Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[StevieC]

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Would the domino effect not continue Ukio want money owed from Ubig hell we are skint Hearts can pay us back ,what your skint too! Well its admin\liquidation all round.

I doubt that UBIG have any money, and I'm pretty sure that Hearts don't. All that's left to do is transfer all the assets to Siauliu Bankas who, I suspect, will try to recoup as much as they can from them.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Looks like a fachan to me.



Attachment 9401

I haven't seen a fachan for ages, you've just prompted me to go on the hunt at a certain Speyside site

[Sergey]

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I doubt that UBIG have any money, and I'm pretty sure that Hearts don't. All that's left to do is transfer all the assets to Siauliu Bankas who, I suspect, will try to recoup as much as they can from them.

Stevie - Siauliu Bankas aren't taking over the Yams debt, that's one of the 'bad' assets on Ukio's books. The recovery of that debt is in the hands of the Lithuanian authorities.

The authorities will subsequently control the security of Tynecastle, not Siauliu Bankas.

[clerriehibs]

Why are the media not all over this? It was 3 or 4 pages worth every day on all the papers last year when it was the sevco. The gtetna collapse had moe coverage, FFS!!!

[jgl07]

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But hearts wouldn't be in administration its ubig. Hearts could still limp on till the end of the season as long as they keep paying the bills. Its not until the whole mess that is ubig gets unravelled will hearts fate be decided

Don't you mean start paying their bills?

[StevieC]

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The authorities will subsequently control the security of Tynecastle, not Siauliu Bankas.

Hmmm, I can see Salmond getting involved there then and pressuring for an outcome that won't tarnish Lithuanian/Scottish relations.

[clerriehibs]

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Hmmm, I can see Salmond getting involved there then and pressuring for an outcome that won't tarnish Lithuanian/Scottish relations.

Whereas, I can't. Aren't independence yes/no debates held on the holy ground?

[EuanH78]

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I doubt that UBIG have any money, and I'm pretty sure that Hearts don't. All that's left to do is transfer all the assets to Siauliu Bankas who, I suspect, will try to recoup as much as they can from them.

As far as my untrained eye goes, Hearts are already insolvent and have only been able to operate due to the largess of Ubig who in turn relied on the (probably illegal workings) largess of Ukio. Now Ukio is being liquidated I would expect Ubig will follow and Hearts too in turn.

Not sure I see there being any value in appointing an administrator as their situation is hopeless - surely straight to liquidation?

Like I said, my untrained eye. Maybe someone with better knowledge could say if that is likely or not.

[green glory]

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Hmmm, I can see Salmond getting involved there then and pressuring for an outcome that won't tarnish Lithuanian/Scottish relations.

I doubt it.

[Smidge]

There's a fair bit of confusion about the positioning of Hearts' debt vis a vis the bank that are taking on the "good" part of Ukio Bankas, apparently on Friday. For the avoidance of doubt, this is how I see it...

...As many Yams have been quick to point out, their debt is to UBIG, a totally separate company for legal purposes, though there was undoubtedly a close commercial relationship.

...It would appear that a significant reason for Ukio's extraordinarily bad financial position was the over-extension of debt facilities, and the lax treatment of those facilities subsequently, to entities related to Vlad. One of these entities is, of course, UBIG, though there could be others.

...The implication is that there are likely to be a substantial shortfall in the potential recovery to cover UBIG's debt to Ukio, which means that it will be treated as part of "bad" bank and will be subject to the liquidation process that the Lithuanian authorities will instigate shortly. It would appear inevitable that UBIG will face an insolvency process of some sort.

...Hearts' debt to UBIG is one of UBIG's assets and, therefore, realisation of that debt will be required in order to obtain the maximum recovery possible of UBIG's debt to Ukio. Their debt will be part of the "bad" bank unless by some miracle the new bank take an assignment of the debt, but this is unlikely given the asset shortfall evident.

...There are three possible outcomes to the realisation process: (1) someone buys the debt from UBIG at a substantial discount, so Hearts will still owe the full amount to a new creditor; (2) Hearts make an offer to repay the debt at a discount - in reality, this would only be through the introduction of fresh capital - either shares or new debt; or (3) the debt cannot be sold or repaid.

