Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[CropleyWasGod]

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What he said was first installment was paid now. This could be £40k or £500k.

The instalments are £500k, no?

[Col2]

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The instalments are £500k, no?

Did allisBarry not suggest it was split over 12 months?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Did allisBarry not suggest it was split over 12 months?

Your point being?

I have always understood it to be 3 at £500k, in May, because that's when the Season Tickets are due. If HMRC were getting £40k per month, why would they start in May, and not back in December when the settlement was made?

[Spike Mandela]

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15.

(The rule is 15 or 1/3 last season's total, whichever is bigger.)

Are you sure?

http://www.scotprem.com/content/defa...2&newsid=11407

[SteveHFC]

HEARTS are poised to AVOID SPL relegation this season — even if they enter administration before the end of May.

The cash worries of Vladimir Romanov got worse yesterday as UKIO Bankas were declared bankrupt in a Kaunas court.
That means the administrators for the Bank of Lithuania have the power to call in £15million debt owed by the Tynecastle club.
By doing so immediately they would trigger a 17-point deduction that would instantly put Hearts six points behind current bottom club Dundee.
However, SunSport understands that’s unlikely to happen while the case is still being debated in the Lithuanian courts.
Any party wishing to appeal against the decision of the Kaunas court has ten days to do so.
Last night it emerged the transfer of the league’s golden share between the promoted and relegated sides will take place on May 20 — NOT June 1 as has traditionally been the case before.
That means Hearts will remain an SPL club next season provided they do not enter administration in the next three weeks.
Such an outcome looks increasingly likely with the process of sorting out UKIO’s affairs expected to take several weeks.
That would lead to Hearts instead kicking off the 2013/14 SPL season with a points deduction if they were to enter administration during the close season.
Jambos manager Gary Locke has revealed he was trained to deal with administration when he sat his SFA coaching badge earlier this year.
He said: “I did my Pro Licence with Jim Fleeting and Donald Park and to be fair to them they covered absolutely everything, including administration.
“On the course they put you through everything you might have to deal with as a manager.
“It covers the finance side as much as the coaching and deals with things people don’t see.
“It’s a learning process for everyone, especially me, but I can only concentrate on the football.
“It might be turmoil off the park, I don’t know, but it’s not turmoil on the training pitch.
“My sole focus is on the football, other questions are for the directors.
“I’m here as first-team manager and all I can concentrate on is football.
“What happens off the pitch is in the hands of the directors. I’m trying to deal with the players and getting on with the job.”

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...#ixzz2SBKrjsCd

[The Green Goblin]

When was the very first time this news broke? Was it still 1/5 anywhere in the world? Australia? New York? Anywhere?

[Treadstone]

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HEARTS are poised to AVOID SPL relegation this season — even if they enter administration before the end of May.

The cash worries of Vladimir Romanov got worse yesterday as UKIO Bankas were declared bankrupt in a Kaunas court.
That means the administrators for the Bank of Lithuania have the power to call in £15million debt owed by the Tynecastle club.
By doing so immediately they would trigger a 17-point deduction that would instantly put Hearts six points behind current bottom club Dundee.

How many media outlets are going to keep on WRONGLY saying that the deduction is 17pts. Lazy.

[Pete]

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How many media outlets are going to keep on WRONGLY saying that the deduction is 17pts. Lazy.

If they can't even get that right then what else are they reporting that is totally untrue?

A lot judging by all the mince I hear from hearts fans who think everything is OK. It's like the sevco situation all over again with joe public repeating garbage that the media have spouted: Sevco were "punished", "voted out" and "relegated"...all garbage.

I appreciate that being a journalist is probably quite a hard job but the facts aren't hard to find.

[neilmartinrocks]

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If they can't even get that right then what else are they reporting that is totally untrue?

A lot judging by all the mince I hear from hearts fans who think everything is OK. It's like the sevco situation all over again with joe public repeating garbage that the media have spouted: Sevco were "punished", "voted out" and "relegated"...all garbage.

I appreciate that being a journalist is probably quite a hard job but the facts aren't hard to find.

