Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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Surely the liquidators will be pursuing all these loans for repayment. I mean, these are assets that oldco need to try and settle with creditors, right?

Nope, don't think so.

The loans came from the Trusts, which were independent of RFC. Initially, that's where any repayments would go.

That said, one would need to know the terms of each Trust to say what happened after that. Does the money sit in the Trust forever, or is it distributed amongst whoever at the behest of the Trustees?

From the liquidators' point of view, though, I don't see them as being assets of RFC

[Deeklipse]

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Debt does not go away if you have assets

Never understood why Rangers weren't forced to sell off Ibrox and Murray Park.

[Finbar]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-20612863



Given that Duff and Phelps sold it for £5.5m and they expect the total value of the club to be £50m after a £27m share issue... that needs a little explaining.

I'm not sure how 5.5+27=50, that does need some explaining. But I do know that £27m is exactly the amount that Old Rangers owed to Ticketus.

Just a thought, probably way off the mark but, £17m of investment could be a Romanov-esque debt for equity deal so that Ticketus own £17m worth of shares. The fans buy £10m worth of shares, raises a bit of capital, enabling the new Rangers to pay off the balance of the debt they don't owe to Ticketus.

Like I say, just a thought, I mean it would be silly to think that new Rangers would be paying off debts from the old Rangers, wouldn't it.


It's a bit like instead of the club being worth nothing and £50m in debt, now they're worth £50m with no debt!? I think.

[LioNeilMessi]

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Never understood why Rangers weren't forced to sell off Ibrox and Murray Park.

They did.. to CG for what, £5.5m? Why no-one challenged this tiny price tag is way beyond me. Sort of property should be worth in £20m plus I would of thought

[johnrebus]

Surely there must be a way to cut through all of this ****.


Or do these, 'Trusts', sit outside the laws which apply to normal people?


If they were loans then when are they due to be paid back? It is all so vague and obtuse, yet the MSM, as usual, refrain from asking the awkward questions.

If they were loans then they should be paid back to the Trust who should then pay the money back to Oldco, for the benefit of the creditors.


What is so difficult about that?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Surely there must be a way to cut through all of this ****.


Or do these, 'Trusts', sit outside the laws which apply to normal people?


If they were loans then when are they due to be paid back? It is all so vague and obtuse, yet the MSM, as usual, refrain from asking the awkward questions.

If they were loans then they should be paid back to the Trust who should then pay the money back to Oldco, for the benefit of the creditors.


What is so difficult about that?

... because they weren't loans from RFC. They were contributions to the Trust; payments for services, in the same way as paying the phone bill would be.

[Geo_1875]

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... because they weren't loans from RFC. They were contributions to the Trust; payments for services, in the same way as paying the phone bill would be.

That's as may be, but when the "service" is tax avoidance there must be some comeback.

[CropleyWasGod]

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That's as may be, but when the "service" is tax avoidance there must be some comeback.

That service has been found by the FTTT to have been legitimate, at least in the most part. Those situations where they established that there was tax evasion will be paid for by RFC. On the other ones, the loans, there is no comeback.

If the appeal by HMRC succeeds, then the whole idea of loans will be overturned. Nothing will be repayable by the loanees. There will be a small amount due to HMRC, but they will have won their case, in preparation for the other cases that are coming up.

[inglisavhibs]

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Never understood why Rangers weren't forced to sell off Ibrox and Murray Park.

Ibrox is worthless unless used as a football stadium. Murray Park was transferred to some other company before the s--- hit the fan.
The tax man should still have taken Ibrox though and leased it back to SEVCO. That way at least the taxpayer would have got some money back. The land at Tynie plus the school is currently worth about £8m but that would increase if the North British Distillery was to announce a move. This sale is Vlad's only way of getting out of Hearts without losing all of the £24m of debt (last accounts but probably more now).

[Winston Ingram]

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They did.. to CG for what, £5.5m? Why no-one challenged this tiny price tag is way beyond me. Sort of property should be worth in £20m plus I would of thought

It was actually £2.3m for Ibrox, the Car Park and the Training ground. The rest was for player registrations and any other assets.

I'm absolutely stumped how the figure has not been challenged

[CropleyWasGod]

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Ibrox is worthless unless used as a football stadium. Murray Park was transferred to some other company before the s--- hit the fan.
The tax man should still have taken Ibrox though and leased it back to SEVCO. That way at least the taxpayer would have got some money back. The land at Tynie plus the school is currently worth about £8m but that would increase if the North British Distillery was to announce a move. This sale is Vlad's only way of getting out of Hearts without losing all of the £24m of debt (last accounts but probably more now).

HMRC have no powers to do so. Indeed, that would have been discriminatory against all other creditors.

And, you're wrong about Murray Park. it was transferred to Sevco.