...In the first scenario, there is no certainty that Hearts' new creditor will be friendly - in fact, this might be an easy way for a developer to get hold of the land without having to pay stamp duty. There would be a substantial risk of separation of the ground and the football club in this outcome.

...The outcome of the second scenario is undoubtedly the best for the continuation of the club, playing at the ground, but requires a new investor to have sufficient funds to fully satisfy the liquidator of both Ukio and UBIG (which I'm guessing could be one and the same) and provide enough working capital to see them through at least until the end of season 2013/2014, as the current owners will be seeking to repatriate as much cash as possible to Lithuania at present, PLUS the upgrading in short over of the main stand. Incidentally, I've been told by a Jambo that there are already concerns about the lifespan of other three bus shelters.

...The third scenario would almost certainly lead to the ground being sold independently of the club. The assignation of the security from UBIG to Ukio provides the means for the liquidators of the latter to go straight to this option if Hearts default on their debt. That default could be triggered by either a failure to repay as at 30th June, which we have been told is the debt review date, or through a technical trigger in the debt documentation, probably concerning a material change in their ability to satisfy the bet in full. This situation would provide the liquidators of Ukio a far cleaner sale of the property, without concerning themselves with the messy business of a football club.

...If this latter scenario plays out, the liquidator of Hearts - with substantial debts that cannot be refinanced and no major asset, the directors would almost certainly be obliged to bypass administration and go straight to liquidation, though I'm a little fuzzy on the relevant company law - would be looking to sell the intellectual property of the football club: it's name and memberships of various sporting bodies. This would be similar to Sevco and could lead to it being acquired by FoH or similar and restarting at the bottom of the pile.

If I was a Yam, and thank the Good Lord that I'm not, I would be worried. The most likely scenario is surely that there is no repayment or refinance of the debt, as no one is likely to have the sufficient resources or stupidity to meet the Lithuanian authorities' asking price, and the ground is sold from under them. Restarting in D3, at best and in whatever form, is a highly likely outcome.

[brog]

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I don't think there's any serious suggestion of that.

I think there's every possibility that when the truth finally emerges this will be seen as a major financial scandal which will dwarf anything Murray & Whyte got up to. I believe there's a real possibility of criminal charges, albeit less likely to be in this country. I have no faith in the accuracy of any accounts produced in recent years nor that any monies earned over last few years have actually ended up where they're meant to be. Who is meant to be keeping track over cash income from cake bakes etc? There's been no share certificates issued so even those numbers can't be verified. Meanwhile the Yams bend over a little further each time!!
FWIW I still can't work out what Romanov's game plan was!

[rcarter1]

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There's a fair bit of confusion about the positioning of Hearts' debt vis a vis the bank that are taking on the "good" part of Ukio Bankas, apparently on Friday. For the avoidance of doubt, this is how I see it...

...As many Yams have been quick to point out, their debt is to UBIG, a totally separate company for legal purposes, though there was undoubtedly a close commercial relationship.

...It would appear that a significant reason for Ukio's extraordinarily bad financial position was the over-extension of debt facilities, and the lax treatment of those facilities subsequently, to entities related to Vlad. One of these entities is, of course, UBIG, though there could be others.

...The implication is that there are likely to be a substantial shortfall in the potential recovery to cover UBIG's debt to Ukio, which means that it will be treated as part of "bad" bank and will be subject to the liquidation process that the Lithuanian authorities will instigate shortly. It would appear inevitable that UBIG will face an insolvency process of some sort.

...Hearts' debt to UBIG is one of UBIG's assets and, therefore, realisation of that debt will be required in order to obtain the maximum recovery possible of UBIG's debt to Ukio. Their debt will be part of the "bad" bank unless by some miracle the new bank take an assignment of the debt, but this is unlikely given the asset shortfall evident.

...There are three possible outcomes to the realisation process: (1) someone buys the debt from UBIG at a substantial discount, so Hearts will still owe the full amount to a new creditor; (2) Hearts make an offer to repay the debt at a discount - in reality, this would only be through the introduction of fresh capital - either shares or new debt; or (3) the debt cannot be sold or repaid.