There's no many sports journalist's in scotland wuild ken a fact if it bit them on the arse

oooooh!! just noticed ARSE isnae censored.

[Hibercelona]

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I appreciate that being a journalist is probably quite a hard job but the facts aren't hard to find.

Totally agree.

They should come on Hibs.net, that'll help clear up any confusion and set the facts straight.

[lord bunberry]

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There's no many sports journalist's in scotland wuild ken a fact if it bit them on the arse

oooooh!! just noticed ARSE isnae censored.

Cock isnae censored either

[Matty_Jack04]

There's a few rumours and rumblings on Facebook amongst my yam aquaintences this morning....is he jig up?

[green glory]

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There's a few rumours and rumblings on Facebook amongst my yam aquaintences this morning....is he jig up?

What are they saying?

[bingo70]

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There's a few rumours and rumblings on Facebook amongst my yam aquaintences this morning....is he jig up?

Depends how reliable you're friends are on facebook, facebook itself isn't a source, your pals are!

(Don't take that the wrong way, not intended as a dig, I just find it funny when people use facebook or 'a text' as a source)

[Matty_Jack04]

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What are they saying?

They seem to think its admin over the weekend, it's all in what seems like yam code not got the reason behind why it's no longer a June 1st waiting game yet or where the story is coming from

[SHODAN]

I'll admit it - after all the false starts and "it'll happen soon guys, honest" posts from a large number of people on here for the last six years, I'm finally starting to get excited. Here's hoping.

[Benny Brazil]

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According to Brian McLaughlin, it has.

If he has been told that by HMFC, and it's crap, one might expect a rebuttal from HMRC. However, they don't often comment on specific tax cases.

This is the bit I dont get - why pay the £500k and then go into admin?

[matty_f]

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This is the bit I dont get - why pay the £500k and then go into admin?

Might be so they can go into admin on their terms (if that makes a difference?).

Missing the hmrc payment would have brought a winding up order against them which could have killed them off.

[Bostonhibby]

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There's no many sports journalist's in scotland wuild ken a fact if it bit them on the arse

oooooh!! just noticed ARSE isnae censored.

Neither is erse which I was using thinking arse was banned, cheers for the info! ******** is banned so you can't say yam ********. ***** is also banned so you can't call them that either, you can still think it though.

[Benny Brazil]

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Might be so they can go into admin on their terms (if that makes a difference?).

Missing the hmrc payment would have brought a winding up order against them which could have killed them off.

Ok - but did Sevco not manage to go into admin on their terms (and appoint their favoured Administrators) - despite HMRC attempting to force the issue, why would the Yams be any different - if the rumours are true they already have Administrators lined up so could do the deed before HMRC have time to act - maybe its just my lack of knowledge on these sort of financial issues.

[Hibee87]

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Might be so they can go into admin on their terms (if that makes a difference?).

Missing the hmrc payment would have brought a winding up order against them which could have killed them off.

Yip tats what my take on it would be. They know if they miss any payment to HMRC its straigt to winding up order. however I dont see what putting themselves in Admin would achieve? Admitadly im no expert but i belive to get out of admin they would need to aggree a CVA of a pence to the pound on all creditors which HMRC would reject. So would vaualantery admin even be worth it/an option

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Ok - but did Sevco not manage to go into admin on their terms (and appoint their favoured Administrators) - despite HMRC attempting to force the issue, why would the Yams be any different - if the rumours are true they already have Administrators lined up so could do the deed before HMRC have time to act - maybe its just my lack of knowledge on these sort of financial issues.

I think the hearts situ is pretty different in the fact they would not be able to sell/transfer the assests of the stadium or the shares at the moment.

[StevieC]

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That's the clearest sign yet that they're planning on going into administration as soon as possible after they're safe from relegation. That's got to raise a big red flag for HMRC and any business they're due money to.

I don't really get the "they'll wait till they're safe" argument.
Surely this would be dependent on creditors agreeing a CVA and as Ukio have security over all assets there is zero chance of this happening?

Liquidation and Division 3 will soon follow regardless of whether they avoid relegation?

