Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[PatHead]

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You should have got a pic of that. :-)

Did but don't know how to attach it. Too old for these tekky things. Quite a few other guys were taking pictures though............

[WestEndHibee]

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On page 495 of a Hearts thread.

I normally don't agree with the "obsessed" comments on both sides but in this case it's completely different.

We have 495 pages on the financial demise of our biggest rivals who most likely won't be in the SPL for long. This has big implications for all involved and is a subject that deserves to be discussed about.

Meanwhile, as their beloved club sinks down further and further after decades of financial doping and neglect, they are more concerned with celebrating last years cup win and devote more efforts to rubbing it in our face than they do to finding out what has gone so wrong in the workings of their club. Where are the protests? Where are the rallies? Where is the concern for their team?

It's actually worrying to me that they just seem to brush it off as if everything will be ok. They are up the creek, they have no paddle, their boat is sinking and they haven't even realised yet.

[Eyrie]

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Don't think that it will be Tiny that is sold - more likely that the yams debt(s) will be sold to some third party IMHO, with Tiny offered as the security on the loan.

The problem is that the Yams will struggle to make the interest payments on that debt, let alone actually repay the £15m loan. Why would anyone in this country be willing to take that risk when they can let the Lithuanians deal with it in a professional and unemotional manner, then pick up what's left for relative pennies?

[hibs0666]

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The problem is that the Yams will struggle to make the interest payments on that debt, let alone actually repay the £15m loan. Why would anyone in this country be willing to take that risk when they can let the Lithuanians deal with it in a professional and unemotional manner, then pick up what's left for relative pennies?

It will be easier for the administrator to realise the money by selling the debt rather than the assets. If the debt is sold at, say, £3-4 million then the company buying the debt will still make a healthy profit in the worst case when the yams default on the repayments, get turfed oot of Tiny and the land is re-developed.

However, I reckon it will take ages for the administrators to be in a position to sell the debt on given the legal and ownership complexities.

[ScottB]

I really think that given the mess they are in, the potential for years of criminal investigations etc. that I really can't see anyone getting to buy the current club, even if they are liquidated, as presumably the Lithuanian authorities will want to pick through the carcass?

So at best it'll be a Hearts newco, maybe lucky enough to buy the ground. Maybe not.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I've just got a horrible feeling that rather than the SPL consulting their lawyers about relegating the cheats they are actually trying to figure out how they can keep them in the SPL. They'll be speaking to their lawyers to see what happens if another club/s challenge the decision.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Back on track here, definitive questions regarding Hearts ownership by the SPL need to be answered tomorrow. We all know there is a concerted effort from the YAMS trying to convince everybody that they are a stand alone self sustaining company. Keeping it as simple as possible, the definitive question that the SPL should ask tomorrow is this:

Do HMFC PLC (or whoever they call themselves) have the authority to sell the Club, or does it's recognised Parent Company (79% shares) have that authority?

IMO there can be only one answer, UBIG are the parent company, they're ****ed and so are HMFC. Relegation is the only outcome tomorrow, unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as another bowel collapse from the SPL.

GGTTH

Judging by the media reports over the last day or so, that effort has failed. The debate now seems to centre on the technical point of whether this declaration to the Lithuanian Govt by UBIG "counts" as an insolvency event, or if there needs to be some form of court action first. An option for the SPL would be to exercise the Board's discretionary powers and say that a ruling on the points deduction will wait for that court action to happen (or not as the case may be). They've already done that to a limited extent by deferring their decision from last Friday to tomorrow.

[greengnome]

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I've just got a horrible feeling that rather than the SPL consulting their lawyers about relegating the cheats they are actually trying to figure out how they can keep them in the SPL. They'll be speaking to their lawyers to see what happens if another club/s challenge the decision.

My feelings exactly... If this was to happen, it would be a sad day for Scottish football......! :pfgwa

[blackpoolhibs]

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I've just got a horrible feeling that rather than the SPL consulting their lawyers about relegating the cheats they are actually trying to figure out how they can keep them in the SPL. They'll be speaking to their lawyers to see what happens if another club/s challenge the decision.

I cant see it myself, for no other reason than they wont be able to continue without money, and they cant pay their debts.

Also there will be an army of sevco fans just waiting in the wings to see justice done too.

[Kato]

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Save Hearts In Trouble

It's OK mate. I noticed that one.

[SHODAN]

Rangers will go mental if Hearts aren't relegated.

For the one and only time in my life, I'm glad they exist.

[Onion]

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I normally don't agree with the "obsessed" comments on both sides but in this case it's completely different.

