Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[#FromTheCapital]

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What about non submission of accounts which were due by 31 March?

Hearts might have submitted accounts to SPL, nobody knows. Although it is very unlikely...

[Sanger]

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Any predictions where I can stick a few bob that will last my retirement before I get my pensions coming in

avoid Europe, Asia. avoid bonds. I would go for US companies - maybe an index fund on S&P 500.

[CropleyWasGod]

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avoid Europe, Asia. avoid bonds. I would go for US companies - maybe an index fund on S&P 500.

Sod investments. What about the first race at Ascot tonight?

[Lucius Apuleius]

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avoid Europe, Asia. avoid bonds. I would go for US companies - maybe an index fund on S&P 500.

Never really expected an answer but you are basically where my head was anyway. I did think about the BRIC (and maybe the S). I shall take direction before doing anything.

[Off the bar]

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Let's clear a few things up as it seems some people don't actually bother reading the thread and just skip to the end hoping to see a post saying "Hearts are deed"

6) If Hearts or UBIG (not Ukio Bankas) enter administration on or before the 31st of May then Hearts will be deducted 18 points. If it happens after the 31st of May hearts will be deducted 1/3 of whatever they finish this season on.

.

I had it in my head that the season officially ended on June 10th. meaning they could be docked 18 points up until this point, excellent summary otherwise.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Let's clear a few things up as it seems some people don't actually bother reading the thread and just skip to the end hoping to see a post saying "Hearts are deed"


5) Ukio Bankas holds the security over Tynecastle. This is seperate from UBIG and Hearts.

Talking of pedantic sods....

UKIO Bankas hold "a" security over Tynie. UBIG also have a security over all of the assets, but IIRC UKIO's ranks first.

And it's "separate".

Good summary, though. I'm just back from marking exams, and I would have given you a decent mark.

[Lucius Apuleius]

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Sod investments. What about the first race at Ascot tonight?

A man after my own heart. I was made reduntant about 27 years ago but moved under TUPE and just changed hats at midnight, It was a good package and I wanted to go and put it straight on the first favourite. Wife and bank manager refused to release the funds :-(.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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avoid Europe, Asia. avoid bonds. I would go for US companies - maybe an index fund on S&P 500.

Would I be right in saying "the value of investments can go down as well as up"?

[JimBHibees]

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A man after my own heart. I was made reduntant about 27 years ago but moved under TUPE and just changed hats at midnight, It was a good package and I wanted to go and put it straight on the first favourite. Wife and bank manager refused to release the funds :-(.

Are they not the same person?

[steviehibsleith]

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To be fair, there's not a lot for the SPL to go on. Administration hasn't happened yet.

As for the SFA, the only thing they can act on is the (apparent) non-submission of the 2012 accounts. The "fit and proper owner" charge wouldn't stick until "the owner" (presumably you mean Romanov, even although he's not) has actually been convicted of something.

HI CWG you state non-submission of 2012 accounts, In the Evening news and Daily papers they are spouting off that they are reducing costs, living within thier means and have borrowed no money from Ukio/Ubig in the last 12 months.

If all is sweet why havent they submitted 2012 accounts ? In your opinion you think they are telling porkies.
Also when does the SPL stipulate they should be submitted for, are they breaking the rules here.

Anyone can answer just directing it at yourself good man as you filled me in on a previous question cheers

[Sanger]

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Would I be right in saying "the value of investments can go down as well as up"?

But in the long run they all mainly go up unless in a dodgy team from West Embra

[CropleyWasGod]

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HI CWG you state non-submission of 2012 accounts, In the Evening news and Daily papers they are spouting off that they are reducing costs, living within thier means and have borrowed no money from Ukio/Ubig in the last 12 months.

If all is sweet why havent they submitted 2012 accounts ? In your opinion you think they are telling porkies.
Also when does the SPL stipulate they should be submitted for, are they breaking the rules here.

Anyone can answer just directing it at yourself good man as you filled me in on a previous question cheers

Firstly, they may have submitted the 2012 accounts to the SFA (it's them, not the SPL), although that is unlikely. They definitely haven't submitted them to Companies House.