[matty_f]

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Ok - but did Sevco not manage to go into admin on their terms (and appoint their favoured Administrators) - despite HMRC attempting to force the issue, why would the Yams be any different - if the rumours are true they already have Administrators lined up so could do the deed before HMRC have time to act - maybe its just my lack of knowledge on these sort of financial issues.

Sevco got their own administrator but hmrc forced them into administration iirc.

[CB_NO3]

Yeah the CVA would have to be agreed by the Lithuanian authorities as they are the main creditor with the bulk of the debt. It would make no sense for them to accept a 20p in the £1 deal as they will end up owning the stadium (which was valued at 6.8m as security on the 15m debt to Ukio). I think it will take someone to offer 6.8 million in order for the Liths to talk, if they dont they could eventually liquidate the company and sell the stadium anyway.

[StevieC]

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Ok - but did Sevco not manage to go into admin on their terms (and appoint their favoured Administrators) - despite HMRC attempting to force the issue, why would the Yams be any different - if the rumours are true they already have Administrators lined up so could do the deed before HMRC have time to act - maybe its just my lack of knowledge on these sort of financial issues.

Sevco, or rather CW, I reckon already had a good relationship with Duff and Phelps due to previous business dealings and would have known that they would have been (to a certain extent) "sympathetic" to CW's requirements. For example, the sale of assets for £5.5m.

In not sure that anyone at Hearts will have anyone on board with the same type of relationship with an administrator that CW had with Duff and Phelps.

[jodjam]

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I don't really get the "they'll wait till they're safe" argument.
Surely this would be dependent on creditors agreeing a CVA and as Ukio have security over all assets there is zero chance of this happening?

Liquidation and Division 3 will soon follow regardless of whether they avoid relegation?

Not sure div 3 would automatically follow. If they don't have the PBS this could work against them.

Plus the Spartans and other sides would surely mount a challenge if teams like them and pars were shoe horned into div 3

[Part/Time Supporter]

Today's bit of Yam propaganda in the Scotsman is pushing a line I predicted a couple of months back: that UBIG being pushed into administration should not automatically result in a points deduction for HMFC.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/hearts-...bust-1-2918028

Should there be a ruling that Ukio do in fact own 79 per cent of the shares in Hearts, the board of the Scottish Premier League would then have to take a closer interest. At present, as neither Hearts nor Ubig have suffered an insolvency event, the SPL will not take action against the club.

There are no hard-and-fast rules to define what happens if a club’s parent company suffers an insolvency event. Indeed, there are no hard-and-fast rules about how a parent company should be defined. Even if a parent company of Hearts or any other member club did suffer an insolvency event, the SPL board would have to assess various factors before deeming that the club itself should have a points penalty imposed. One of those factors is the club’s current ability to carry on normal daily operations without need of continued financial support from the parent company. Hearts insist that they have been doing this since early last year.

[StevieC]

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Yeah the CVA would have to be agreed by the Lithuanian authorities as they are the main creditor with the bulk of the debt. It would make no sense for them to accept a 20p in the £1 deal as they will end up owning the stadium (which was valued at 6.8m as security on the 15m debt to Ukio). I think it will take someone to offer 6.8 million in order for the Liths to talk, if they dont they could eventually liquidate the company and sell the stadium anyway.

No, the Liths would not be involved in a CVA as they are secured creditors.
I reckon that HMRC would be the main creditors in a CVA, although they're not known for accepting CVAs so the outcome would be the same .. rejected.

[Mon Dieu4]

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Today's bit of Yam propaganda in the Scotsman is pushing a line I predicted a couple of months back: that UBIG being pushed into administration should not automatically result in a points deduction for HMFC.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/hearts-...bust-1-2918028

i would define a parent company is the company you.plaster all over your website saying they are your parent company!!

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20110512/hearts-back-in-profit_2241384_2358272

NEXT

[Part/Time Supporter]

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This is the bit I dont get - why pay the £500k and then go into admin?

It's all about timing. If they had missed the £500K payment, then HMRC would have filed a winding up petition against HMFC immediately. That would have gone through within two weeks, meaning HMFC would have entered insolvency (in this case liquidation) before the end of the season.