...In the first scenario, there is no certainty that Hearts' new creditor will be friendly - in fact, this might be an easy way for a developer to get hold of the land without having to pay stamp duty. There would be a substantial risk of separation of the ground and the football club in this outcome.

...The outcome of the second scenario is undoubtedly the best for the continuation of the club, playing at the ground, but requires a new investor to have sufficient funds to fully satisfy the liquidator of both Ukio and UBIG (which I'm guessing could be one and the same) and provide enough working capital to see them through at least until the end of season 2013/2014, as the current owners will be seeking to repatriate as much cash as possible to Lithuania at present, PLUS the upgrading in short over of the main stand. Incidentally, I've been told by a Jambo that there are already concerns about the lifespan of other three bus shelters.

...The third scenario would almost certainly lead to the ground being sold independently of the club. The assignation of the security from UBIG to Ukio provides the means for the liquidators of the latter to go straight to this option if Hearts default on their debt. That default could be triggered by either a failure to repay as at 30th June, which we have been told is the debt review date, or through a technical trigger in the debt documentation, probably concerning a material change in their ability to satisfy the bet in full. This situation would provide the liquidators of Ukio a far cleaner sale of the property, without concerning themselves with the messy business of a football club.

...If this latter scenario plays out, the liquidator of Hearts - with substantial debts that cannot be refinanced and no major asset, the directors would almost certainly be obliged to bypass administration and go straight to liquidation, though I'm a little fuzzy on the relevant company law - would be looking to sell the intellectual property of the football club: it's name and memberships of various sporting bodies. This would be similar to Sevco and could lead to it being acquired by FoH or similar and restarting at the bottom of the pile.

If I was a Yam, and thank the Good Lord that I'm not, I would be worried. The most likely scenario is surely that there is no repayment or refinance of the debt, as no one is likely to have the sufficient resources or stupidity to meet the Lithuanian authorities' asking price, and the ground is sold from under them. Restarting in D3, at best and in whatever form, is a highly likely outcome.

AWESOME WORK..

[clerriehibs]

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I think there's every possibility that when the truth finally emerges this will be seen as a major financial scandal which will dwarf anything Murray & Whyte got up to. I believe there's a real possibility of criminal charges, albeit less likely to be in this country. I have no fai


th in the accuracy of any accounts produced in recent years nor that any monies earned over last few years have actually ended up where they're meant to be. Who is meant to be keeping track over cash income from cake bakes etc? There's been no share certificates issued so even those numbers can't be verified. Meanwhile the Yams bend over a little further each time!!
FWIW I still can't work out what Romanov's game plan was!

How angry will we be when the sfa spl decide the merricks are victims rather than peepetrators???

[brog]

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How angry will we be when the sfa spl decide the merricks are victims rather than peepetrators???

I must confess that's a worry I have but I believe whatever happens they'll be seen to have gained an advantage by these dealings so will ( hopefully ) receive appropriate punishment.

[Russell The Dug]

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There's a fair bit of confusion about the positioning of Hearts' debt vis a vis the bank that are taking on the "good" part of Ukio Bankas, apparently on Friday. For the avoidance of doubt, this is how I see it...

...As many Yams have been quick to point out, their debt is to UBIG, a totally separate company for legal purposes, though there was undoubtedly a close commercial relationship.

...It would appear that a significant reason for Ukio's extraordinarily bad financial position was the over-extension of debt facilities, and the lax treatment of those facilities subsequently, to entities related to Vlad. One of these entities is, of course, UBIG, though there could be others.

...The implication is that there are likely to be a substantial shortfall in the potential recovery to cover UBIG's debt to Ukio, which means that it will be treated as part of "bad" bank and will be subject to the liquidation process that the Lithuanian authorities will instigate shortly. It would appear inevitable that UBIG will face an insolvency process of some sort.

...Hearts' debt to UBIG is one of UBIG's assets and, therefore, realisation of that debt will be required in order to obtain the maximum recovery possible of UBIG's debt to Ukio. Their debt will be part of the "bad" bank unless by some miracle the new bank take an assignment of the debt, but this is unlikely given the asset shortfall evident.

