Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Andy74]

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That's exactly what my jambo mate told me this morning (see my earlier post)

If all other cash is gone then a few ST's is only going to pay bills and wages for a few weeks.

The new ownership stuff is nonsense right now whilst all the Lith stuff is where it is. There currently isn't away to get the football club and stadium without the debt.

[Caversham Green]

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Close this thread....seems all will be well, lifted this from 5-11902.co.uk


Please bare with me. Heard today that the club is in a serious place regarding a shortfall of money to get us over the summer. Whilst we know all know this is not exactly new 'news' it was the gravity of the situation that shocked me. However it was pointed out that if everyone who had a season ticket last year and hasn't currently not renewed but then did so, then things would improve dramatically.

So why renew? Well, I can say with some degree of knowledge that the move to have new owners is moving fast and that things will take a turn for the positive fairly soon. I am geniunely not privvy to more than this but I can assure everyone that things are further down the line than simply 'consortiums' registering an interest.

So, what do can we do to help in the meantime? Simple enough, I am sure we all know someone who has not renewed from last season - badger them to do so. This is so vital to us right now - bringing the fans back on board not just for this season but going forward. Every additional season ticket will help us take that step towards being self sufficient and with likely new owners on the horizon then I cannot see anything but a positive future for Heart of Midlothian espically after years of uncertainty and at times negativity. (Apologise for the lack of PUNCTUATION - MY PC IS PLAYING UP).

No doubt I will get slaughtered by some but the message is clear - get you friends and family memebers who are lapsed ST holders back on board again - we have all put our money where our mouth is over the last year or so but I firmly believe that we are almost there with new owners but we just need the income that ST revenue will bring us to get us through the summer. Every ST bought is a step towards a positive future!!!!

I've just had a look on JKB and the person who posted this is someone who appears to be relatively sensible and ITK - I would certainly expect him/her to know that the events he/she is predicting simply can't happen.

That smell I mentioned earlier just got a lot stronger.

[Treadstone]

I think a poster nailed it a few days ago, FoH don't want to start collecting the money yet as the pledges are nowhere near anything that is required. The logistics of getting the money back to the pledgers (plebs) is currently more trouble than its worth.

Preview of FoH meeting next week. Ian Murray MP "all those in favour to see if we can SOUND OUT HoMFC to see if they're INTERESTED in NEGOTIATING an OFFER"

[matty_f]

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If all other cash is gone then a few ST's is only going to pay bills and wages for a few weeks.

The new ownership stuff is nonsense right now whilst all the Lith stuff is where it is. There currently isn't away to get the football club and stadium without the debt.

The lack of funds and income to see out the season is fairly critical for talk of a new owner - as it means that not only will they need sufficient capital to purchase enough of the millions of shares to get control and clear at least some of the debt (unless they're able to buy the club and not the bus stop) but they'll need enough money to run the club for the season, which given that the majority of season tickets have now been sold, means that they need pretty much to have that money in the bank immediately to have any hope of seeing out the season. If they are relying on folk giving £20 a month here and there, they'll soon find that once the immediate danger has passed, folk will start to keep that money to themselves.

[Seveno]

If most of next season's ST money is already spent, it hardly makes it attractive to a buyer. Even more capital required.

Unless they do a Craigy and try to mortgage the next 3 seasons ST money.

[Treadstone]

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If most of next season's ST money is already spent, it hardly makes it attractive to a buyer. Even more capital required.

Unless they do a Craigy and try to mortgage the next 3 seasons ST money.

I bet that hasn't been ruled out.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I've just had a look on JKB and the person who posted this is someone who appears to be relatively sensible and ITK - I would certainly expect him/her to know that the events he/she is predicting simply can't happen.

That smell I mentioned earlier just got a lot stronger.

Someone being ITK can work against them if they are being fed bull****.

ie it's in the interests of the regime to feed false hope

[jacomo]

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Sounds like another letter from Fedotovas.

Yup, I'd say so. The "we're in deep trouble but if you give more money things might work out ok" message does seem wearily familiar.

