ST sales this season because it was used to pay last year's bills before they went bust, so they definitely need subsidising this year. Then there's the risk of being relegated, which would affect them in years 2 and 3 (at least, with Rangers coming up). The biggest problem with the bid is that £2M is below even a conservative estimate of what the Lithuanians could make by just liquidating the company.

This is what I don't get - the piddling amounts (allegedly) being offered when, in reality, they've had an amount of money poured into them that's a lot more than this much-vaunted £25m. Doesn't the 'Debt-for-Equity' deals take the actual amount of hard, physical cash to approximately £60m ??. If I'd given someone a loan of £60 and all they offered back was £2, I'd be looking to give that someone a boot in the plums - i.e - Sell their property ??

[Barrabus]

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So.... if their offer is £5.75m, of which £2m is for the CVA and £3.75m for working capital......

that leaves £nil for the secured creditor(s).

Right.

They've still got to pay £500,000 to HMRC in both May 2014 & May 2015 have they not?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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They've still got to pay £500,000 to HMRC in both May 2014 & May 2015 have they not?

Nope, that tax debt disappeared into the black hole.

[Springbank]

Some plots in west Edinburgh (less attractive and further out than gorgie) are attracting 10-12 bidders for land.

Roughly £10m land value per 100 homes

Tynecastles got a value as housing land or supermarket land

[Barrabus]

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Nope, that tax debt disappeared into the black hole.

It was a "payment by instalments" agreement - surely if the company is still trading then the debt is still due? Can't see HMRC taking this lying down - it's £1m we're talking about here after all!

[Zondervan]

This bit from The Evening News article:


A CVA would enable Hearts to exit administration if it is accepted by the club’s main creditors Ukio Bankas and Ukio Bankas Investment Group (UBIG), who are owed £15m and £10m respectively. They would need to agree to accept a small portion of that amount for a CVA to go through.


Is it not the case that UKIO are secured creditors, and UBIG are more than likely to be. If so, are they both excluded from the CVA?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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It was a "payment by instalments" agreement - surely if the company is still trading then the debt is still due? Can't see HMRC taking this lying down - it's £1m we're talking about here after all!

No. They would get a vote in any CVA proposal, but the likelihood is that they wouldn't be able to block any proposal. It's up to the Lithuanians. Truth is that if they get as far as a CVA being tabled it would almost certainly pass because they would have agreed it in advance with the main creditors.

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This bit from The Evening News article:


A CVA would enable Hearts to exit administration if it is accepted by the club’s main creditors Ukio Bankas and Ukio Bankas Investment Group (UBIG), who are owed £15m and £10m respectively. They would need to agree to accept a small portion of that amount for a CVA to go through.


Is it not the case that UKIO are secured creditors, and UBIG are more than likely to be. If so, are they both excluded from the CVA?

As far as I can tell, UKIO are secured and UBIG are unsecured. UBIG were secured, but that security was transferred to Ukio along with some of the debt last year.

[Islington Hibs]

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Some plots in west Edinburgh (less attractive and further out than gorgie) are attracting 10-12 bidders for land.

Roughly £10m land value per 100 homes

Tynecastles got a value as housing land or supermarket land

If it has planning permission it is easily worth £10m but it currently does not have planning permission and you can imagine how toxic getting permission might be. So I am not surprised CALA have not come back yet.

[weecounty hibby]

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If it has planning permission it is easily worth £10m but it currently does not have planning permission and you can imagine how toxic getting permission might be. So I am not surprised CALA have not come back yet.

I disagree. If it is sold off to a developer then it will get planning permission easily. There is no way that the council would want to have a derelict pile of junk in the middle of the city sitting there doing nothing and rotting into an even bigger mess than it is now. At least at the moment the derelict pile of junk has a football club playing there, although hopefully not for much longer

[Jack]

What surprises me most is the FOH bid, although maybe not considering their inept performance so far.

£2m, even double that, is a derisory amount for the club they seemingly hold in such high regard. Its hardly worth BDO even discussing it with them.

Was it just chat on here, or maybe I imagined it, that BDO dropped hints they'd be looking for around £10m? i.e. the amounts being discussed above as land value.

[londonhibby]

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Thanks guys. Thought i was missing something. No author on article but Bandersons fingerprints all over it.

Wasn't AllisBarry, he's on holiday at the moment.

[Dunderhall]

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Wasn't AllisBarry, he's on holiday at the moment.

He's back twatting though, maybe not allowed to put his name to anything yet in order for it not to be discredited straight away.

He did the usual EEN twat tease just before lunchtime.

[TrinityHibs]

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Some plots in west Edinburgh (less attractive and further out than gorgie) are attracting 10-12 bidders for land.