...There are three possible outcomes to the realisation process: (1) someone buys the debt from UBIG at a substantial discount, so Hearts will still owe the full amount to a new creditor; (2) Hearts make an offer to repay the debt at a discount - in reality, this would only be through the introduction of fresh capital - either shares or new debt; or (3) the debt cannot be sold or repaid.

...In the first scenario, there is no certainty that Hearts' new creditor will be friendly - in fact, this might be an easy way for a developer to get hold of the land without having to pay stamp duty. There would be a substantial risk of separation of the ground and the football club in this outcome.

...The outcome of the second scenario is undoubtedly the best for the continuation of the club, playing at the ground, but requires a new investor to have sufficient funds to fully satisfy the liquidator of both Ukio and UBIG (which I'm guessing could be one and the same) and provide enough working capital to see them through at least until the end of season 2013/2014, as the current owners will be seeking to repatriate as much cash as possible to Lithuania at present, PLUS the upgrading in short over of the main stand. Incidentally, I've been told by a Jambo that there are already concerns about the lifespan of other three bus shelters.

...The third scenario would almost certainly lead to the ground being sold independently of the club. The assignation of the security from UBIG to Ukio provides the means for the liquidators of the latter to go straight to this option if Hearts default on their debt. That default could be triggered by either a failure to repay as at 30th June, which we have been told is the debt review date, or through a technical trigger in the debt documentation, probably concerning a material change in their ability to satisfy the bet in full. This situation would provide the liquidators of Ukio a far cleaner sale of the property, without concerning themselves with the messy business of a football club.

...If this latter scenario plays out, the liquidator of Hearts - with substantial debts that cannot be refinanced and no major asset, the directors would almost certainly be obliged to bypass administration and go straight to liquidation, though I'm a little fuzzy on the relevant company law - would be looking to sell the intellectual property of the football club: it's name and memberships of various sporting bodies. This would be similar to Sevco and could lead to it being acquired by FoH or similar and restarting at the bottom of the pile.

If I was a Yam, and thank the Good Lord that I'm not, I would be worried. The most likely scenario is surely that there is no repayment or refinance of the debt, as no one is likely to have the sufficient resources or stupidity to meet the Lithuanian authorities' asking price, and the ground is sold from under them. Restarting in D3, at best and in whatever form, is a highly likely outcome.

Please please please please....

[jgl07]

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I think there's every possibility that when the truth finally emerges this will be seen as a major financial scandal which will dwarf anything Murray & Whyte got up to. I believe there's a real possibility of criminal charges, albeit less likely to be in this country. I have no faith in the accuracy of any accounts produced in recent years nor that any monies earned over last few years have actually ended up where they're meant to be. Who is meant to be keeping track over cash income from cake bakes etc? There's been no share certificates issued so even those numbers can't be verified. Meanwhile the Yams bend over a little further each time!!
FWIW I still can't work out what Romanov's game plan was!

I think he had the idea that he could dominate Scottish Football in the way that he did with Kaunas in Lithuania. He was horrified to find that the Old Firm (and the Scottish Football Establishment) did not stand aside and allow him to do this. The reason he was so anti-OF was that he thought he should be getting away with what they were doing.

Once it transpired that his grand plan was not going to work he sort of lost interest. However he was then far too deeply involved financially to pull out. Hence the reluctant debt for equity swaps and small scale cash injections to keep the wolf from the door.

Had he sold Hearts at a knock down price that would have probably have put UBIG in jeapody since their balance sheet would have been propped up by an over-valuation of Hearts and his other property in Edinburgh. Now the game is up with UBIG that will all stop.

[Spike Mandela]

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There's a fair bit of confusion about the positioning of Hearts' debt vis a vis the bank that are taking on the "good" part of Ukio Bankas, apparently on Friday. For the avoidance of doubt, this is how I see it...

...As many Yams have been quick to point out, their debt is to UBIG, a totally separate company for legal purposes, though there was undoubtedly a close commercial relationship.

...It would appear that a significant reason for Ukio's extraordinarily bad financial position was the over-extension of debt facilities, and the lax treatment of those facilities subsequently, to entities related to Vlad. One of these entities is, of course, UBIG, though there could be others.