The likeliest reason for not submitting the accounts to CH is that they have yet to be signed off by their auditor. The auditor has a problem, as I'm sure Cav will explain in greater detail than I can. S/he has to satisfy themselves that the company is a going concern before they can give any decent report on the accounts. With UBIG already stating that they won't support HMFC, and with the UKIO stuff going on, I can't see any way that HMFC ARE a going concern.

So, there will be a stand-off between the company and the auditor. The company won't want a report saying "the company is donald-ducked", and the auditor won't want to compromise their own standards. They will also want paid.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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But in the long run they all mainly go up unless in a dodgy team from West Embra

I get you now. Say I was to acquire some shares in this team, at say a penny a share. What sort of returns can I expect after: a) one year; b) five years; and c) 51 years?

[PatHead]

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Firstly, they may have submitted the 2012 accounts to the SFA (it's them, not the SPL), although that is unlikely. They definitely haven't submitted them to Companies House.

The likeliest reason for not submitting the accounts to CH is that they have yet to be signed off by their auditor. The auditor has a problem, as I'm sure Cav will explain in greater detail than I can. S/he has to satisfy themselves that the company is a going concern before they can give any decent report on the accounts. With UBIG already stating that they won't support HMFC, and with the UKIO stuff going on, I can't see any way that HMFC ARE a going concern.

So, there will be a stand-off between the company and the auditor. The company won't want a report saying "the company is donald-ducked", and the auditor won't want to compromise their own standards. They will also want paid.

What will break the stand-off and how long does that normally take?

[CropleyWasGod]

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What will break the stand-off and how long does that normally take?

I don't know that it can be, without someone getting burned. The options are probably:-

1. the auditors say "it's not a going concern", the company says "okay then".... the accounts are published, and the company goes under very quickly.

2. the company says "here's £5m, give us a decent report", the auditor says "okay then". Given events elsewhere, I don't think that would stave off insolvency. (Legal note:- this is in no way impugning the reputation of Johnston whoever, or the audit profession..... apart from those ****ers who did Enron).

3. nothing happens. Companies House eventually get nasty, and strike the company off.

4. events elsewhere render all of this insignificant and meaningless.

[Ozyhibby]

It keeps getting repeated that Boone benefits from putting them in admin but there must be some benefit in doing it before they spend all the season ticket money on under performing footballers?

[Lucius Apuleius]

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Are they not the same person?

Very very nearly. The bank manager at the time lives next door to me!

[Sanger]

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It keeps getting repeated that Boone benefits from putting them in admin but there must be some benefit in doing it before they spend all the season ticket money on under performing footballers?

Too wade off HMRC and the forced sale of Tyncsatle by the Lithuanian administrators ( time to seek a buyer of the whole club including stadium - hightly unlikley anyone has the money - or find a new home before sale goes through). The latter they have been clearly working on - meeting with council and stories on on here describing valuation of Tynie indicate it is a course they are pursuing.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Too wade off HMRC and the forced sale of Tyncsatle by the Lithuanian administrators ( time to seek a buyer of the whole club including stadium - hightly unlikley anyone has the money - or find a new home before sale goes through). The latter they have been clearly working on - meeting with council and stories on on here describing valuation of Tynie indicate it is a course they are pursuing.

Yeah, it's about control, or at least the illusion of control.

[greenginger]

I see in tonight's News Allisbarry is changing his position again on the £1.5 million due to HMRC.

I think he had previously said it was to be paid in monthly installments, but he has a list of key dates and one is a £ 500,000 payment due to HMRC in May ( does not say which day unfortunately )

Also finance expert Neil Pately says now is the right time for any Yams wanting to buy HOMFC to get their funding together and make an offer to the Lith. admin.

[JimBHibees]

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I see in tonight's News Allisbarry is changing his position again on the £1.5 million due to HMRC.

I think he had previously said it was to be paid in monthly installments, but he has a list of key dates and one is a £ 500,000 payment due to HMRC in May ( does not say which day unfortunately )

Also finance expert Neil Pately says now is the right time for any Yams wanting to buy HOMFC to get their funding together and make an offer to the Lith. admin.

He definitely did say it was monthly payments.