[Mac]

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Someone being ITK can work against them if they are being fed bull****.

ie it's in the interests of the regime to feed false hope

Coud be someone feeding them from the club or someone from the club itself, im leaning towards the latter

[Seveno]

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Sounds like another letter from Fedotovas.

As in 'Please send more money for my salary this month'.

[poolman]

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Close this thread....seems all will be well, lifted this from 5-11902.co.uk


Please bare with me. Heard today that the club is in a serious place regarding a shortfall of money to get us over the summer. Whilst we know all know this is not exactly new 'news' it was the gravity of the situation that shocked me. However it was pointed out that if everyone who had a season ticket last year and hasn't currently not renewed but then did so, then things would improve dramatically.

So why renew? Well, I can say with some degree of knowledge that the move to have new owners is moving fast and that things will take a turn for the positive fairly soon. I am geniunely not privvy to more than this but I can assure everyone that things are further down the line than simply 'consortiums' registering an interest.

So, what do can we do to help in the meantime? Simple enough, I am sure we all know someone who has not renewed from last season - badger them to do so. This is so vital to us right now - bringing the fans back on board not just for this season but going forward. Every additional season ticket will help us take that step towards being self sufficient and with likely new owners on the horizon then I cannot see anything but a positive future for Heart of Midlothian espically after years of uncertainty and at times negativity. (Apologise for the lack of PUNCTUATION - MY PC IS PLAYING UP).

No doubt I will get slaughtered by some but the message is clear - get you friends and family memebers who are lapsed ST holders back on board again - we have all put our money where our mouth is over the last year or so but I firmly believe that we are almost there with new owners but we just need the income that ST revenue will bring us to get us through the summer. Every ST bought is a step towards a positive future!!!!

Why has this not been thought of before

Another 3000 season tickets and #allisbarry........back to being the big team big signings'big wages

5-1....1902 blah blah blah

[greenginger]

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I've just had a look on JKB and the person who posted this is someone who appears to be relatively sensible and ITK - I would certainly expect him/her to know that the events he/she is predicting simply can't happen.

That smell I mentioned earlier just got a lot stronger.

I can't access kickback at the moment. Who is this relatively sensible poster ?

I take it there has been no announcements of Hector getting his dosh.

[ScottB]

So, a brief summary...

Hearts season ticket sales are significantly down, suggestion that any bought on Credit Cards may result in the club not getting the money up front from CC companies.

Hearts state they have a week to find £100k or a face a winding up order over PAYE. Dates do not appear to add up according to our in house finance types.

Hearts beg for fans to buy season tickets to help pay this bill, no statement saying 'please only pay cash so we will have the money in hand' as they trotted out with the shares and other fundraising last season, so if we assume most people won't rock up with cash, any season tickets sold this week are unlikely to contribute to paying this 'bill.'

Further rumours of new owners and the like emerge. Fans encouraged to pay up for season tickets...


So yeah, something definitely stinks. Either they have the money to pay this bill, and are using the threat to try and ring more cash out of the puddle drinkers, or, there is no bill, and it's all an attempt at getting as much money out the fans as they can, notably prior to what some have suggested could be their last 'big' wage day, an attempt to get as much cash as they can in to pay that in order to avoid a transfer ban? Or to pull the plug before having to pay up?


Surely the Rev would make a statement of some sort if they are lying?

[Peevemor]

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I've just had a look on JKB and the person who posted this is someone who appears to be relatively sensible and ITK - I would certainly expect him/her to know that the events he/she is predicting simply can't happen.

That smell I mentioned earlier just got a lot stronger.

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Someone being ITK can work against them if they are being fed bull****.

ie it's in the interests of the regime to feed false hope

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I can't access kickback at the moment. Who is this relatively sensible poster ?

I take it there has been no announcements of Hector getting his dosh.

PTBCAL does seem to have a line into Tynecastle, but I think he/she unwittingly simply regurgitates the party line. During the stadium redevelopment escapade for example, he often had valid information, but always insisted that the thing would be built (even though everyone could see that it was pie in the sky).

