Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Treadstone]

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Huns in 92/93 played in the (first ever) Champions League groups, which were 2 groups of 4 with the winners progressing to the final. Huns finished second to Sauzee's Marseille.

Definitely not counting this. The Huns as they were then, won two games due to fluke goals in the group. The 'away' game against CSKA played in Germany i think. Everything went for them that year and still greeting their eyes oot about Tapie.

[Liberal Hibby]

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I've seen a valuation of £4.5m tops for Tynie. It's a buy and hold when property prices are falling in Edinburgh and plenty of more attractive sites and empty new builds. £7m way to high.

Really - property prices are bouncing back strongly and it was valued at more than £20m six years ago. There has to be a realisitic chance of getting at least the secured value on it in an open market sale. Why wouldn't the Liths want to test out its development value?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Really - property prices are bouncing back strongly and it was valued at more than £20m six years ago. There has to be a realisitic chance of getting at least the secured value on it in an open market sale. Why wouldn't the Liths want to test out its development value?

If the "other advert" is genuine, BDO have been testing that market. Perhaps that's a tactical move, to show the Liths how much they might expect on the open market.

[Sanger]

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Really - property prices are bouncing back strongly and it was valued at more than £20m six years ago. There has to be a realisitic chance of getting at least the secured value on it in an open market sale. Why wouldn't the Liths want to test out its development value?

Down 3.7% in the last quarter! They have already done this through the BDO advert.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...es/html/qp.stm

[Waxy]

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certainly would be the Hearts way. More clubs going in administration will no doubt follow the same jammy routes in future.

Surely there has to be a rule about being liquidated during the season?

[Gus Fring]

Barry's figures are wrong. I wasn't given the working capital figures yesterday but the CVA money is way out. Every one of them is higher than the figure I was told and I've no reason to doubt my source as he's been bang on about everything thus far. What's laughable is even Barry's exaggerated numbers are unlikely to save Hearts.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Down 3.7% in the last quarter! They have already done this through the BDO advert.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...es/html/qp.stm

Is it genuine, though? People I know, who have responded to it, have had no feedback from BDO.

If it is genuine, the deadline was yesterday. What response was there to it?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Surely there has to be a rule about being liquidated during the season?

If a company that owns a club is liquidated, it ceases to be. It is an ex-company.

[Treadstone]

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Barry's figures are wrong. I wasn't given the working capital figures yesterday but the CVA money is way out. Every one of them is higher than the figure I was told and I've no reason to doubt my source as he's been bang on about everything thus far. What's laughable is even Barry's exaggerated numbers are unlikely to save Hearts.

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...bids-1-3000656

Thanks to the financial whizzes on here, i thought i was getting my head around this. The EEN today is confusing. Anyone decipher this paragraph particularly.

Foundation of Hearts’ offer totals £5.75 million, including £2m to fund a Creditors’ Voluntary Arrangement (CVA). The remaining £3.75m would come from fans. The Foundation calculate that cash pledges from around 5700 fans at an average of £18.50 per month can be used as working capital to run Hearts for the next three years.

[Gus Fring]

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http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...bids-1-3000656

Thanks to the financial whizzes on here, i thought i was getting my head around this. The EEN today is confusing. Anyone decipher this paragraph particularly.

The whole FOH bid is massively flawed. What Barry doesn't take in to account is that some of that Direct Debit money has to be used to pay back the CVA money to the people who loaned it to FOH in the first place and there is absolutely no way in hell they'll still have 5700 Direct Debits in 3 years time. The whole business model just doesn't work.

[Makaveli]

I wonder if Banderson will end up being held partially culpable for their demise?

His endless allisbarry chat is funny to us, but they actually believe it! Complacency born of his "there are no tanks in Baghdad" lies is going to kill them.

From the Wonga million to these vastly inflated figures, the average Hearts fan who only reads the papers thinks that things are a lot less serious than they are.

Cheers Baz, you total roaster.

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...bids-1-3000656

Thanks to the financial whizzes on here, i thought i was getting my head around this. The EEN today is confusing. Anyone decipher this paragraph particularly.

So.... if their offer is £5.75m, of which £2m is for the CVA and £3.75m for working capital......

that leaves £nil for the secured creditor(s).

Right.

[DevonLoch]

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I actually thought BJ was quite impressive here though the alacrity with which he said NO was pleasing. It really only serves to confirm my impression though that BDO are p-ing in the wind for now. They're working their way through the standard admin template, making a decent fist of it, keeping themselves busy & justifying their fees but they know that someone's parked a great big submarine across the road ahead & TBH I don't think they have a clue (understandably) how to proceed beyond that point. Happy days!
ps, he really does have a cadaverous look!

Definitely a touch of the reaper about him!


brian-jackson-tynecastle.jpg

[Part/Time Supporter]

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http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...bids-1-3000656

Thanks to the financial whizzes on here, i thought i was getting my head around this. The EEN today is confusing. Anyone decipher this paragraph particularly.

It means their offer to the Lithuanians is £2M.

The money they hope/expect to raise from pledges is £1.25M a year for the next three years. This would be used to subsidise the running of the club after they've taken over.

In a sense it's quite a realistic bid, because any new owner will need external finance (in the case of FOH, the pledges) to run the club. They've effectively lost 6000+ ST sales this season because it was used to pay last year's bills before they went bust, so they definitely need subsidising this year. Then there's the risk of being relegated, which would affect them in years 2 and 3 (at least, with Rangers coming up). The biggest problem with the bid is that £2M is below even a conservative estimate of what the Lithuanians could make by just liquidating the company.

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Did they actually, though?

And, if it is a genuine ad, were there any offers?

The FT ad was for the business and assets of Hearts, ie to continue as a football club.

