Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Spike Mandela]

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Just got me thinking, the outstanding Tax Bill means definitely no European Football for the Yams for the next 3 years.

Why

[Devilstorment]

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That statement sounds like a man who just narrowly dodged a bullit but has just spotted the guillotine coming dropping down inches from his head, and there's no nail in the wood to stop it.

Thats some metaphor!! and you dont get statements like that everyday!

[greenginger]

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Why

No European license if a club has outstanding tax debts. Part of football fair play regulations, I think.

[Sergey]

An excellent post that I've unashamedly copied from over the road.

A Yam Smells The Coffee

It is all very well Serge praising us for what has been a remarkable response, but more than platitudes are required. Prior to the winding up order bombshell, we were previously led to believe that the reason for David Templeton,s departure was an attitude problem. Ryan McGowan would have followed had he not elected to put his international career but they erroneously suggested they were happy the deal fell through. I looked through the share offer document at the Ross County game, and it clearly stated the reasons for, and the proceeds of the offer were youth development and day to day working capital as and when required.There is no way monies raised will be allocated to youth development and effectively we have, and will continue to bail out the business.We all know there is a big hole in the balance sheet but for sometime now the custodians have been less than forthcoming.Now more than ever we deserve nothing less than full transparency. Financial indiscipline and bad management normally spell the end for most organisations and it is about time the owners take cognisance of the peculiar circumstances that see minority shareholders/ ordinary punters effectively discharging the club liabilities.It is now beyond even a tacit acknowledgement of insolvency and the proposed share issue ridiculously over values the club.Are or will future begging bowl receipts be utilised for debt servicing purposes which fall into the working capital requirement category.


It is time to come clean in relation to the valuation price which in their current plight can hardly be more than 5 - 6 million pounds. Forget the nonsense of accrued debt which has no bearing on current valuation. I have my own small business and if I decided to chuck generated income out the window I could hardly use that as a mitigating factor in its subsequent failure, and then somehow justify seeking quasi compensation from my customer base. The brand intangible value argument from Serge is becoming monotonous as they are now unable to manage brand development and with Scottish Football in disarray the perception value is at an all time low.

[At The Edge]

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An excellent post that I've unashamedly copied from over the road.

Has he been called a Hobo yet and plenty of 5-1 quotes been thrown about?

[Hibernia Na Eir]

more than anything, they are completely and utterly skint now. not a penny to their name.

let's see how they cope now :)

[#FromTheCapital]

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No European license if a club has outstanding tax debts. Part of football fair play regulations, I think.

About as effective as their transfer ban until the window opens then because they won't be getting anywhere near Europe anytime soon :-D

[Geo_1875]

I notice he admits they're in deep **** but still manages to get a dig in that the rest of Scottish Football is in disarray.

Naw we're no ya fanny.

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20602141

[Kato]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20602141

jettison personnel

I want to see Vlad use the torpedo tubes.

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20602141

Spot the inconsistency in this statement:-

The club's share issue will hand over 10% of owner Vladimir Romanov's controlling interest, with the scheme due to run until 19 December.

"We are still in progress with our share issue and that is designed to create stability," added Fedotovas in a bid to drum up further support.

"It is very important for us to achieve the target of selling the shares to our supporters.


"Unless that is achieved, again we will be in the position where it is difficult to meet certain payments from time to time." ."

[greenflyer]

"Eventually they couldn't carry on spinning all the plates and it would come crashing down.

Suspect Hearts are in this position as they add another wobbly plate to the show..............................tick,tock"



It's the Wonga way.

[PapillonVert]

Just coming back to the deal they've made with HMRC, I wonder if HMRC would make the deal conditional upon HFC agreeing to meet its on-going PAYE, NI, VAT payments on time in future otherwise HMRC could move for immediate payment of the outstanding sums?

Does anyone have any inside info. on whether the Big Team has been obliged to agree any conditions attached to the deal?
Or does anyone with experience of dealing with HMRC know if this is a standard approach to agreeing these deals?