[The Falcon]

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I've just had a look on JKB and the person who posted this is someone who appears to be relatively sensible and ITK - I would certainly expect him/her to know that the events he/she is predicting simply can't happen.

That smell I mentioned earlier just got a lot stronger.

Whilst UBIG's assets are frozen (and they are the main shareholder) what about UKIO? Surely UKIO have a security over the stadium and assets for £15m and it would be remiss of them to negotiate a deal which would see that amount drastically reduced. Even if some Yam consortium offered £7m this would still be less than half the value of the security. And thats before the other creditors (UBIG, HMRC) get a mention.

And even at £15m it is still someway short of the £60m-£70m that Hearts have cost the Lith bank.

[Caversham Green]

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So, a brief summary...

Hearts season ticket sales are significantly down, suggestion that any bought on Credit Cards may result in the club not getting the money up front from CC companies.

Hearts state they have a week to find £100k or a face a winding up order over PAYE. Dates do not appear to add up according to our in house finance types.

Hearts beg for fans to buy season tickets to help pay this bill, no statement saying 'please only pay cash so we will have the money in hand' as they trotted out with the shares and other fundraising last season, so if we assume most people won't rock up with cash, any season tickets sold this week are unlikely to contribute to paying this 'bill.'

Further rumours of new owners and the like emerge. Fans encouraged to pay up for season tickets...


So yeah, something definitely stinks. Either they have the money to pay this bill, and are using the threat to try and ring more cash out of the puddle drinkers, or, there is no bill, and it's all an attempt at getting as much money out the fans as they can, notably prior to what some have suggested could be their last 'big' wage day, an attempt to get as much cash as they can in to pay that in order to avoid a transfer ban? Or to pull the plug before having to pay up?


Surely the Rev would make a statement of some sort if they are lying?

That's a decent summary of it all as far as I can see, but HMRC don't comment publicly on any taxpayer's affairs. They may put the squeeze on privately - I think they did when the share issue document made no mention of the tax liabilities - so HoMFC are undoubtedly playing a dangerous game, but these are clearly desperate times.

I'm now pretty much convinced that this tax bill (if it exists) was never going to produce a WUP unless HoMFC chose for it to do so. The next wages bill on the other hand....

[brog]

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That's a decent summary of it all as far as I can see, but HMRC don't comment publicly on any taxpayer's affairs. They may put the squeeze on privately - I think they did when the share issue document made no mention of the tax liabilities - so HoMFC are undoubtedly playing a dangerous game, but these are clearly desperate times.

I'm now pretty much convinced that this tax bill (if it exists) was never going to produce a WUP unless HoMFC chose for it to do so. The next wages bill on the other hand....

Cav, I look forward to all your posts with great enjoyment but I think your conspiracy theory here is up there with 9/11 & Princess Di. Surely not even the Yams would be stupid enough to publicise a disastrous state of affairs which didn't exist & which could only land them in deeper doo doo with HMRC? OK, it is Yams so I guess anything is possible. Seriously though, I think this would be a scam too far, I totally agree the info doesn't add up but I suspect its probably just inaccuracies re dates rather than a deliberate misrepresentation though of course they're milking it for all they're worth. Surprised there's not another share issue TBH. !!!

[clerriehibs]

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Cav, I look forward to all your posts with great enjoyment but I think your conspiracy theory here is up there with 9/11 & Princess Di. Surely not even the Yams would be stupid enough to publicise a disastrous state of affairs which didn't exist & which could only land them in deeper doo doo with HMRC? OK, it is Yams so I guess anything is possible. Seriously though, I think this would be a scam too far, I totally agree the info doesn't add up but I suspect its probably just inaccuracies re dates rather than a deliberate misrepresentation though of course they're milking it for all they're worth. Surprised there's not another share issue TBH. !!!

Frankly, I think CG's suppositions are far more likely to be near the mark than any possibility of homfc not being disingenuous.

