Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Gus Fring]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I've been out of the loop for the last week and a half and only been able to catch snippets of the thread.

Hearts didn't sell the 3000 season tickets in 2 weeks they wanted to but they have raised enough money to survive for the time being my source tells me. Morale is starting to drop again significantly despite this. The staff still haven't got a clue what's going on and all the talk of different consortiums is getting frustrating now, "every few days theres a new interested party and we forget about the old one, this process repeats at least once every 3 days" they said.

Another quote

"Foundation of Hearts have no chance of owning the club, the administrator doesn't think they've got a viable business model so wouldn't sell to them, they are just keeping them sweet because they'd get lynched by fans if they told them to beat it. The only way that shower will have any involvement is if they get tacked on to another, far more credible bid"

Nothing earth shattering but then I'm told nothing exciting is really happening at Tynecastle, it's all very mundane, going through the motions until the season starts

[CropleyWasGod]

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BDO have enticed 3000 people to part with a lot of cash on the premise that this would give Hearts a decent shot at exiting Administration and assumption they would be playing SPL football in the coming season. They must have done this with some knowledge of the creditors likely demands and FOH/others funding positions. Their job is to broker a deal.

Yet just DAYS after squeezing fans for cash they get bearish and start talking about admin problems and possible Newco (with likely 3rd Div football ???). Whole thing feels like a legalised scam - process or not

It's one thing having discussions with possible buyers, and quite another getting bids out of them. That is why BDO set the deadline for bids, to see who is serious. They set it early, recognising the cash shortfall, and tried to create a safety net by selling more ST's. That is only right; again, it's in their job spec.

They ARE trying to broker a deal; that's part of their job. But, like an estate agent trying to sell your house..... if the bid doesn't actually materialise, no matter how hard they work, its not their fault.

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A house you have more chance of getting value for, my concern is the case of Ibrox & Murray Park.

As I mentioned above, this is a different situation.

AFAIK, D&P didn't market the RFC assets in the public domain. The criticism is therefore that they didn't sell for market value.

If the BDO advert in the FT this week is genuine, then they ARE marketing the Hearts' assets. That way, they WILL be sold for market value, even if it is peanuts.

[Sanger]

Big problem for buying assets from Oldco for Newco is that none of the interested parties have sufficient funds to meet the minimum Ukio Bankas/UBIG administrators require. That is why a complete liquidation of Tynie & HMFC is on the cards.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Big problem for buying assets from Oldco for Newco is that none of the interested parties have sufficient funds to meet the minimum Ukio Bankas/UBIG administrators require. That is why a complete liquidation of Tynie & HMFC is on the cards.

How much is that?

[Sanger]

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How much is that?

I would say £8 million cash upfront

[CropleyWasGod]

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I would say £8 million cash upfront

That's probably a decent shout. But, bottom line, if there are no bids of that much, then they have to take what's offered, or else take possession of the PBS and sell it themselves.

[Billy Whizz]

What happens during the season if they have to form a Newco?
I'm presuming also, it would require the new league body to transfer the share.
If this had been answered before I apologise.

[CropleyWasGod]

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What happens during the season if they have to form a Newco?
I'm presuming also, it would require the new league body to transfer the share.
If this had been answered before I apologise.

Nobody knows, TBH. We've not been here before

But, yes, the share (and the SFA membership) would have to be transferred.

[Jack]

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Just to put the record straight, I don't think they acted in the best interest of the creditors either. BDO will certainly not whitewash the issue, but nor will they make any accusations if D&P had a strong legal case for acting the way they did. That's life.

When you say "if D&P had a strong legal case for acting the way they did." do you mean a more expensive legal team? ;-)

More seriously, if indeed this is serious for us, two questions please.

Why is it important to secure the shares?
Given they are now worthless and the BDO have been installed by a court of law, why can't they just write to the shareholders and say that and that we are trying to clear up the mess - and then get on with it. It seems the share problem is holding everything up and devaluing what they are trying to gain. And

The secured creditor status.
Sorry this is an old one that's been bugging me. Certainly in this case it just seems that an ordinary creditor has been given special status cause they're 'mates' while everyone else is left scrambling about for the scraps. In laymen terms, please, why is this apparent con allowed?

