Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[JeMeSouviens]

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I reckon the entry on the list of insovent companies falls under (g), (h) and (i). The one dubious factor is that the SPL board have discretion where it's a group company rather than the owner and operator, which in Rangers/Sevco's case thay claimed to mean the club company rather than the parent company. Wrongly IMHO.



I think they'll be alright - it's not HoMFC that's insolvent and it wasn't in the auditors' remit to investigate UBIG's solvency in any depth. I do feel they should have been more careful with their report in that respect though.

According to the SPL rules:

Group Undertaking means a “group undertaking” as defined in
section 1161(5) of the Companies Act 2006;

According to the Companies Act 2006:

(5)In the Companies Acts “group undertaking”, in relation to an undertaking, means an undertaking which is—
(a)a parent undertaking or subsidiary undertaking of that undertaking, or
(b)a subsidiary undertaking of any parent undertaking of that undertaking.

and ...

(2)An undertaking is a parent undertaking in relation to another undertaking, a subsidiary undertaking, if—
(a)it holds a majority of the voting rights in the undertaking, or
(b)it is a member of the undertaking and has the right to appoint or remove a majority of its board of directors, or
(c)it has the right to exercise a dominant influence over the undertaking—
(i)by virtue of provisions contained in the undertaking's articles, or
(ii)by virtue of a control contract, or
(d)it is a member of the undertaking and controls alone, pursuant to an agreement with other shareholders or members, a majority of the voting rights in the undertaking.

Bit in bold doesn't leave any wriggle room I don't think?

[jonty]

looneyTunes_original_daffyduck.jpg
The yams version of foot in mouth

And the good old...

DaffyDuck-Fap.gif

[The Sea-gull]

Not much at all about this on KickBack but then there never is when it comes to this sort of thing. Is it a case of "nothing to see here move along" or are they just too scared to post anything as by not posting it and talking about it somehow means that it might not happen. Probably with their grip on reality they feel they can keep it all under wraps from the media, the SPL and everyone else by not discussing it.

Or do the admin folk there cut off any posts of this nature before they hit the board?

[HFC 0-7]

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. The SPL needs to get Hearts the **** out of the league before the summer to save a mountain of hassle. We all know they're going to go tits up over the summer so hit them with the 18 points and make them the SFL's problem.

If they do that then Dundee stay up and Partick join them in the SPL. If they don't then Dundee will go down and we'll have a Morton team filling Hearts' void that's nowhere near ready for the SPL taking a tanking every weekend.

Get them out now.

Do you know if Dundee have been relegated at this point? Ie, have they already handed their spl membership over? Would be a farce if hearts wriggle out of relegation should they get a points deduction.

[Billy Whizz]

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Not much at all about this on KickBack but then there never is when it comes to this sort of thing. Is it a case of "nothing to see here move along" or are they just too scared to post anything as by not posting it and talking about it somehow means that it might not happen. Probably with their grip on reality they feel they can keep it all under wraps from the media, the SPL and everyone else by not discussing it.

Or do the admin folk there cut off any posts of this nature before they hit the board?

You mean like in North Korea?

[Gus Fring]

Just had a wee peak over the road. They claim the SPL has clarified that the rules we're quoting were only made up to prevent a loophole where the club is owned by a holding company and that because Hearts are owned by a bigger group they rule doesn't apply to them.

Straws. They're clutching at them.

[Caversham Green]

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The "next 12 months" in question are almost up.

It's always 12 months from the date of signing the audit report rather than the year end so they're still culpable in that respect.

[Heisenberg]

So Hearts need to be deducted the points before monday? Cant see it happening, would make a lot of people a wee bit wealthier if it did though

[Saorsa]

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This!

time for them tae be expunged form the list of SPL teams

[Peevemor]

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It's always 12 months from the date of signing the audit report rather than the year end so they're still culpable in that respect.

OK - didnae ken that.

[I'm_cabbaged]

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Not much at all about this on KickBack but then there never is when it comes to this sort of thing. Is it a case of "nothing to see here move along" or are they just too scared to post anything as by not posting it and talking about it somehow means that it might not happen. Probably with their grip on reality they feel they can keep it all under wraps from the media, the SPL and everyone else by not discussing it.

Or do the admin folk there cut off any posts of this nature before they hit the board?

they seem to think it could be a good thing and they'll be sold at a knock down price......

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

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Do you know if Dundee have been relegated at this point? Ie, have they already handed their spl membership over? Would be a farce if hearts wriggle out of relegation should they get a points deduction.

They can't hand over their SPL membership as they still have an SPL game to play...us

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Thought HMRC had a winding up order against them just before Christmas. Should the points not have been deducted then?

No. HMRC have petitioned (more than once) for a winding up order. They withdrew the petition(s) when Hearts paid up / satisfied them.

...

I suspect this is going to end up in court. There is no way the SPL is going to get their arse in gear before Saturday. As far as the SPL are concerned Dundee will be relegated on Saturday. It's up to Dundee to kick up a fuss by refusing to hand over their share in the SPL company until the Hearts situation is clarified to their satisfaction.

