Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[jonty]

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Here's a scenario that may play out if HMFC hang on .....

HMFC avoid admin and relegation this season - but are so weakened (by admin and 14 points) next season that they get relegated to Div 1. In the meantime The Rangers walk thru' Div 2 next season and are promoted to Div 1. So the season after next sees either Big Hun or Little Hun battle out for promotion with one of them failing (assuming there isn't a fix by then to promote 2 teams).

Play-offs will have been introduced by then. of course you're also assuming that sevco5088 haven't gone through yet another administration/liquidation before then. And that hahahahearts haven't been relegated to sfl2

[JeMeSouviens]

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BTW, some folk here have incorrectly stated that HMFC would be deducted a minimum of 15 points next season. That isn't correct.

Rule A6.8 states that the minimum deduction is 10 points. As HMFC already have more than 30 points this season, the deduction would be one third (rounded up) of their final total this season. As it stands that would be 14 (40/3 = 13.333).

Oops that was me, it was proposed as 15 points I think, they must've changed it in smoke filled rooms.

[proud_and_green]

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Slightly off topic but my mate is a car salesman with Volkswagen on Gorgie Road. They store about 10 to 15 cars in the car park at the main stand at Tynecastle, something they have done for years with the club, they have some sort of agreement. Anyway they got told yesterday to have all the cars moved from the car park as soon as possible. Bit strange considering they have been there for about 4 years.

That is bang on topic. Quite often people buy goods early and have them stored on the premises of the wholesaler, this can be a bit dodgy because if the wholesaler goes bust and is in a formal insolvency procedure - those goods can be deemed to be part of the estate of the insolvent wholesaler - it becomes very complicated and can take ages to get your goods back. Western storing their stock at Tynecastle would be subject to the same difficulties if Hearts were to go under.

Hearts are preparing the ground for admin and have, to be fair to them, informed Western VW.

It is iminent!

[CropleyWasGod]

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That is bang on topic. Quite often people buy goods early and have them stored on the premises of the wholesaler, this can be a bit dodgy because if the wholesaler goes bust and is in a formal insolvency procedure - those goods can be deemed to be part of the estate of the insolvent wholesaler - it becomes very complicated and can take ages to get your goods back. Western storing their stock at Tynecastle would be subject to the same difficulties if Hearts were to go under.

Hearts are preparing the ground for admin and have, to be fair to them, informed Western VW.

It is iminent!

Or, another possibility,

It's Western who have decided to remove the cars, to protect themselves.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Going to repost this so someone can answer it as I don't understand this:
Who's to say even if they manage to get to the end of the season, without going into admin then they go into it, they will make it out of admin? Why is this likely
Can this not lead to liquidation?

Oh yes, indeedy.

I think they are taking the approach that since their problems are so large there's no point worrying about them and they might as well focus on something they think they can control, getting to the end of the season.

However, whether they get to the end of the season is fairly irrelevant in the long term. They still need a combination of a buyer with a load of cash and a very softly-softly approach from the Lithuanian liquidators. The less they get of one, the more they need of the other and at the moment, they don't seem to stand much chance of getting either.

What a wee shame.

[s.a.m]

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That is bang on topic. Quite often people buy goods early and have them stored on the premises of the wholesaler, this can be a bit dodgy because if the wholesaler goes bust and is in a formal insolvency procedure - those goods can be deemed to be part of the estate of the insolvent wholesaler - it becomes very complicated and can take ages to get your goods back. Western storing their stock at Tynecastle would be subject to the same difficulties if Hearts were to go under.

Hearts are preparing the ground for admin and have, to be fair to them, informed Western VW.

It is iminent!

I've always felt (for no good reason...) that something like this is how Jambogeddon would become apparent; not with dramatic announcements or gestures.



Melodrama works for me as well, though.

[Caversham Green]

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Going to repost this so someone can answer it as I don't understand this:
Who's to say even if they manage to get to the end of the season, without going into admin then they go into it, they will make it out of admin? Why is this likely
Can this not lead to liquidation?

Yes it could and almost certainly would unless things have changed.

The way I understand things, the vast majority of their debt is owed to UBIG/Ukio and is secured on the assets. That means that in administration those debts would be disregarded in a vote for a CVA - the companies can decide whether or not to call in the debts by foreclosing without administration taking place. There are no assets left to distribute among the remaining creditors and in any case they are likely to be dominated by HMRC who have a policy of not agreeing to CVAs, so a CVA is unlikely to be approved. I think administration would only work if the purpose was to find a new buyer with enough money to satisfy the unsecured creditors and if such a buyer was about they could do it all without administration.