We have 495 pages on the financial demise of our biggest rivals who most likely won't be in the SPL for long. This has big implications for all involved and is a subject that deserves to be discussed about.

Meanwhile, as their beloved club sinks down further and further after decades of financial doping and neglect, they are more concerned with celebrating last years cup win and devote more efforts to rubbing it in our face than they do to finding out what has gone so wrong in the workings of their club. Where are the protests? Where are the rallies? Where is the concern for their team?

It's actually worrying to me that they just seem to brush it off as if everything will be ok. They are up the creek, they have no paddle, their boat is sinking and they haven't even realised yet.

They can do nothing about their club's demise - they are completely powerless. But they can celebrate last year's CF result to make themselves feel better.

IMHO the PROBLEM they have is that they've assumed our reaction to 5-1 would be the same as theirs would have been. Firstly that we'd desert the club in droves (didn't happen), that it would kill Hibs off (didn't happen) and that we'd be having nightmares about last May for ever and a day (not happening). So they feel obliged to TRY rub it in at every opportunity and TRY to get the reaction from Hibs fans that THEY EXPECTED. Much easier for them to concentrate on that than face the reality of their own demise.

Reality is that WE have moved on from May 2012, faced up to 5-1, stuck together, grown stronger and more determined and have shown Hibs Class throughout. It's why we are proud to be Hibbies and leave the Yams to wallow in their own bitter, self importance

[hibeedonald]

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I normally don't agree with the "obsessed" comments on both sides but in this case it's completely different.

We have 495 pages on the financial demise of our biggest rivals who most likely won't be in the SPL for long. This has big implications for all involved and is a subject that deserves to be discussed about.

Meanwhile, as their beloved club sinks down further and further after decades of financial doping and neglect, they are more concerned with celebrating last years cup win and devote more efforts to rubbing it in our face than they do to finding out what has gone so wrong in the workings of their club. Where are the protests? Where are the rallies? Where is the concern for their team?

It's actually worrying to me that they just seem to brush it off as if everything will be ok. They are up the creek, they have no paddle, their boat is sinking and they haven't even realised yet.

Nah I don't think we're obsessed with them at all, but nor are they obsessed with us, it's just normal football rivalry.

[Hibee87]

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Judging by the media reports over the last day or so, that effort has failed. The debate now seems to centre on the technical point of whether this declaration to the Lithuanian Govt by UBIG "counts" as an insolvency event, or if there needs to be some form of court action first. An option for the SPL would be to exercise the Board's discretionary powers and say that a ruling on the points deduction will wait for that court action to happen (or not as the case may be). They've already done that to a limited extent by deferring their decision from last Friday to tomorrow.

And the spl have stated they would back track any decision to this season, so if the 'official' insolvency event is in 2 days, 2 weeks etc the spl will relegate hearts.....I think what you've said is pretty much spot on to what will be said/happen. I think the spl MUST be saying to hearts, 'look its only a matter of when the insolvency event is official in Lithuania and we'll be then deducting the points, therefore take the hit now and get on with it (till close season and the UKIO stuff kicks off proper, by then it wont be a SPL problem)

[jdships]

From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

[Treadstone]

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I've just got a horrible feeling that rather than the SPL consulting their lawyers about relegating the cheats they are actually trying to figure out how they can keep them in the SPL. They'll be speaking to their lawyers to see what happens if another club/s challenge the decision.

There probably is enough wiggle room for the SPL to perform a cop out but its not in their interests to do that just because they can. If they do and HoMFC go into admin in say 4 or 5 months it makes their positions untenable. The last thing the SPL wants is a club going bust mid season especailly one that they had the chance to punish.

[pontius pilate]

I've heard a points deduction for next season to be the yams punishment I could however be v v wrong lets hope so

[EdinMike]

My Uncle wrote a poem this morning, thought it was fitting to share.


They're gone, not here, forgotten
The maroon brigade now cry.
The city is now Hibernian
The team that would not die.

[Mikey]

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From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

Caversham has been banging on about that since their accounts came out. They'll have got it from here.

The biggest single mistake that Hearts have made in the last month is publishing their accounts. It's got all the evidence needed to finish them off.

[stokesmessiah]

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From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

Not convinced you need to be a money man to answer that but I will give it a go....they won't and hearts are ****ed.

[Treadstone]

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Caversham has been banging on about that since their accounts came out. They'll have got it from here.
.

Probably had the gonads to call it an 'exclusive'.