[SteveHFC]

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So Hearts need to be deducted the points before monday? Cant see it happening, would make a lot of people a wee bit wealthier if it did though

[Andy74]

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They can't hand over their SPL membership as they still have an SPL game to play...us

Could be a helluva party that if things escalate tomorrow!

[Mikey]

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They can't hand over their SPL membership as they still have an SPL game to play...us

Do you think if we wasted enough time taking free kicks and throw ins we could get the ref to add on 4 days stoppage time?

[EdinMike]

I just saw someone on Facebook post how it's 15 years to the day since they won the Scottish Cup...

I said to him "Jeez you're deflecting the real issues today then ?!"

Jambo: "What issues ?!"

Wahahaha

[HFC 0-7]

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They can't hand over their SPL membership as they still have an SPL game to play...us

We should postpone it then, give the spl longer to deduct points!

[Caversham Green]

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According to the SPL rules:



According to the Companies Act 2006:



and ...



Bit in bold doesn't leave any wriggle room I don't think?

I agree but during the Rangers fiasco it was constantly argued that club and company were two separate entities and that the company was the owner and operator. As far as company law and common sense are concerned the company is the club and in HoMFC's case UBIG were the operator - that's where there might be wriggle room if they feel that way inclined.

My view is that HoMFC have benefitted massively from being owned by UBIG and have contributed to UBIG's downfall so they are more deserving of the penalty than any other club in Scotland, including Rangers.

[Green Man]

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We should postpone it then, give the spl longer to deduct points!

Let's get down on Saturday morning and waterlog the pitch

[Waxy]

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We should postpone it then, give the spl longer to deduct points!

Pity it wasn't a night match.Sabotage our own floodlights? not us eh.

[hibs0666]

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No. HMRC have petitioned (more than once) for a winding up order. They withdrew the petition(s) when Hearts paid up / satisfied them.

...

I suspect this is going to end up in court. There is no way the SPL is going to get their arse in gear before Saturday. As far as the SPL are concerned Dundee will be relegated on Saturday. It's up to Dundee to kick up a fuss by refusing to hand over their share in the SPL company until the Hearts situation is clarified to their satisfaction.

It might take a wee while to sort out in the courts, but there can be no doubt that both the Ukio Bankas and UBIG insolvency events occurred during this season.

[Up The Bracket]

Would love them to go to admin on the 19th of May

[green.and.white]

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Would love them to go to admin on the 19th of May

That would be way too good

[kdhibees1]

[givescotlandfreedom]

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Would love them to go to admin on the 19th of May

[down-the-slope]

Having shared my detective work on PM board...thought this one was only fair to share wider....


I have now cracked the Lith Government Bankruptcy site....

I think I may have a small libation now ..... read it and weep (or send to SPL ) they are No1 in something this season

Company announcement of the inability to fulfill its obligations or neketinimą

Enterprise Bankruptcy Management Department under the Ministry of Economy, Director of Order No. V-22 on the publication of the company's default on Enterprise Bankruptcy Management Department under the Ministry of Economy website Approval of the Rules, 2012. March 6. (Official Gazette, 2012, Nr. 31-1482).

Sample Application Form

Companies unable to meet their obligations, or not thinking of a list of Seq.No. Code Name Office address Manager (owner) manager (owner) contact details Publication date 1 135201099 Joint-stock company "An investment bank group Kaunas year. weeks. Kaunas year. K. Donelaicio g.60 Rita Matuziene mob. 8 687 77275, e.[email protected] 2013-05-16 2 133523653 Joint-stock company "Kaunas Supply Kaunas year. weeks. Kaunas year. Palemono g. 171 of the Rita Metlovaitė, tel. (8 37) 373550, e.[email protected] 2013-05-15

[Saorsa]

[robinp]

Just posted this on the PM forum:

This is extracts from the english version of the Lithuanian Governments Bankruptcy and Insolvency website:
I think we are reading the same document and I quote.......splurrrrrt:

5.2. Grounds for Filing with the Court of a Petition for Initiation of Enterprise Bankruptcy Proceedings Persons mentioned at point 5.1 may file with the court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings if at least one of the following conditions is present:
1) the enterprise fails to pay salaries and other employment-related payments in due time;
2) the enterprise fails, in due time, to pay for the goods received, work performed or services provided, defaults on the repayment of credits and fails to discharge other property obligations assumed under transactions;
3) the enterprise fails to pay, in due time, taxes and other compulsory contributions prescribed by law and/or the awarded amounts;
4) the enterprise has publicly announced or notified the creditor (creditors) in any other manner of its inability or lack of intent to discharge its obligations (publication of such information on the website (www.bankrotodep.lt) of the Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management under the Ministry of Economy is also considered as public announcement);

Then:
The head or owner (owners) of an enterprise must file with a court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings if:• the enterprise is and/or will be unable to settle with the creditor(s), and the latter has (have) not filed with a court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings;
• the enterprise has publicly announced or otherwise notified a creditor(s) that it cannot or does not intend to discharge its obligations.

[littleplum]

Jane Lewis ‏@JaneLewisSport 2m Hearts Director Sergejus Fedotovas confirms to BBC Scotland that clubs parent company UBIG have asked to be declared insolvent. More soon