They are entirely at the mercy of their creditors in Lithuania IMO, but they still have the UK problem of Companies House chasing audited accounts - that won't go away either.

[Alex Trager]

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Oh yes, indeedy.

I think they are taking the approach that since their problems are so large there's no point worrying about them and they might as well focus on something they think they can control, getting to the end of the season.

However, whether they get to the end of the season is fairly irrelevant in the long term. They still need a combination of a buyer with a load of cash and a very softly-softly approach from the Lithuanian liquidators. The less they get of one, the more they need of the other and at the moment, they don't seem to stand much chance of getting either.

What a wee shame.

So as much as they(Goldy Locks) like to think all is dandy it is not. Admin is still a big bad thing(mummy bear). That can lead to an even bigger bad thing(daddy bear)

[proud_and_green]

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Or, another possibility,

It's Western who have decided to remove the cars, to protect themselves.

very true and probably most likely. Hearts doing this would alert businesses to their impending admin/liquidation which in turn would start the ball rolling out of their control, it could also be judged to be acknowledgement that they are trading while insolvent.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So as much as they(little red riding hood) like to think all is dandy it is not. Admin is still a big bad thing(mummy bear). That can lead to an even bigger bad thing(daddy bear£

Mixing your fairy stories a bit, no?

[Alex Trager]

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Mixing your fairy stories a bit, no?

Don't think so who sat at the table. Aww it was goldy locks *rapidly changes the original*

[Waxy]

Whos been banking in myyyyyy bank

[matty_f]

There definitely seems to be a feeling that the threat of something happening is gathering momentum and (for the Yams) an uncomfortable pace.

Personally, I wish it would hurry the **** up.

[jodjam]

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Don't think so who sat at the table. Aww it was goldy locks *rapidly changes the original*

So did this whole sordid tale start with fatty foulkes leaning over Romanov's casket and waking him with a kiss

[Alex Trager]

Right guys. I am currently arguing with a paranoid him about the end of the season. After listen to what Mikey had to say about the end of season will someone tell me the answer to these two texts as they don't seem to understand the rules and I'm
Wondering, again, when it ends.


This is the first of two texts
?? Relegation and promotion happens in may then? Nope. June. We will find out soon, check spl website for league placings they will reset it June, or have done. Don't back the spl up with a rule that doesn't show when the season officially ends x

And the second
No? Admin does. Season doesn't end when the final whistle goes. And Hun paranoia? Your at the wind up pal, spl give them enough rope and they will hang themselfs, just another bit of rope x

[matty_f]

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Whos been banking in myyyyyy bank

[Alex Trager]

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Whos been banking in myyyyyy bank

Not me * quivering little yam that was so smug most of their, soon to come to an end, life

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So did this whole sordid tale start with fatty foulkes leaning over Romanov's casket and waking him with a kiss

Aw I dono. I am not of child spawning age ATM so haven't heard these stories for a lonnng time 17-18 years.

[s.a.m]

If we're doing children's literature, I like this contribution to the Hearts dilemma from the fish in 'The Cat in the Hat':

And this mess is so big
And so deep and so tall
We can not pick it up
There is no way at all!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Right guys. I am currently arguing with a paranoid him about the end of the season. After listen to what Mikey had to say about the end of season will someone tell me the answer to these two texts as they don't seem to understand the rules and I'm
Wondering, again, when it ends.


This is the first of two texts
?? Relegation and promotion happens in may then? Nope. June. We will find out soon, check spl website for league placings they will reset it June, or have done. Don't back the spl up with a rule that doesn't show when the season officially ends x

And the second
No? Admin does. Season doesn't end when the final whistle goes. And Hun paranoia? Your at the wind up pal, spl give them enough rope and they will hang themselfs, just another bit of rope x

The SPL rule book was posted on here.

The season ends after the final fixture, or at such time as the Board decide.

[Alex Trager]

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The SPL rule book was posted on here.

The season ends after the final fixture, or at such time as the Board decide.

So what about people being promoted? In fact that happens at the start of the next season no?
Basically the Hun is saying that the season doesn't end when it says in the rules. Because of promotion and relegation

[CropleyWasGod]

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So what about people being promoted? In fact that happens at the start of the next season no?
Basically the Hun is saying that the season doesn't end when it says in the rules. Because of promotion and relegation

So a Hun is saying that the rules are irrelevant.