...The implication is that there are likely to be a substantial shortfall in the potential recovery to cover UBIG's debt to Ukio, which means that it will be treated as part of "bad" bank and will be subject to the liquidation process that the Lithuanian authorities will instigate shortly. It would appear inevitable that UBIG will face an insolvency process of some sort.

...Hearts' debt to UBIG is one of UBIG's assets and, therefore, realisation of that debt will be required in order to obtain the maximum recovery possible of UBIG's debt to Ukio. Their debt will be part of the "bad" bank unless by some miracle the new bank take an assignment of the debt, but this is unlikely given the asset shortfall evident.

...There are three possible outcomes to the realisation process: (1) someone buys the debt from UBIG at a substantial discount, so Hearts will still owe the full amount to a new creditor; (2) Hearts make an offer to repay the debt at a discount - in reality, this would only be through the introduction of fresh capital - either shares or new debt; or (3) the debt cannot be sold or repaid.

...In the first scenario, there is no certainty that Hearts' new creditor will be friendly - in fact, this might be an easy way for a developer to get hold of the land without having to pay stamp duty. There would be a substantial risk of separation of the ground and the football club in this outcome.

...The outcome of the second scenario is undoubtedly the best for the continuation of the club, playing at the ground, but requires a new investor to have sufficient funds to fully satisfy the liquidator of both Ukio and UBIG (which I'm guessing could be one and the same) and provide enough working capital to see them through at least until the end of season 2013/2014, as the current owners will be seeking to repatriate as much cash as possible to Lithuania at present, PLUS the upgrading in short over of the main stand. Incidentally, I've been told by a Jambo that there are already concerns about the lifespan of other three bus shelters.

...The third scenario would almost certainly lead to the ground being sold independently of the club. The assignation of the security from UBIG to Ukio provides the means for the liquidators of the latter to go straight to this option if Hearts default on their debt. That default could be triggered by either a failure to repay as at 30th June, which we have been told is the debt review date, or through a technical trigger in the debt documentation, probably concerning a material change in their ability to satisfy the bet in full. This situation would provide the liquidators of Ukio a far cleaner sale of the property, without concerning themselves with the messy business of a football club.

...If this latter scenario plays out, the liquidator of Hearts - with substantial debts that cannot be refinanced and no major asset, the directors would almost certainly be obliged to bypass administration and go straight to liquidation, though I'm a little fuzzy on the relevant company law - would be looking to sell the intellectual property of the football club: it's name and memberships of various sporting bodies. This would be similar to Sevco and could lead to it being acquired by FoH or similar and restarting at the bottom of the pile.

If I was a Yam, and thank the Good Lord that I'm not, I would be worried. The most likely scenario is surely that there is no repayment or refinance of the debt, as no one is likely to have the sufficient resources or stupidity to meet the Lithuanian authorities' asking price, and the ground is sold from under them. Restarting in D3, at best and in whatever form, is a highly likely outcome.

If any new owners of a phoenix Hearts could keep hold of the stadium, and with league reconstruction to 3 leagues in the pipeline, then two years in lower leagues would probably be considered a price worth paying by most Hearts supporters for the two cups (hopefully not 3) and the relative success they have had compared to other clubs in the Vlad years imo.

[EdinMike]

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If any new owners of a phoenix Hearts could keep hold of the stadium, and with league reconstruction to 3 leagues in the pipeline, then two years in lower leagues would probably be considered a price worth paying by most Hearts supporters for the two cups (hopefully not 3) and the relative success they have had compared to other clubs in the Vlad years imo.

Thing is, I don't think Hearts will get the same treatment as Rangers did. If it goes balls to the walls for them I reckon it'll be a Gretna scenario.

And I then think it should be Spartans turn to show everyone how a "Proper 2 team City" Works

[Russell The Dug]

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Thing is, I don't think Hearts will get the same treatment as Rangers did. If it goes balls to the walls for them I reckon it'll be a Gretna scenario.

And I then think it should be Spartans turn to show everyone how a "Proper 2 team City" Works

TV demanded Rangers get back in. They also had Ibrox and Murray Park.