Thanks.

[Kojock]

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It seems obvious to me that a Newco is going to be the solution - they're just going through the motions at the moment.

I got the sack from a sewage treatment plant cause they said I was going the the motions. It was a 5hit job anyway.

[Billy Whizz]

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Nobody knows, TBH. We've not been here before

But, yes, the share (and the SFA membership) would have to be transferred.

Thanks, I'm sure the governing bodies are looking at this closely. This could turn into a real mess, if they start the season and then a Newco was to kick in

[Kojock]

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Thanks, I'm sure the governing bodies are looking at this closely. This could turn into a real mess, if they start the season and then a Newco was to kick in

Surely the SPFL should be asking for guarantees that Hertz will be able to survive till the end of the season then if not expulsion from the SPL should follow.

[CropleyWasGod]

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When you say "if D&P had a strong legal case for acting the way they did." do you mean a more expensive legal team? ;-)

More seriously, if indeed this is serious for us, two questions please.

Why is it important to secure the shares?
Given they are now worthless and the BDO have been installed by a court of law, why can't they just write to the shareholders and say that and that we are trying to clear up the mess - and then get on with it. It seems the share problem is holding everything up and devaluing what they are trying to gain. And

The secured creditor status.
Sorry this is an old one that's been bugging me. Certainly in this case it just seems that an ordinary creditor that's been given special status cause they're 'mates' while everyone else is left scrambling about for the scraps. In laymen terms, please, what is this apparent con allowed?

Thanks.

1. by securing the shares, Cav means the shares that UBIG (and others) have in HMFC. BDO need to take possession of them before they can complete the administration. It's crucial to the process.

2. secured creditors are usually banks that have lent a company (or an individual, eg for a mortgage) substantial amounts of money. They have taken more risk than most creditors and, in return for that risk, can take out a security. That security gives them preferential status in a situation like this.

It's nothing to do with being mates or a scam. If a bank couldn't have that security, with its legal privileges, they just wouldn't lend.

[Sanger]

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Thanks, I'm sure the governing bodies are looking at this closely. This could turn into a real mess, if they start the season and then a Newco was to kick in

Think SPL or whatever they are now called ha a plan B in place. July 12 will be key date as BDO will announce no meaningful bids and move to liquidation/newco at which point plan b

[Billy Whizz]

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Think SPL or whatever they are now called ha a plan B in place. July 12 will be key date as BDO will announce no meaningful bids and move to liquidation/newco at which point plan b

Interesting, might not be a derby on the 10th August then

[Ray_]

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That's probably a decent shout. But, bottom line, if there are no bids of that much, then they have to take what's offered, or else take possession of the PBS and sell it themselves.

Thanks for that, I was thinking that Ukio would have to take what was offered and not have the opportunity to take hold of the asset.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thanks for that, I was thinking that Ukio would have to take what was offered and not have the opportunity to take hold of the asset.

TBH, I don't know if they would take hold of the PBS in practice. Given that they have to get a decent return for their creditors, they would still have to sell it.

So... in reality.... take £5m (say) for it through the administration.... or.... take possession of it, and still end up getting the same, less all the marketing costs.

[PapillonVert]

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Think SPL or whatever they are now called ha a plan B in place. July 12 will be key date as BDO will announce no meaningful bids and move to liquidation/newco at which point plan b

What is a "meaningful" bid. Seems to me to be anything you decide it to mean. If someone offered a "not-at-the_moment _meaningful-but-might_be,b9" would that be meaningful?

[Sanger]

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What is a "meaningful" bid. Seems to me to be anything you decide it to mean. If someone offered a "not-at-the_moment _meaningful-but-might_be,b9" would that be meaningful?

Definitely not !

[PapillonVert]

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Definitely not !

Ach, I'm just a simpleton in these matters.

[greenginger]

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Hmmm, not sure I agree.

