Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Gus Fring]

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[Mon Dieu4]

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so im being told that the 15 mill debt still has 2 years of paying 'interest only' so the the 15 mill aint going to be called in.... im no financial whizz but does this not mean **** all now? As far as I am aware the liquidators want to retrieve as much money as possible as quickly as possible.

Also, I thought the stadium was collateral from UBIG to UKIO for 15 mil, and vlad used to the stadium as a bargaining tool to take the 15 mill out the bank..........fluck me im totally confused now like.


wake me up again when jambogeddon happens

i think the £15m is a loan with Ukio Bankas but some time this summer they are due UBIG £8m or so

[Aldo]

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Check out my conversation with @TheReal_Romanov on twitter for some laughs. I feel like I have lost a part of my life I will never get back with that conversation. Truly dismally stupid.

Just had an interesting conversation myself with a deluded Yam. Said I was old and should get to bed.

Couldn't handle the truth tbh

[Saorsa]

[rcarter1]

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I'm starting to get a whiff of Yam now. There survival in their current guise is VERY unlikely, you need to accept that. They can't be sold and they're up to their eyes in debt.

NOT this.

I disagree that they cant be sold. If in the grab for cash, some investment group comes in with 4-5million, to placate the lithuanian creditors and clear debts (HMRC etc etc), and then look to get their money back at say £250,000+ per year, then theyve got a steady earner with a possibility of a sale in future to recoup the rest of their investment (and a bit of profit).

I agree that its going to be very hard for Hearts to continue without some form of financial handicap, but they have a turnover of around at least 7 million (it was 7 million in 2003/4 and a lot more in 2008). They can soak up some form of repayment plan - to whomever - and still operate as a football club.

Id be delighted to see them go the way of Rangers, and would be just desserts, but I just dont buy into the certainty that some have.

[Hibee87]

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i think the £15m is a loan with Ukio Bankas but some time this summer they are due UBIG £8m

So they owe Ukio 15 mill from a loan, and UBIG 8 mill of which the stadium is secured for......so really even after todays news its no difference from any other day until we know / hear what happens to UBIG? ............................

unless UKIO ask for the 15 mill tomorrow, and hearts say we 'huvnae got it' what action would the liquidator then take

[Aldo]

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Check out my conversation with @TheReal_Romanov on twitter for some laughs. I feel like I have lost a part of my life I will never get back with that conversation. Truly dismally stupid.

@thereal_romanov = total deluded roaster.

Can I ask when it all goes tits up can I join in with the fun on twitter??

[Mon Dieu4]

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So they owe Ukio 15 mill from a loan, and UBIG 8 mill of which the stadium is secured for......so really even after todays news its no difference from any other day until we know / hear what happens to UBIG? ............................

unless UKIO ask for the 15 mill tomorrow, and hearts say we 'huvnae got it' what action would the liquidator then take

one of the clever folk on here could answer better than me.mate, i think today just confirmed what we all knew was coming, the big news will be when UBIG go tits up as they are the parent company

[TrinityHibs]

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If it were me, from a purely business aspect, I would (assuming I could) take control of the stadium and rent it back to whatever football team emerged from administration/liquidation.

Whilst it's true that the football stadium is only of any use to The HoMFC, by the same token The HoMFC needs the football stadium.

A exorbitant high rent (just enough to allow them to keep trading) would be a much better way to claw back a substantial amount of the debt than selling it "on the cheap" to some supporters group.

The ball would then be in the court of the football club to pay the required rent or move out, and if it were the latter .. leaving an empty stadium with a nice chunk of land ready to sell on the open market.

We all know (deep down) that Hearts aren't going to disappear, and the share issues simply proves to the Lith's that they have a large group of people willing to throw money at football team, and they could potentially use it to their advantage.

Not a bad shout Stevie but what happens to your financial model if they don't lodge accounts. I dont know but thought it was worth asking

[Hibee87]

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one of the clever folk on here could answer better than me.mate, i think today just confirmed what we all knew was coming, the big news will be when UBIG go tits up as they are the parent company

Nae worries mate part of me hopes this whole saga continues through the summer.......its awfy boring when the season finshes

[mca]

Cant Help but thinking - Just somehow the jambos will come out of this totally debt free and still have the stadium...

It just seems me that club - could fall in a barrell of elbows and still come out sucking abbey crouchs tits..

[Gus Fring]

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NOT this.

I disagree that they cant be sold. If in the grab for cash, some investment group comes in with 4-5million, to placate the lithuanian creditors and clear debts (HMRC etc etc), and then look to get their money back at say £250,000+ per year, then theyve got a steady earner with a possibility of a sale in future to recoup the rest of their investment (and a bit of profit).

I agree that its going to be very hard for Hearts to continue without some form of financial handicap, but they have a turnover of around at least 7 million (it was 7 million in 2003/4 and a lot more in 2008). They can soak up some form of repayment plan - to whomever - and still operate as a football club.