[Hibee87]

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From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

I may be worng here, but there is no 'may' about it Hearts HAVE to pay them 15 million within 2 years plus the interest in thebest case scenario for them, wors case scenario is the administrator of the bank calls in th debt NOW - then there proper Donald ducked, add to the fact UBIG owe UKIO 9 mill (I think that's the amount) and have secured tyncastle as security of this debt, with UBIG being declared insolvent its surly only a matter of time before this is called in. and they also owe 10 mill (again I think) to UBIG, so when the admins swoop in their they will be looking for the money.........im no financial expert by any means, but I fail to see how hearts, in their present form, can exsist after all of this. and with no stadium (potentially) the sevco route is also looking unlikely. what I don't understand is why hearts are continuing to fight this losing battle, surley it would be of their own interest to call in the admins themselves and see what they can salvage from this mess......the alternative is have some Lithuanian mob potentially bulldoze in and tear the whole place down forever

[The Falcon]

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I cant see it myself, for no other reason than they wont be able to continue without money, and they cant pay their debts.

Also there will be an army of sevco fans just waiting in the wings to see justice done too.

Neither can I and especially as they are unlikely to get any line of credit, anywhere. Their last accounts had player sales, glamour european ties and a cup final and they still manged to post losses of £1.65m despite receiving £2.9m in "compensation income" from Kaunas. I would expect the 2012-2013 accounts to display similar methods of robbing the Lith taxpayer but next season such avenues will be closed.

I would expect that any money already received for season tickets for next season is already away, if not spent it will have weaseled its way to Vlad via Serge.

[connerg]

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They can do nothing about their club's demise - they are completely powerless. But they can celebrate last year's CF result to make themselves feel better.

IMHO the PROBLEM they have is that they've assumed our reaction to 5-1 would be the same as theirs would have been. Firstly that we'd desert the club in droves (didn't happen), that it would kill Hibs off (didn't happen) and that we'd be having nightmares about last May for ever and a day (not happening). So they feel obliged to TRY rub it in at every opportunity and TRY to get the reaction from Hibs fans that THEY EXPECTED. Much easier for them to concentrate on that than face the reality of their own demise.

Reality is that WE have moved on from May 2012, faced up to 5-1, stuck together, grown stronger and more determined and have shown Hibs Class throughout. It's why we are proud to be Hibbies and leave the Yams to wallow in their own bitter, self importance

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Treadstone]

In the next set of accounts what would the 'Share' money received come under ? I suggest 'Payment Launch Under Management Structure'.

[Jack Hackett]

Can anyone point me to the website or the post on .net which calculated the Net Worth of Hibs and hertz

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

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There probably is enough wiggle room for the SPL to perform a cop out but its not in their interests to do that just because they can. If they do and HoMFC go into admin in say 4 or 5 months it makes their positions untenable. The last thing the SPL wants is a club going bust mid season especailly one that they had the chance to punish.

Hearts have been heading for financial trouble for months though, arguably for a couple of years and the SPL did sweet **** all about it!

The SPL should have hammered them ages ago and brought them into line but they never had the balls. They should have told Hearts to reduce their debt and pay their taxes due but left them to their own devices, outspending way beyond their means.

The SPL should relegate them tomorrow if football is paramount but last May and their handling of the Rangers affair have already proven that the SPL are already incompetent and as culpable in this mess as those morons across the road.

The only way I'll have total faith and trust in the SPL board now is if they do the right thing and condem Hearts to the 1st division and openly state that financial cheating will no longer be tolerated by any club.

Not holding my breath though.........!

[MacBean]

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From Herald this morning

" Hearts may have to repay a £15 million debt to Vladimir Romanov's collapsed bank in full within two and a half years.
But as it stands, Hearts would only have until December 2015 to come up with that amount plus £150,000 every three months in interest service charges. "

If this supposition is correct what prospective buyer will be in a position to put up that sort of cash before 2015 plus servicing the debt ?
I am not a money man ' so any thoughts guys ?

Hearts say they are servicing their debt by paying interest. How much interest are they paying I hear you say? Well that would be £20k a month (or £60k a quarter).

But I'm sure that they are accruing £150k a quarter in interest? Yes that's true. They are paying £60k to be charged £150k, so a net increase in debt of £90k a quarter...

[Hibs07p]

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In the next set of accounts what would the 'Share' money received come under ? I suggest 'Payment Launch Under Management Structure'.

PLUMS

[lord bunberry]

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Hearts say they are servicing their debt by paying interest. How much interest are they paying I hear you say? Well that would be £20k a month (or £60k a quarter).

But I'm sure that they are accruing £150k a quarter in interest? Yes that's true. They are paying £60k to be charged £150k, so a net increase in debt of £90k a quarter...

But they're self sufficient don't you know