I could start up a company today. It would therefore be ready to take over the assets of HMFC at any time.

The issue, though, would be the transfer of the SFA memberships and SPFL share. They would need to be ratified, and it's that that would take time.

May'be thats why this company was kept alive. Would'nt even have to change the name.




http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails


And seeing how the Company was formed in 1990 the Yams will claim its not a NewCo !

[CropleyWasGod]

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May'be thats why this company was kept alive. Would'nt even have to change the name.




http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails


And seeing how the Company was formed in 1990 the Yams will claim its not a NewCo !

Do you know that none of your CH links ever work?

[greenginger]

They work when I click them I think I need lessons or a new lap-top

[Mellow Hibee]

What would happen if, on the back of the FT advert someone said to the administrators that they would happily bid £5.5M for the stadium alone for development.

Meanwhile the highest bid for the club is £5.25M plus enough to satisfy the creditors with a CVA.

Do BDO have a duty to keep the club a going concern if at all possible or would they simply sell the ground then sell the other assets to the highest bidder through liquidation?

[sidneyhibbie]

It would be stunning if a for sale board went up at the PBS And they get evicted, the perfect scenario is liquidation and horsed out of the HWU Due to unpaid rent currently 160k and rising this scenario could happen if the Liths do not play ball.

Best to get the seat belts on as this is gonna be fun.

[FranckSuzy]

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It would be stunning if a for sale board went up at the PBS And they get evicted, the perfect scenario is liquidation and horsed out of the HWU Due to unpaid rent currently 160k and rising this scenario could happen if the Liths do not play ball.

Best to get the seat belts on as this is gonna be fun.

Suzy agrees

[Eyrie]

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TBH, I don't know if they would take hold of the PBS in practice. Given that they have to get a decent return for their creditors, they would still have to sell it.

So... in reality.... take £5m (say) for it through the administration.... or.... take possession of it, and still end up getting the same, less all the marketing costs.

But BDO say they'll take their fees from the sale proceeds.

To my mind the administrators of Ukio Bankas would be better to take possession of the PBS in exchange for writing off their debt, and that way they get the proceeds less marketing fees, which will surely be a higher amount than the proceeds less BDO's fees.

[Sergey]

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It would be stunning if a for sale board went up at the PBS And they get evicted, the perfect scenario is liquidation and horsed out of the HWU Due to unpaid rent currently 160k and rising this scenario could happen if the Liths do not play ball.

Best to get the seat belts on as this is gonna be fun.

　　

I've mentioned this on the PM forum and I'm happy to say it again - The LT government are under extreme political pressure to call the Ukio bankruptcy right - ie, in the best interests of the LT taxpayer.

This is a fairly new government and they campaigned strongly prior to coming to power on correcting the wrongs of the LT financial markets. Bankas Snoras went belly-up a few years ago and the aftermath was mismanaged from Day 1. The current incumbents in power really focused on this case in their political campaign and are now under the microscope to do what's right for the nation - not what's right for some two-bob, bigoted, SPL club.

I'm confident that the Lith's can't play ball even if they wanted to.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

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**** me - nearly 600 guests on a pre season friendly thread. Notice also a registered Yam is on here. Must be wondering how teams with a bit of money do their pre-seasons.

Gary Cock's team were playing the mighty Selkirk today, I think.

[sidneyhibbie]

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I've mentioned this on the PM forum and I'm happy to say it again - The LT government are under extreme political pressure to call the Ukio bankruptcy right - ie, in the best interests of the LT taxpayer.

This is a fairly new government and they campaigned strongly prior to coming to power on correcting the wrongs of the LT financial markets. Bankas Snoras went belly-up a few years ago and the aftermath was mismanaged from Day 1. The current incumbents in power really focused on this case in their political campaign and are now under the microscope to do what's right for the nation - not what's right for some two-bob, bigoted, SPL club.

I'm confident that the Lith's can't play ball even if they wanted to.

Liking what you are saying Sergey to them on broke back who mock me and Sergey go and bake a cake