[21.05.2016]

I seen there was a lassie called Alice Barry on ITV's This morning show today

Alice Barry - could it be a sign


No joke BTW lol

[Green Blood]

Some things to ponder!

1) The administrators job is damage limitation,they have to recover as much as they can

2) If sold as a going concern then HMFC have to retain their SPL status for administrator to recover a higher price.

3) I would be surprised if the only interest shown has been from the FOH or other interested parties wishing to keep the club going as is.

4) There must be property developers/speculative interested parties that want the land for development and would not be surprised if some bids are being tabled as we speak or are with the Temp Administrator in Lithuania.

5) Purely speculative this bit - Assuming a National House Builder wants to build 12 Blocks Flats 4 Storeys High with 4 Flats per Storey = 192 Units @ £150k average per unit that equates to £28,800,000. Then assuming the land is valued at £5 million the percentage of land valued against the gross figure = 17.36%. I am no expert on this but I would hazard a guess that this is a viable margin proposition for any developer

6) There is no White Knight or any party that have shown an interest in securing the club and stadium that have both the funds available now to purchase as a going concern. I believe that the FOH could muster a couple of million maximum but that would take time and thats time the administrator can't or won't entertain.

7) They (HMFC) may rise like a phoenix from the ashes, but in a lower league under another name without their own ground. They will be liquidated in my opinion and the asset they call the Pink Wongadome will be sold off to property developers. Think its important to remember that Edinburgh is a growing city and the demand for the right sorts of properties will continue to grow.

8) My one fear is that Edinburgh Council step in and buy it under the premise that they are going to develop it at some point in the future but in the meantime allow HMFC to rent it from them and continue playing there.

Conclusion - They will be Liquidated and assets sold off to highest bidder. It will happen but suspect that it won't be soon maybe see something concrete develop around July/August

[Just Alf]

I can set your mind at ease re no 8)

The council just don't have that amount of free money to do it.

Never say never of course, the only way it could happen is if significant funds are pulled from elsewhere .... The new primary school for example.

The whole idea is being looked upon as political suicide if it was pursued.

Source = drinking buddy who is a councillor and a Yam.

[#FromTheCapital]

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I see in tonight's News Allisbarry is changing his position again on the £1.5 million due to HMRC.

I think he had previously said it was to be paid in monthly installments, but he has a list of key dates and one is a £ 500,000 payment due to HMRC in May ( does not say which day unfortunately )

Also finance expert Neil Pately says now is the right time for any Yams wanting to buy HOMFC to get their funding together and make an offer to the Lith. admin.

I'd love to be in the room if/when Foundation of Hearts make an offer...
"So how much money do you have??",
"Well none actually, but take a look at all these pledges...."
*Liths struggle to contain laughter when presented with a list of names such as 'Barry Ryde', 'Phil McCracken', 'Eric Shaun' etc etc*

[jgl07]

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Firstly, they may have submitted the 2012 accounts to the SFA (it's them, not the SPL), although that is unlikely. They definitely haven't submitted them to Companies House.

The likeliest reason for not submitting the accounts to CH is that they have yet to be signed off by their auditor. The auditor has a problem, as I'm sure Cav will explain in greater detail than I can. S/he has to satisfy themselves that the company is a going concern before they can give any decent report on the accounts. With UBIG already stating that they won't support HMFC, and with the UKIO stuff going on, I can't see any way that HMFC ARE a going concern.

So, there will be a stand-off between the company and the auditor. The company won't want a report saying "the company is donald-ducked", and the auditor won't want to compromise their own standards. They will also want paid.

So what happens next? I can't see they have much hope of getting paid!

What penalties are likely to be imposed for non-return of accounts? Hearts were let off last season by the football authorities for late submission of accounts (presumably down to the same issues with the auditors). This cannot drag on for ever. Are they trying to stagger on till the end of the season?

While there seems little point in Administration, it would at least buy a little time. Maybe the plan was to go for administration but Dundee's recent revival has scuppered that plan as it would mean certain relegation and make a buyer even harder to find.

[Sanger]

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Some things to ponder!

1) The administrators job is damage limitation,they have to recover as much as they can

2) If sold as a going concern then HMFC have to retain their SPL status for administrator to recover a higher price.