[CropleyWasGod]

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It was actually £2.3m for Ibrox, the Car Park and the Training ground. The rest was for player registrations and any other assets.

I'm absolutely stumped how the figure has not been challenged

We don't know whether it has been challenged. BDO will be working away and, if they think it appropriate, they will challenge it.

[PatHead]

Notice that Octopus EIS tranche which involved Rangers ticket sales has matured and they have indicated a further payment may follow after outstanding court action

[YehButNoBut]

Noticed that Rangers released a statement today saying that any proceeds they do get from the Dundee Utd cup tie will be donated to charity.

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...-cup-statement

CHARLES GREEN and the Board of Rangers Football Club has noted speculation regarding possible outcomes of gate distribution as a result of Rangers' decision not to take tickets for the Scottish Cup match against Dundee United at Tannadice.

The chief executive said: “The Club was contacted by Dundee United requesting us to waive our rights to the share of the gate under Cup Competition Rule 46(c), this was declined.

"It has been decided by the board that any proceeds from gate receipts due to the Club will be donated to the Prince and Princess of Wales Hospice Brick by Brick Appeal and Erskine charities via the Rangers Charity Foundation.”

[lapsedhibee]

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Noticed that Rangers released a statement today saying that any proceeds they do get from the Dundee Utd cup tie will be donated to charity.

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...-cup-statement

CHARLES GREEN and the Board of Rangers Football Club has noted speculation regarding possible outcomes of gate distribution as a result of Rangers' decision not to take tickets for the Scottish Cup match against Dundee United at Tannadice.

The chief executive said: “The Club was contacted by Dundee United requesting us to waive our rights to the share of the gate under Cup Competition Rule 46(c), this was declined.

"It has been decided by the board that any proceeds from gate receipts due to the Club will be donated to the Prince and Princess of Wales Hospice Brick by Brick Appeal and Erskine charities via the Rangers Charity Foundation.”

That's The Rangers, always keen to do the morally upstanding thing.

[madabouthibs]

Dont Rangers have history regarding charities?

[Caversham Green]

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That's The Rangers, always keen to do the morally upstanding thing.

They even manage to make charitable donations look sleazy.

I hope United counter by saying 20% of match taking will go to charity if Sevco waive their share - at least I trust United to go through with it.

[jonty]

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Dont Rangers have history regarding charities?

The Rangers have no history. Fact

[greenginger]

Are Dundee Utd not still due money from old Hun from a fixture last season and are refusing to pay it because Green has some letter from the SFA/SPL saying they were going to pay it out of sums due the bankrupt club. This never happened, and Green refuses to consider this sum as part of the SFA license transfer.

Now if the SFA instruct United to pay the money due out of Ranger's share of the gate, Green will scream long and loud about depriving Charities.

If they get through they should be kicked out of the competition, if they get beat they should be banned from next years.

I wonder what Green's plans are in event of a Draw and replay. Will they boycott this game too ?

[Moulin Yarns]

For Green Ginger. Yes about £35k for cup game

[nairn hibee]

Daily record had a big pullout today ,celebrating 140 years of rangers.i thought they died before their 140th year,whts that about or am i wrong

[Saorsa]

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Daily record had a big pullout today ,celebrating 140 years of rangers.i thought they died before their 140th year,whts that about or am i wrong

They're deid tae everybody except their deluded selves and their lackies at daily bog roll. The corpse has been buried but the tramps stole the funeral suit and are wearing it.

[Keith_M]

You're really surprised that the Daily ****** are pandering to NewHun and it's fans?

Who cares about logic when there's print to sell.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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Daily record had a big pullout today ,celebrating 140 years of rangers.i thought they died before their 140th year,whts that about or am i wrong

Obviously the Record has conveniently overlooked the fact that Oldco was liquidated, and a Newco was set up.........Totally expected from that weegie rag, massaging the hordes of huns...........

[Hibercelona]

What they actually mean to say is:

"140 years of racism, sectarianism, satanism and any other forms of bile/bigotry that you could possibly think of".

They just say "Rangers" for short...

[Pretty Boy]

140 days surely?

[SurferRosa]

They also had an 8 page pullout on Celtic yesterday so the natural balance must be restored. 8 pages for the smellies so there has to be 8 pages for SevCo. What one gets the other has to have as well. They pander to both sets of bigots.

[Hibs Class]

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Daily record had a big pullout today ,celebrating 140 years of rangers.i thought they died before their 140th year,whts that about or am i wrong

A lie's a lie for a' that.

[LeighLoyal]

The ****** is so shameless. Traynor is just changing offices and making his Sevco PR official, Keevins should do likewise - if he isn't on the payroll already. As far as them being the same club.... If they are they owe 60m to creditors, and an EBT tax liability of 90m if justice is served by the appeal. Same club my ***e

[Hibernia Na Eir]

horrid club with horrid traditions. 140 years of suffering for everyone else.