Roughly £10m land value per 100 homes

Tynecastles got a value as housing land or supermarket land

I missed that one. What site are you referring to?

[Dashing Bob S]

Now that Hearts have won the first silverware of the season, in the form of the Administration Cup, I wonder if we can expect to see them immediately use the riches conferred and splash out on new players?

[Hibs07p]

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He's back twatting though, maybe not allowed to put his name to anything yet in order for it not to be discredited straight away.

He did the usual EEN twat tease just before lunchtime.

#allisbarry is named in the paper edition.


GGTTH

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Looks like things are looking up for them after their outstanding performance in todays begging bowl cup to lift the famous trophy and a share of the gate money fron the whopping 4000 crowd

[greenginger]

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What surprises me most is the FOH bid, although maybe not considering their inept performance so far.

£2m, even double that, is a derisory amount for the club they seemingly hold in such high regard. Its hardly worth BDO even discussing it with them.

Was it just chat on here, or maybe I imagined it, that BDO dropped hints they'd be looking for around £10m? i.e. the amounts being discussed above as land value.

There will have to be an allowance made for un-secured creditors say 10% = £200,000 and BDO's fees ( £800,000 ? ) would also come out of the £ 2 million.

Anyone think the Liths will happily accept £ 1 million.

[lord bunberry]

I noticed there was a bumper 4500 at the administration cip match today. After costs are deducted there won't be much left

[Sanger]

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This bit from The Evening News article:


A CVA would enable Hearts to exit administration if it is accepted by the club’s main creditors Ukio Bankas and Ukio Bankas Investment Group (UBIG), who are owed £15m and £10m respectively. They would need to agree to accept a small portion of that amount for a CVA to go through.


Is it not the case that UKIO are secured creditors, and UBIG are more than likely to be. If so, are they both excluded from the CVA?

They get a vote in line with how much their debt exceeds the value if the assets the debt is secured on. So £20m (25 - 5) if the whole if HMFC and stadium worth £5m. That is they would be more than 75% of the vote.

[Seveno]

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..which is the other question that's been bugging me

When I first raised my question, it was because it had been seen on BusinessesForSale.com, which is free. At that time, I didn't realise that it was in the FT.... when I realised that, my suspicions eased.

Until this week when, as I say, I know of two enquiries.... etc etc.

Factor into that the misleading statements in the ad......

And those two enquiries are.......?

[Dunderhall]

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#allisbarry is named in the paper edition.


GGTTH

So definitely cack then.

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And those two enquiries are.......?

Would have been three if Sidney hadn't used 2nd class stamps.

[Ship Hibs]

Where did the Romanov pic on this thread come from? Is it photoshop handy work, did he lose a bet and have to wear the top or is it he was a Hibbie all along?

[Mr White]

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Where did the Romanov pic on this thread come from? Is it photoshop handy work, did he lose a bet and have to wear the top or is it he was a Hibbie all along?

A little from column a, a little from column c mate!

[Sanger]

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They get a vote in line with how much their debt exceeds the value if the assets the debt is secured on. So £20m (25 - 5) if the whole if HMFC and stadium worth £5m. That is they would be more than 75% of the vote.

Of course this depends on what value HMFC is given but that should match the the highest bid (£4-5 million). Also is the £10 million UBIG debt secured? My feeling is no as the shares they hold come from the debt to equity conversions. This still leaves Ukio Bankas with £10m of debt (15m -5m) in a CVA vote so unless the remaining unsecured debt exceed £3.33m they will have more than 75% of any CVA vote.

[Geo_1875]

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Of course this depends on what value HMFC is given but that should match the the highest bid (£4-5 million). Also is the £10 million UBIG debt secured? My feeling is no as the shares they hold come from the debt to equity conversions. This still leaves Ukio Bankas with £10m of debt (15m -5m) in a CVA vote so unless the remaining unsecured debt exceed £3.33m they will have more than 75% of any CVA vote.

Is the widely quoted £25m owed to UBIG/Ukio a final confirmed figure? Is it possible that the Lithuanian authorities could decide the debt for equity swaps and debt write offs were dodgy and reverse them somehow?

[Dashing Bob S]

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Is the widely quoted £25m owed to UBIG/Ukio a final confirmed figure? Is it possible that the Lithuanian authorities could decide the debt for equity swaps and debt write offs were dodgy and reverse them somehow?

That would be fun!

I would have thought, when they start following the money coming in and out of that group of companies, this and many more issues will be flagged up.

[Treadstone]

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Where did the Romanov pic on this thread come from? Is it photoshop handy work, did he lose a bet and have to wear the top or is it he was a Hibbie all along?

Original.