Otherwise, you could imagine them continuing to flout their obligations by failing to pay their tax bill when it falls due and force HMRC to file yet another Winding-up Petition to try and get the money. Easier IMO to make the deal conditional on meeting their future obligations rather than continue with the same merry-go-round of non-payment, petitions and then payments made just before the case comes up to Court.

[GloryGlory]

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Just coming back to the deal they've made with HMRC, I wonder if HMRC would make the deal conditional upon HFC agreeing to meet its on-going PAYE, NI, VAT payments on time in future otherwise HMRC could move for immediate payment of the outstanding sums?

Does anyone have any inside info. on whether the Big Team has been obliged to agree any conditions attached to the deal?
Or does anyone with experience of dealing with HMRC know if this is a standard approach to agreeing these deals?

Otherwise, you could imagine them continuing to flout their obligations by failing to pay their tax bill when it falls due and force HMRC to file yet another Winding-up Petition to try and get the money. Easier IMO to make the deal conditional on meeting their future obligations rather than continue with the same merry-go-round of non-payment, petitions and then payments made just before the case comes up to Court.

I would imagine that a failure to meet agreed payments will attract a penalty notice from HMRC, which can be 100% of the tax due. HMRC can also increase the rate of interest charged on overdue tax, IIRC. So, a potential double whammy.

[greenginger]

The financial shambles at the PBS must down to living in a Walter Mitty World.

In the last close season did nobody do a financial forecast of income and expenditure and realise the money would run out before the season was half way through. Instead of releasing or moving on every player possible they actually added 4 to their total in August.

That they are alive today is down to some large slices of luck rather than any thought out plan.

If Rangers had got their CVA their would have been no £ 1 million from the Huns just 5 pence in the pound and the SFA would have no leverage to make Rangers make up the difference to football creditors. The money for the Templeton transfer which probably saved them on Monday came from a deal struck minutes before the close of the transfer window and could just as easy have been missed.

The Yams have definitely dodged a few bullets but their luck must run out very soon as they still don,t have any notion of a financial plan.

[JeMeSouviens]

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The financial shambles at the PBS must down to living in a Walter Mitty World.

In the last close season did nobody do a financial forecast of income and expenditure and realise the money would run out before the season was half way through. Instead of releasing or moving on every player possible they actually added 4 to their total in August.

That they are alive today is down to some large slices of luck rather than any thought out plan.

If Rangers had got their CVA their would have been no £ 1 million from the Huns just 5 pence in the pound and the SFA would have no leverage to make Rangers make up the difference to football creditors. The money for the Templeton transfer which probably saved them on Monday came from a deal struck minutes before the close of the transfer window and could just as easy have been missed.

The Yams have definitely dodged a few bullets but their luck must run out very soon as they still don,t have any notion of a financial plan.

Drawing Liverpool in Europe and us in the cup is another 2 windfalls they can't have budgeted for. You would imagine the following is just bluster for the brain dead but even Yams must be starting to think Fedotovas is taking the piss:

"Results this season show that the team needs attention and we need to strengthen that aspect of our business.

"But if we are short, if we don't reach the magic number, it will be enormously difficult to find additional revenue to bring new players to the club and we will need to address our cost base."

[mjhibby]

They really are the most deluded bunch of muppets that ever supported a football club.They seem to believe anything they are told on their website even if two days later that has seen to be utter balderdash.There has never been a figure put on actual shares bought so the hertz fans have no idea how much they have raised.The so called full house against celtic was 2,000 short of that and actually was the same attendance as last year so none of the mythical £80.000 was made.They will now face dons and will probably have 2,000 more fans than last season so again way short of what they have said.They are actually saying on sickbag that the £500,000 they are having to pay the taxman over the next 3 seasons is a good result even though their board said they would robustly defend their position.The money they are due for wallace will cover the first one but the next two seasons sees them facing another £500,000 bill and with a euro run highly unlikely they are going to struggle big time.
The biggest flaw in fedotovas waffling is the fact they are most likely to miss out on the top six and with a drop of income from the spl of maybe half a million plus lower gates after the split and the loss of reulting tv money could mean that all the money the hertz fans have put in could be swallowed up by the loss from them not making the top six. Im sure they will struggle on but unless a sugar daddy comes along or they go into administration the future looks bleak for them.What a shambles and a joke of a club they really are.