3) I would be surprised if the only interest shown has been from the FOH or other interested parties wishing to keep the club going as is.

4) There must be property developers/speculative interested parties that want the land for development and would not be surprised if some bids are being tabled as we speak or are with the Temp Administrator in Lithuania.

5) Purely speculative this bit - Assuming a National House Builder wants to build 12 Blocks Flats 4 Storeys High with 4 Flats per Storey = 192 Units @ £150k average per unit that equates to £28,800,000. Then assuming the land is valued at £5 million the percentage of land valued against the gross figure = 17.36%. I am no expert on this but I would hazard a guess that this is a viable margin proposition for any developer

6) There is no White Knight or any party that have shown an interest in securing the club and stadium that have both the funds available now to purchase as a going concern. I believe that the FOH could muster a couple of million maximum but that would take time and thats time the administrator can't or won't entertain.

7) They (HMFC) may rise like a phoenix from the ashes, but in a lower league under another name without their own ground. They will be liquidated in my opinion and the asset they call the Pink Wongadome will be sold off to property developers. Think its important to remember that Edinburgh is a growing city and the demand for the right sorts of properties will continue to grow.

8) My one fear is that Edinburgh Council step in and buy it under the premise that they are going to develop it at some point in the future but in the meantime allow HMFC to rent it from them and continue playing there.

Conclusion - They will be Liquidated and assets sold off to highest bidder. It will happen but suspect that it won't be soon maybe see something concrete develop around July/August

The only real thing of value is the land that the stadium sits on. The rest of HMFC has little value and without being liquidated carries debts. Nobody has the money to pay for the stadium who wants to save HMFC. That is why liquidation is on the cards with the stadium sold alone. A new club would have to be reconstituted and find somewhere else to play. If administration can slow the process down then Hearts could sell stadium and give the money to the administrators and move to new ground without being liquidated and end up in Div. 1 instead of applying to enter Div. 3!

[CropleyWasGod]

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So what happens next? I can't see they have much hope of getting paid!

What penalties are likely to be imposed for non-return of accounts? Hearts were let off last season by the football authorities for late submission of accounts (presumably down to the same issues with the auditors). This cannot drag on for ever. Are they trying to stagger on till the end of the season?

While there seems little point in Administration, it would at least buy a little time. Maybe the plan was to go for administration but Dundee's recent revival has scuppered that plan as it would mean certain relegation and make a buyer even harder to find.

There are two penalty regimes for non-submission of accounts. (Actually, there are 3. HMRC will penalise them, but that's financial. Good luck with that).

1. the SFA have a range of penalties that they can use. Last year, being the first year of the new licensing regime, they probably wrote to HMFC "reminding" them of their responsibilities. It remains to be seen what they will do this year. The penalties range from financial through to suspension and termination of membership.

2. Companies House's penalty regime has probably already kicked in. There is a proposal to strike the company off, which has probably (although not certainly) been triggered by the non-submission of the accounts. That proposal will probably be (or have been) objected to by HMRC, so the company remains in existence for the moment.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The only real thing of value is the land that the stadium sits on. The rest of HMFC has little value and without being liquidated carries debts. Nobody has the money to pay for the stadium who wants to save HMFC. That is why liquidation is on the cards with the stadium sold alone. A new club would have to be reconstituted and find somewhere else to play. If administration can slow the process down then Hearts could sell stadium and give the money to the administrators and move to new ground without being liquidated and end up in Div. 1 instead of applying to enter Div. 3!

That would require UKIO and UBIG to write off the remainder of their secured debts, no? And what would happen to the unsecured creditors?

[Just Alf]

Oh ma sides!!!!

Just been on brokeback and read this corker!

"As as been discussed numerous times, the £25m debt mentioned in the article, if indeed that's what it is, is never going to be paid or asked for. Romanov/UBIG/whoever gambled, spent big, timed it badly with a global recession and ultimately lost - as many financial institutions, football clubs and other businesses have done. They will accept this as part of business. If every bank or lender or investor closed down businesses to get their money back there would be no businesses left."


This is sooo funny and outlandish it MUST have been one of you lot that posted it!?

If this really reflects how the Saville's think then its no wonder they won't be here next season!

:D