It's only if the offers on that basis fall well short of expectations will they seriously explore the option of selling it on a break-up basis.

[Treadstone]

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The whole FOH bid is massively flawed. What Barry doesn't take in to account is that some of that Direct Debit money has to be used to pay back the CVA money to the people who loaned it to FOH in the first place and there is absolutely no way in hell they'll still have 5700 Direct Debits in 3 years time. The whole business model just doesn't work.

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So.... if their offer is £5.75m, of which £2m is for the CVA and £3.75m for working capital......

that leaves £nil for the secured creditor(s).

Right.

Thanks guys. Thought i was missing something. No author on article but Bandersons fingerprints all over it.

[BarneyK]

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at best the Liths in total get £4.5m from the unpopular liquidation of Tynie. This way they are not seen as killing the club. In a CVA their proportion of the debt is the amount their debt exceeds the assets they are secured on which will make them 90% of the creditors. So £5m gives them £4.5m and leaves Massone with the knife in his hands!

They wouldn't be killing the club, just relieving them of their stadium. They're talking about moving anyway and you can just bet once all this - "It's only worth a pittance" - is done with and they've bought it for said pittance, they'll be trying to sell it for a bundle to help finance their new stadium somewhere new.

[Gatecrasher]

wonder how much the prize money is for winning the administration cup

[Sanger]

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Is it genuine, though? People I know, who have responded to it, have had no feedback from BDO.

If it is genuine, the deadline was yesterday. What response was there to it?

BDO will gave put there feelers out as well as the bidders as to what is market price of Tynie that is the basis for the value of their bids as they know that is the benchmark.

[Treadstone]

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It means their offer to the Lithuanians is £2M.

The money they hope/expect to raise from pledges is £1.25M a year for the next three years. This would be used to subsidise the running of the club after they've taken over.

In a sense it's quite a realistic bid, because any new owner will need external finance (in the case of FOH, the pledges) to run the club. They've effectively lost 6000+ ST sales this season because it was used to pay last year's bills before they went bust, so they definitely need subsidising this year. Then there's the risk of being relegated, which would affect them in years 2 and 3 (at least, with Rangers coming up). The biggest problem with the bid is that £2M is below even a conservative estimate of what the Lithuanians could make by just liquidating the company.

Realistic in the sense its what they think they can afford. There must be serious doubts about 5000+ pledgers over three years. They would probably have to pay the person(s), who ponied up the original £2m, back during that time period as well, wouldn't want to wait beyond that if i was the original lender.

Has Massone possibly appealed to the seller by just giving a figure as i don't see why they would be interested in working capital unless its linked to the bid. ie your previous post with conditions for more money to be paid over an agreed period of time ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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BDO will gave put there feelers out as well as the bidders as to what is market price of Tynie that is the basis for the value of their bids as they know that is the benchmark.

You didn't answer the question

If I knew the answer to it, I might have a better feel for what their tactics are.

[greenginger]

If BDO were serious in their efforts to get offers for the land only they would have advertised it a bit more prominently than they have.

If it was'nt for Hibs.net I would have been totally unaware of the potential asset sale and I don't suppose we are the first point of contact for parties interested in 7acres of city centre land.

I dare say BDO can wire back the Lith admin. and tell him there had been no interest in the land only despite it being advertised. I wonder if BDO even bothered to drop a private note to Companies and agents who might be interested.

[CropleyWasGod]

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If BDO were serious in their efforts to get offers for the land only they would have advertised it a bit more prominently than they have.

If it was'nt for Hibs.net I would have been totally unaware of the potential asset sale and I don't suppose we are the first point of contact for parties interested in 7acres of city centre land.

I dare say BDO can wire back the Lith admin. and tell him there had been no interest in the land only despite it being advertised. I wonder if BDO even bothered to drop a private note to Companies and agents who might be interested.

Did they actually, though?

And, if it is a genuine ad, were there any offers?

[greenginger]

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Did they actually, though?

And, if it is a genuine ad, were there any offers?

If there were any offers why has BDO not mentioned them.

[CropleyWasGod]

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If there were any offers why has BDO not mentioned them.

Why has no-one asked?


I think Hibs.net should be at the next BDO press conference.

[Dunderhall]

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If there were any offers why has BDO not mentioned them.

How do we know they haven't.
No one knows the context of each bid.

[greenginger]

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Why has no-one asked?


I think Hibs.net should be at the next BDO press conference.

Better still can someone not communicate with the Lith. Admins. and hint that their appointees are not trying hard enough.

[CropleyWasGod]

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How do we know they haven't.
No one knows the context of each bid.

Indeed.

Like I say, maybe the right questions aren't being asked.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The FT ad was for the business and assets of Hearts, ie to continue as a football club.

It's only if the offers on that basis fall well short of expectations will they seriously explore the option of selling it on a break-up basis.

I know that, but my question was about whether it was a genuine ad.

The closing date for offers in that ad was yesterday. I know of two enquiries, neither of whom have had acknowledgements or responses from BDO.

If it's genuine, I can understand why they put it out there. I'm unconvinced, though.

[YehButNoBut]

Just wondering if Hearts are liquidated, which is looking more likely by the day, should we wear the black strip for the rest of the season as a mark of respect.

Just a suggestion.

[jdships]

Bajillions

[B] "..........there is absolutely no way in hell they'll still have 5700 Direct Debits in 3 years time. The whole business model just doesn't work @ /B].[/QUOTE]

Spot on !!
As I have posted on here earlier I have Jambo mates who don't intend leaving the DD in place after 31st December 2013 .
@ Club has to be run as a business ' is their take on the situation
To be honest for the ordinary guy in the street like most of us on here there are far too many imponderables re the debts to the Lithuanians to be able to make any real forecast as to what will happen in the short to mid term