[PatHead]

A good Ramsdens Cup run would help them next year.

[JimBHibees]

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Just coming back to the deal they've made with HMRC, I wonder if HMRC would make the deal conditional upon HFC agreeing to meet its on-going PAYE, NI, VAT payments on time in future otherwise HMRC could move for immediate payment of the outstanding sums?

Does anyone have any inside info. on whether the Big Team has been obliged to agree any conditions attached to the deal?
Or does anyone with experience of dealing with HMRC know if this is a standard approach to agreeing these deals?

Otherwise, you could imagine them continuing to flout their obligations by failing to pay their tax bill when it falls due and force HMRC to file yet another Winding-up Petition to try and get the money. Easier IMO to make the deal conditional on meeting their future obligations rather than continue with the same merry-go-round of non-payment, petitions and then payments made just before the case comes up to Court.

I would be amazed if that wasnt the case.

[YehButNoBut]

Serge is rattling the collection tin again

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...-met-1-2675686

Hearts admit staff face the axe if £2m shortfall isn’t met

HEARTS director Sergejus 
Fedotovas today warned that the club may have to cut staff in order to keep the club in business.

Fedotovas admitted that there is a real possibility of job losses in January if the Tynecastle side cannot cover the predicted shortfall of £2 million for the season. The club announced yesterday that an agreement has been reached with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs over their outstanding £1.75m tax case that will allow Hearts to pay a reduced amount of £1.5m – £1.2m in tax and National Insurance, plus £300,000 in interest – back over three years.

The two parties reached a compromise agreement over unpaid tax relating to players loaned from the Lithuanian club FBK 
Kaunas between 2005 and 2010.

The instalments will be monthly, starting in May of next year. In addition to that matter 
being resolved, Hearts earlier in the week also settled a previously outstanding £450,000 VAT and PAYE bill and Fedotovas has insisted that there are now no more tax-related issues to deal with.

Hearts are believed to have raised almost £1m so far through their share issue and other avenues and Fedotovas is hopeful that they will reach the desired £2m mark.

He stressed, however, that the club still needs supporters to back the club financially if they are to avoid losing a number of staff – both on and off the pitch – come the turn of the year.

The share issue scheme runs only until December 19, and, asked about the threat of job losses if they fall short, he said: “This is a possibility. If that’s what’s required to keep the club in business, we will be forced to do that. We are somewhere halfway through addressing the funding gap.”
Hearts are ninth in the Scottish Premier League and were knocked out of the William Hill Scottish Cup on Sunday by Hibs. However, they are in the semi-finals of the Scottish Communities League Cup.

“The share issue is designed to create stability and it is important to achieve the targets we have set,” Fedotovas added on the club’s official website.

“Unless these targets are hit, we forecast there will be further battles ahead when it comes to timely payment of bills.

“There is no reasonable expectation that we can bring significantly more revenue to the club at this moment.”

[PapillonVert]

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I would be amazed if that wasnt the case.

So would I, Jim, but it never ceases to amaze me the number of times govt. departments FAIL to protect the taxpayer and public interest and end up entering into deals and contracts which even a totally incompetent contracts manager in the private sector wouldn't dream of signing up for!

NHS computer system? Defence? PFI? West coast railway line?

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Serge is rattling the collection tin again

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...-met-1-2675686

“Unless these targets are hit, we forecast there will be further battles ahead when it comes to timely payment of bills.

“There is no reasonable expectation that we can bring significantly more revenue to the club at this moment.”

Getting the excuses in now for when the next unpaid debt case is called in Court! It'll be all the fault of the fans.

How can anyone enter into a contract with this lot with any degree of confidence?

[Keith_M]

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.............. I wonder if HMRC would make the deal conditional upon HFC agreeing to meet its on-going PAYE, NI, VAT payments on time in future otherwise HMRC could move for immediate payment of the outstanding sums?..................

Why should Hibs have to pay their debts?