Id be delighted to see them go the way of Rangers, and would be just desserts, but I just dont buy into the certainty that some have.

As has been discussed several times on this thread, all of UBIG's assets have been frozen. UBIG are Hearts' Majority shareholder, therefore, Hearts cannot be sold.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Cant Help but thinking - Just somehow the jambos will come out of this totally debt free and still have the stadium...

It just seems me that club - could fall in a barrell of elbows and still come out sucking abbey crouchs tits..

Can you explain how?

[StevieC]

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So they owe Ukio 15 mill from a loan, and UBIG 8 mill of which the stadium is secured for......

My understanding was that they don't owe UKIO anything.

They owe UBIG an "undisclosed" amount (estimated to be anything between £25m-£40m).

UBIG at some point in the not too distant past used Tynecastle as a £15m security on loans from UKIO to UBIG.

Beyond that I have to admit that I am lost as to the implications of what is getting played out in Lithuania and how things directly affect Hearts ability to continue in their current form.

I kinda get the impression though, that if administration kicks in it is down to their own inability to pay their bills, rather than getting taken down by anything that is currently going on in Lithuania.

[TrinityHibs]

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NOT this.

I disagree that they cant be sold. If in the grab for cash, some investment group comes in with 4-5million, to placate the lithuanian creditors and clear debts (HMRC etc etc), and then look to get their money back at say £250,000+ per year, then theyve got a steady earner with a possibility of a sale in future to recoup the rest of their investment (and a bit of profit).

I agree that its going to be very hard for Hearts to continue without some form of financial handicap, but they have a turnover of around at least 7 million (it was 7 million in 2003/4 and a lot more in 2008). They can soak up some form of repayment plan - to whomever - and still operate as a football club.

Id be delighted to see them go the way of Rangers, and would be just desserts, but I just dont buy into the certainty that some have.

Who in what universe would give up £4-5 million for the basket case that is Hertz? FOH who seem to be the liveliest group of dafties have got the square root of nowt. Is it going to be the Queen of Hearts Anne (Gloag) that wee Eck sends in or just some random cardigan wearing mouthpiece from Corstorphine?

[7062]

Do UBIG owe anything to UKIO?

[grunt]

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btw, don't know if it was mentioned above ... but according to Brian McLaughlin they've paid the first 500K to HMRC.

Where does he say this? It would be quite something if this were true - a statement that they mean to carry on if at all possible, is how I see it. If it's been paid.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So they owe Ukio 15 mill from a loan, and UBIG 8 mill of which the stadium is secured for......so really even after todays news its no difference from any other day until we know / hear what happens to UBIG? ............................

unless UKIO ask for the 15 mill tomorrow, and hearts say we 'huvnae got it' what action would the liquidator then take

The UKIO money isn't a loan, AFAIK. £15m has been mentioned, as has £10m. However, UKIO have a security over Tynie for £6.8m, which was taken out a few months ago. My understanding is that that is the amount owed to UKIO, either by them or UBIG. The £15m is probably the "facility", ie the maximum HMFC could go to on their overdraft.

The UBIG debt is secured by a charge over all of the assets. These, of course, are diddley-squat. How much is that debt? Pick a number..... but I wouldn't be surprised at £20m.

What today has cleared up is the confirmation of UKIO's administration. That means that their administrator will come for Tynie.

Other than that, you're right, not much has changed.... except that sphincters are moving much more quickly than they were yesterday.

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Cant Help but thinking - Just somehow the jambos will come out of this totally debt free and still have the stadium...

It just seems me that club - could fall in a barrell of elbows and still come out sucking abbey crouchs tits..

Okay, humour me.

How?

[Hibee87]

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As has been discussed several times on this thread, all of UBIG's assets have been frozen. UBIG are Hearts' Majority shareholder, therefore, Hearts cannot be sold.

Are you sure that statement is correct? Is it not VLADS assests that has been frozen? The shares are with UBIG, who, as far as I know are still a normal active trading company (for the moment any way) so one of 2 things could happen:

1) new board member(s) are appointed at UBIG who on vlads say so sell the shares to highest bidder or,

2) UKIO call in debt owed by UBIG in the not to distant future, and without explaining things for the millionth time ripples through to hearts being put in admin should UBIB be unable to pay said debt.

[Kato]

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Secondly, who would pay to make the place habitable for next season ? In all today's excitement I forgot I was told yesterday the safety certificate for the PBS was not going to be re-newed without major alterations to the old stand. Can't vouch for the info. as it was second hand but not unexpected.

That is the main argument against the Lithuanian Administration People (hope we get to hear who they are soon so we can start calling them by their names, lovely guys btw) renting that tip back to the club and hoping to see cash back before eventually offloading onto, say FoH. As owners they would be responsible for the upkeep of said khasi - they would have to deal with the safety aspect and safety upkeep, the asbestos management complete with regular health and safety inspections, the Council tax complete with arrears etc etc.