[Caversham Green]

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Whilst UBIG's assets are frozen (and they are the main shareholder) what about UKIO? Surely UKIO have a security over the stadium and assets for £15m and it would be remiss of them to negotiate a deal which would see that amount drastically reduced. Even if some Yam consortium offered £7m this would still be less than half the value of the security. And thats before the other creditors (UBIG, HMRC) get a mention.

And even at £15m it is still someway short of the £60m-£70m that Hearts have cost the Lith bank.

That's why transfer of ownership can never happen the way the Yams are proposing. Taking the company names out of the situation, Company A owns the club and is owed £10m, but it's assets have been frozen so it can't sell the club to anyone. On top of that, Company A has no directors so there would be no-one to authorise sale in any case. As a side point here, Company A also had no-one to authorise a vote at the AGM, so the re-election of Vladslad was probably unlawful.

However, even if Company A was able to sell the club and accept a write off of that £10m loan, Company B (which now has no connection to Company A) is still owed £15m and holds security over the club's assets. Any sale by Company A would have absolutely no effect on those circumstances. For as long as the club continues without admitting insolvency, Company B has no reason to accept any sort of deal in relation to that debt. The fact that Company B is in administration means that the administrator is duty-bound to refuse such a deal.

In short, it's virtually impossible for anyone to buy a debt-free HoMFC.

[matty_f]

Heard some interesting news earlier from a mate who, having bought a significant (in the thousands of pounds) amount of shares, has asked for his money back as no shares have been forthcoming.

The reply he got (I'll see if I can persuade him to let me scan and post it here, but I can't see him doing that) basically said that they are not in a position to cancel the transaction or return the money, nor are they able to guarantee that the shares will ever (yes, ever) be issued.

Needless to say he is livid about this and is taking legal advice on what to do next.

Still, #allisbarry eh?

[Caversham Green]

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Cav, I look forward to all your posts with great enjoyment but I think your conspiracy theory here is up there with 9/11 & Princess Di. Surely not even the Yams would be stupid enough to publicise a disastrous state of affairs which didn't exist & which could only land them in deeper doo doo with HMRC? OK, it is Yams so I guess anything is possible. Seriously though, I think this would be a scam too far, I totally agree the info doesn't add up but I suspect its probably just inaccuracies re dates rather than a deliberate misrepresentation though of course they're milking it for all they're worth. Surprised there's not another share issue TBH. !!!

It's not as much of a risk as you might think. They're already on a hiding to nothing and HMRC can't do anything more than they've already done if the tax is finally paid up before the due date. It's worth noting that we're talking about people who are already heavily implicated in what looks like very serious financial fraud - their ringleader is allegedly being protected by a Chechen warlord ffs - and they are now in dire straits. Misleading the Gorgie public to squeeze a few more quid out of them is small potatoes.

[clerriehibs]

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It's not as much of a risk as you might think. They're already on a hiding to nothing and HMRC can't do anything more than they've already done if the tax is finally paid up before the due date. It's worth noting that we're talking about people who are already heavily implicated in what looks like very serious financial fraud - their ringleader is allegedly being protected by a Chechen warlord ffs - and they are now in dire straits. Misleading the Gorgie public to squeeze a few more quid out of them is small potatoes.

Small sweet potatoes?

[Ozyhibby]

No big announcement that the bill has been paid today, so they are either going right to the wire or bluffing big time.

[fat freddy]

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Heard some interesting news earlier from a mate who, having bought a significant (in the thousands of pounds) amount of shares, has asked for his money back as no shares have been forthcoming.

The reply he got (I'll see if I can persuade him to let me scan and post it here, but I can't see him doing that) basically said that they are not in a position to cancel the transaction or return the money, nor are they able to guarantee that the shares will ever (yes, ever) be issued.

Needless to say he is livid about this and is taking legal advice on what to do next.

Still, #allisbarry eh?

surely some mistake...did barry not tell us the share certificates would be sent out in april?....your jambo friend has probably just mislaid them somewhere..