[lapsedhibee]

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So would I, Jim, but it never ceases to amaze me the number of times govt. departments FAIL to protect the taxpayer and public interest and end up entering into deals and contracts which even a totally incompetent contracts manager in the private sector wouldn't dream of signing up for!

NHS computer system? Defence? PFI? West coast railway line?

Hector has just made it clear, by entering into a three-year instalment plan with the yams, that he doesn't want HOMFC to cease to be. Why then would he insist on introducing conditions which if not met would bring about the immediate demise of HOMFC?

[PapillonVert]

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Hector has just made it clear, by entering into a three-year instalment plan with the yams, that he doesn't want HOMFC to cease to be. Why then would he insist on introducing conditions which if not met would bring about the immediate demise of HOMFC?

Because, like most creditors who enter into agreements with debtors, there's only so much you can take or be expected to take before you reach the conclusion that you're flogging the metaphorical dead horse and it's better to cut your losses and put the said moribund creature out of its misery and pack it off to the knacker's yard.

In other words, nothing will ultimately be achieved by HMRC agreeing to keep HFC going if HFC only continues to run up debts by not paying the taxes it is due.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Because, like most creditors who enter into agreements with debtors, there's only so much you can take or be expected to take before you reach the conclusion that you're flogging the metaphorical dead horse and it's better to cut your losses and put the said moribund creature out of its misery and pack it off to the knacker's yard.

In other words, nothing will ultimately be achieved by HMRC agreeing to keep HFC going if HFC only continues to run up debts by not paying the taxes it is due.

However, HMRC's recent tactics have resulted in HMFC paying their PAYE and VAT. In that respect, they have been a success.

[lapsedhibee]

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Because, like most creditors who enter into agreements with debtors, there's only so much you can take or be expected to take before you reach the conclusion that you're flogging the metaphorical dead horse and it's better to cut your losses and put the said moribund creature out of its misery and pack it off to the knacker's yard.

In other words, nothing will ultimately be achieved by HMRC agreeing to keep HFC going if HFC only continues to run up debts by not paying the taxes it is due.

Yes but HOMFC do have money coming in, and the prospect of £500k for Wallace - even if it's not enough to pay taxes on time, or in full, the longer HOMFC lasts the more tax is likely to be collected. So it wouldn't make sense - on the basis that half a loaf is better than no tax - for HMRC to pull the plug anytime soon just because HOMFC didn't pay a particular PAYE or NIC or VAT bill on time.

[PapillonVert]

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However, HMRC's recent tactics have resulted in HMFC paying their PAYE and VAT. In that respect, they have been a success.

Fine, let's hope they continue to do so.

[Mikey]

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“The share issue is designed to create stability and it is important to achieve the targets we have set,” Fedotovas added on the club’s official website.

“Unless these targets are hit, we forecast there will be further battles ahead when it comes to timely payment of bills.

That's not even remotely close to what was said about the share issue when it was launched a few weeks ago. Where's the financial backing for youth development now ya plum?

We might as well ask the question as Hearts fans and the press won't

[EH6 Hibby]

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Yes but HOMFC do have money coming in, and the prospect of £500k for Wallace - even if it's not enough to pay taxes on time, or in full, the longer HOMFC lasts the more tax is likely to be collected. So it wouldn't make sense - on the basis that half a loaf is better than no tax - for HMRC to pull the plug anytime soon just because HOMFC didn't pay a particular PAYE or NIC or VAT bill on time.

Or the more money they will continue to take in without paying the Vat or the PAYE and NIC on wages paid out.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Fine, let's hope they continue to do so.

It's not that common for HMRC to take legal action for debts that are as "recent" as Hearts'. In that light, they really are keeping them on a tight leash, and Hearts will know that. If they slip behind again, they know what will happen.

Bear in mind, too, that Hearts will also be liable for interest and penalties on the late amounts.

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That's not even remotely close to what was said about the share issue when it was launched a few weeks ago. Where's the financial backing for youth development now ya plum?

We might as well ask the question as Hearts fans and the press won't

The BBC are still telling us it's Vlad's shares they're buying.