The season ends. THEN the process of transferring the SPL share takes place. THEN the new season starts.

[Gingertosser]

Does the 1st June date not refer to the transfer of the SPL share and not the end of the season ?

[Alex Trager]

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So a Hun is saying that the rules are irrelevant.

The season ends. THEN the process of transferring the SPL share takes place. THEN the new season starts.

This is his latest reply

Ok so because it's not a rule it doesn't matter. Year in year out is the same June 1st, then without notice that jumps forward for 1 season, what's the reasons? Why wasn't this said at start of season? X

Also this
Transfer of shares has been June 1st so basically end if season. Cause when the shares are swapped nothing can happen. This year it's in may, what is so hard to understand here?

[Mon Dieu4]

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This is his latest reply

Ok so because it's not a rule it doesn't matter. Year in year out is the same June 1st, then without notice that jumps forward for 1 season, what's the reasons? Why wasn't this said at start of season? X

Also this
Transfer of shares has been June 1st so basically end if season. Cause when the shares are swapped nothing can happen. This year it's in may, what is so hard to understand here?

i must be getting old but what's with the young team putting X at the end of messages these days, i see it on Facebook even between men, metrosexualism gone too far? id just delete him bud!

[CropleyWasGod]

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This is his latest reply

Ok so because it's not a rule it doesn't matter. Year in year out is the same June 1st, then without notice that jumps forward for 1 season, what's the reasons? Why wasn't this said at start of season? X

Also this
Transfer of shares has been June 1st so basically end if season. Cause when the shares are swapped nothing can happen. This year it's in may, what is so hard to understand here?

The Rules are made by the SPL Board, and ratified by the clubs. There is no mystery here. If they have been changed, then all the clubs know about it.

[EdinMike]

I've been posting WUM nonsense on Facebook since last night and the Jambo's aren't biting...

Have they accepted their fate ?!

[Alex Trager]

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i must be getting old but what's with the young team putting X at the end of messages these days, i see it on Facebook even between men, metrosexualism gone too far? id just delete him bud!

I never put kisses at the end which you'd see if I put my texts up haha.

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The Rules are made by the SPL Board, and ratified by the clubs. There is no mystery here. If they have been changed, then all the clubs know about it.

I agree. It's just paranoia

[Seveno]

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Or, another possibility,

It's Western who have decided to remove the cars, to protect themselves.

Western supplies cars to some of the players. I wonder if these are being are being recalled ?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Re the definition of a season and timing, the SPL rules are clear.

The "season" runs from the first game until the last game.

The period in between is the "close season".

Rule A6.8 states that if an insolvency event occurs during the "close season" period (ie May 20th or later), then the points penalty applies in the next "season" (ie 2013/14).

The SPL share is to be returned by the club no longer entitled to membership (ie whoever finishes 12th) ASAP after the season ends.

[Green Blood]

So the tick tock of the clock gets louder and louder! The process is underway,one which they won't survive. What really surprises me is the lack of demonstration/protest and acceptance of their predicament, they are like lambs to the slaughter, going quietly to meet their maker!

Romanov has them brainwashed, I liken it to Hitler and how his people viewed him. Look at FOH going quietly about their business, no announcements yet on their website since yesterdays news broke in Lithuania. They are clueless/rudderless and should have been much further on in their fight in readiness to save their club. They are not, no announcements of funds raised or plans to raise capital etc.

The reality is that all Hearts fans are complicit,guilty as charged for standing back and doing nothing whilst Romanov killed their club. The blame lies with them as much as it does with Vlad!

I lived through the HoH campaign and seen how active Hibs fans were in saving their club, something that has not been evident over at ***********.

When the day comes and it will, to lock the gates for the last time and demolish the stadium all Hearts fans need to have a look in the mirror and ask themselves, did I do enough to save my club! The answer to that is clearly a big no,guilty as charged all of them. I for one am delighted they are going to to the wall as it will be Hibs gain in many ways, one city one club!

We are all on here discussing the merits of this plan or that outcome, some of us want it to happen now, some of us see that the process has a little more time yet for the outcome to be clear, it will happen they can't survive they are closer to the big blender than they have ever been, soon to be liquidated, gone for good! Will I miss them, not in the slightest, there demise is our gain. The day is coming maybe not soon but its coming.