[FranckSuzy]

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Small sweet potatoes?

[robinp]

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Heard some interesting news earlier from a mate who, having bought a significant (in the thousands of pounds) amount of shares, has asked for his money back as no shares have been forthcoming.

The reply he got (I'll see if I can persuade him to let me scan and post it here, but I can't see him doing that) basically said that they are not in a position to cancel the transaction or return the money, nor are they able to guarantee that the shares will ever (yes, ever) be issued.

Needless to say he is livid about this and is taking legal advice on what to do next.

Still, #allisbarry eh?

Can he not just claim back the money on his credit card, or did he not pay £1 by credit card.

[Ozyhibby]

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That's why transfer of ownership can never happen the way the Yams are proposing. Taking the company names out of the situation, Company A owns the club and is owed £10m, but it's assets have been frozen so it can't sell the club to anyone. On top of that, Company A has no directors so there would be no-one to authorise sale in any case. As a side point here, Company A also had no-one to authorise a vote at the AGM, so the re-election of Vladslad was probably unlawful.

However, even if Company A was able to sell the club and accept a write off of that £10m loan, Company B (which now has no connection to Company A) is still owed £15m and holds security over the club's assets. Any sale by Company A would have absolutely no effect on those circumstances. For as long as the club continues without admitting insolvency, Company B has no reason to accept any sort of deal in relation to that debt. The fact that Company B is in administration means that the administrator is duty-bound to refuse such a deal.

In short, it's virtually impossible for anyone to buy a debt-free HoMFC.

Every time a little bit of doubt creeps into my head that they are not totally Donald ducked you seem to put my mind at ease. Keep up the good work.

[The Green Goblin]

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Heard some interesting news earlier from a mate who, having bought a significant (in the thousands of pounds) amount of shares, has asked for his money back as no shares have been forthcoming.

The reply he got (I'll see if I can persuade him to let me scan and post it here, but I can't see him doing that) basically said that they are not in a position to cancel the transaction or return the money, nor are they able to guarantee that the shares will ever (yes, ever) be issued.

Needless to say he is livid about this and is taking legal advice on what to do next.

Still, #allisbarry eh?

Is that the same rocket on your facebook who was giving us the old "ah yes, here comes the accountant" and "you`re all talking pish" and "even if Hearts are playing in the Meadows next season I`ll still be laughing at Hibs"?

[Caversham Green]

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Heard some interesting news earlier from a mate who, having bought a significant (in the thousands of pounds) amount of shares, has asked for his money back as no shares have been forthcoming.

The reply he got (I'll see if I can persuade him to let me scan and post it here, but I can't see him doing that) basically said that they are not in a position to cancel the transaction or return the money, nor are they able to guarantee that the shares will ever (yes, ever) be issued.

Needless to say he is livid about this and is taking legal advice on what to do next.

Still, #allisbarry eh?

They've already broken the law in respect of that share issue - those shares should have been registered no later than February.

Quite honestly, and taking off my green-tinted glasses, the behaviour of the HoMFC board over the last year absolutely disgusts me. They've cynically exploited the loyalty of the fans at every opportunity and are still doing so even now. They have destroyed a once respected Scottish football club and are continuing to milk it for all they can get before tossing it in the gutter. While some Hearts fans deserve no better, many do not. I hope your mate takes them to the cleaners - he has nothing left to lose.

[Andy74]

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Heard some interesting news earlier from a mate who, having bought a significant (in the thousands of pounds) amount of shares, has asked for his money back as no shares have been forthcoming.

The reply he got (I'll see if I can persuade him to let me scan and post it here, but I can't see him doing that) basically said that they are not in a position to cancel the transaction or return the money, nor are they able to guarantee that the shares will ever (yes, ever) be issued.

Needless to say he is livid about this and is taking legal advice on what to do next.

Still, #allisbarry eh?

Interesting. A few senior guys at my work that sunk a fair bit of cash in that have also made recent requests to be refunded. They've been promised that its being looked into.