Hearts will have sod all and TV won't give a ****. Can't see them being allowed back in either

[MB62]

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If any new owners of a phoenix Hearts could keep hold of the stadium, and with league reconstruction to 3 leagues in the pipeline, then two years in lower leagues would probably be considered a price worth paying by most Hearts supporters for the two cups (hopefully not 3) and the relative success they have had compared to other clubs in the Vlad years imo.

You seem confident the Yams would be good enough to gain such promotions?

[Spike Mandela]

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You seem confident the Yams would be good enough to gain such promotions?

Even if it takes longer MB I still think that if a phoenix Hearts can pull off a financial scam like Sevco managed then the average Hearts supporter will be satisfied with how it turned out. Retaining the 'good' assets like sevco managed will be key.

[Smidge]

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If any new owners of a phoenix Hearts could keep hold of the stadium, and with league reconstruction to 3 leagues in the pipeline, then two years in lower leagues would probably be considered a price worth paying by most Hearts supporters for the two cups (hopefully not 3) and the relative success they have had compared to other clubs in the Vlad years imo.

I just cannot see any new owner having sufficient resources to buy, the club, the stadium and provide working capital until the end of 2013/2014, let alone finance to address the urgent issues with the stadium. If Hearts fans have any sense (!!!), then they'll prioritise survival of the club over keeping them playing at the PBS. The potential recovery from separating the land from the club has to be greater than selling as a package, as it should have been with Sevco. There will be no kindly administrators here, the liquidators of Ukio/UBIG will need to get the best possible return.

[Dashing Bob S]

I've been baying for the Yams demise for some time now, but it's strange, I've come round to Hearts supporters way of thinking and I'm now totally relaxed about it.

There is absolutely nothing to worry about.







Swift and ruthless.

[jonty]

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I've been baying for the Yams demise for some time now, but it's strange, I've come round to Hearts supporters way of thinking and I'm now totally relaxed about it.

There is absolutely nothing to worry about.







Swift and ruthless.

Sorry Bob, had sand in my ears. Worry about what?

[Sergey]

Just a thought - but those new shares that raised £1M that the fans bought, would said fans now also be liable for part of the debt if an administrator is called in?

[green glory]

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Just a thought - but those new shares that raised £1M that the fans bought, would said fans now also be liable for part of the debt if an administrator is called in?

As owners of 10% of the club I think I would assume so. Obviously Vlad being the majority shareholder would be liable for the majority of the debt though. Will still be a tidy sum though.

[Ozyhibby]

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Just a thought - but those new shares that raised £1M that the fans bought, would said fans now also be liable for part of the debt if an administrator is called in?

It's a PLC so there would be no personal liability even if they were real shares. And they only sold 5% of the fake shares.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Just a thought - but those new shares that raised £1M that the fans bought, would said fans now also be liable for part of the debt if an administrator is called in?

No, under certain circumstances directors can be held liable but not common or garden shareholders.

[Gus Fring]

STV are having a live interview on their website with Alex Mackie of FOH and Bryan Bradley, the Bloomberg reporter along with a couple of fans.

Have to give credit to Alex Mackie, he doesn't come across as your typical yam and is actually making some sense. Say's theyve done proper valuation of Tynecastle and it was "in the low millions" and that the current playing squad isn't worth anything. He gives the impression that Fedotovas is grossly over valuing the club. He also says it's difficult for anyone to make any serious offers without a set of accounts

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...ancial-future/

[Ozyhibby]

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STV are having a live interview on their website with Alex Mackie of FOH and Bryan Bradley, the Bloomberg reporter along with a couple of fans.

Have to give credit to Alex Mackie, he doesn't come across as your typical yam and is actually making some sense. Say's theyve done proper valuation of Tynecastle and it was "in the low millions" and that the current playing squad isn't worth anything. He gives the impression that Fedotovas is grossly over valuing the club. He also says it's difficult for anyone to make any serious offers without a set of accounts

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...ancial-future/

Hardly a shock that a man wanting buy something says it's worth very little and the man selling says it's worth loads.
Problem for FOH is that Vlad can't sell Hearts unless he give Ukio Bank £6.8m.