They would be doing Hearts a huuuuuuge favour by agreeing to taking that lot on.

A further aspect is that Hearts, along with paying the rent would also be expected to service the debt (which seems to be split between both UBIG and UB(r.i.p.). No this is heresay but I've heard from several sources that Hearts have never once paid any interest on the debts accrued during Mr Romanov's tenure, he merely added onto the debt thereby increasing said debt and ironically making the interest higher. There's no doubt that if the nice Lithuanian Administration People were kindly enough to allow that rape clan to continue living in their lean-to at a set rent they would also want their pound of flesh re the set interest payments.

Add in the HMRC debt and the normal running costs of just merely being a Football Club they just wouldn't be able to cut.

No way are the going to bend over for HMFC like that - admin, liquidised, sell off the **** that isn't nailed down and some that is - HMFC kaput.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Are you sure that statement is correct? Is it not VLADS assests that has been frozen? The shares are with UBIG, who, as far as I know are still a normal active trading company (for the moment any way) so one of 2 things could happen:

1) new board member(s) are appointed at UBIG who on vlads say so sell the shares to highest bidder or,

2) UKIO call in debt owed by UBIG in the not to distant future, and without explaining things for the millionth time ripples through to hearts being put in admin should UBIB be unable to pay said debt.

yes.

[rcarter1]

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As has been discussed several times on this thread, all of UBIG's assets have been frozen. UBIG are Hearts' Majority shareholder, therefore, Hearts cannot be sold.

OK, but at some point when creditors come looking for cash, they will then presumably be up for sale in some form or another. Ach anyway, I just dont want to see Yams walking around with stupid grins on their faces because they slivered out from yet another rock.

Unless we start beating them badly for the foreseeable future - in which case they will wish they had gone pop!

[steviehibsleith]

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Cant Help but thinking - Just somehow the jambos will come out of this totally debt free and still have the stadium...

It just seems me that club - could fall in a barrell of elbows and still come out sucking abbey crouchs tits..

Cant see that happening and the stadium is a liability anyway. 1 stand is ready to be condemned therefore anyone wanting to keep the Stadium as a ongoing issue will also need to invest £6 million to replace it - Better off as new affordable housing

[Kato]

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I disagree that they cant be sold.

I suggest you tell Gintare Putnikiene of Kaunas District Court this, who on freezing Vladimir Romanov's assets, and therefore his shares in UBIG and thus HMFC, said - “Any sale or transfer” of UBIG’s shares in Hearts or its other property “is forbidden”.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-s-assets.html

[CropleyWasGod]

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OK, but at some point when creditors come looking for cash, they will then presumably be up for sale in some form or another. Ach anyway, I just dont want to see Yams walking around with stupid grins on their faces because they slivered out from yet another rock.

Unless we start beating them badly for the foreseeable future - in which case they will wish they had gone pop!

Not necessarily.

If the Lith Courts decide to keep them frozen, there is nothing anyone in the UK (creditor or otherwise) can do.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I suggest you tell Gintare Putnikiene of Kaunas District Court this, who on freezing Vladimir Romanov's assets, and therefore his shares in UBIG and thus HMFC, said - “Any sale or transfer” of UBIG’s shares in Hearts or its other property “is forbidden”.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-s-assets.html

Brian McLauchlin said on Radio Scotland earlier today that this ruling (freezing UBIG assets) has been appealed. As the article says, they had 7 days from the date of ruling (12 April) to appeal.

[mca]

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Okay, humour me.

How?

Look at the Taxman saga.. one minute they were chasing it .. next minute they get yonks to pay it off !!! and poor dunfermline had to pay theirs..



It just seems that everytime something goes against them.. they come out the other end better off !!!! im sick of it



i would even go as far as reckon that if hearts did fold. they would magically find an ancient Gold burial ground below the stadium !! and that after paying off the debts and buliding a new stadium.. they would still end up having 50million or so to spend whilst working their way up from the bottom..


bit much i know.. but

[CropleyWasGod]

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Brian McLauchlin said on Radio Scotland earlier today that this ruling (freezing UBIG assets) has been appealed. As the article says, they had 7 days from the date of ruling (23 April) to appeal.

Did he say by whom?

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Look at the Taxman saga.. one minute they were chasing it .. next minute they get yonks to pay it off !!! and poor dunfermline had to pay theirs..

HMRC played a good game with that. And with Dunfermline. They are much more commercially savvy than many organisations out there.

[21.05.2016]

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Yam mates starting with the '5-1' patter already, incredible.

Hahaha had the same from them. Let them hide behind their 5-1 pish and their pathetic wee 5-1 hand gestures, all that can't save them!

[bighairyfaeleith]

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Do UBIG owe anything to UKIO?

only 400 million or so, nowt to worry about really