Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[inglisavhibs]

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Do they not combine both semi gates and final gate. Then split the profit.

They may well split the semi gates but the final stands alone. Let's hope they don't get there.

[CropleyWasGod]

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But why would it? Now that Hector has indicated that he is willing to bend to the argument that the prospect of some money is always better than none, there can shirley never be a point when it is better to liquidise than to allow to continue intermittently defaulting. It's not as if Hector is going to reach a point when he simply won't stand for HOMFC taking the pish, because that's what they've already been doing for long enough.

I suspect that there will be another winding-up application soon.

October's PAYE is, apparently, late. November's is due soon, albeit at reduced amounts. December's, if it includes the deferred wages being paid up, will be due in January and it will be a big one. There will be a VAT bill due in early January too.

[lapsedhibee]

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I suspect that there will be another winding-up application soon.

Does the fact that HOMFC know that Hector doesn't actually want them wound up not reduce the force of these applications somewhat? To something like a very tedious dance?

[Billy Whizz]

I would have thought they would be doing deals to move players on from 1st January, as they can't afford to pay them on January, and will need to move them at the start, rather than the end of the window

[Mr White]

So would it be more or less fair to say that both deep throat and Disney swallow were correct with their most recent leaks?

[KeithTheHibby]

I cannot stand these tossers as much as the next person and ask me a few months ago would have said let them die as soon as possible....however after witnessing their off the field problems coupled with the issues they shall face over the next few years has forced me to change my mind.

Watching the game on Sunday we were utter gash in every sense. We can and have played better, our league form and position tells you this. We still beat them though and kept a clean sheet.
They on the other hand played as well as they could given the limited squad they have. No strikers, young lads all over the park and a team generally held together and built on their defence. Come January i would expect to see any player of worth to be sold and replaced by an inferior player or youngster thus weakening the team.
A team incidentally managed by a completely and utterly inept moron who is out of his depth. The best of it though? They cannot afford to sack him. Vlad has emptied managers for far less.
So what do we have left? Terrible manager, fire sale impending and a precarious league position with no signs of improvement.

Watching the next 6 months or 6 years unfold will be far more interesting and funny than watching them disappear entirely.

[StevieC]

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4. Paying that first instalment in May will take a huge chunk out of next seasons ST money

Next seasons ST money (March/April?) will be long gone by the time May comes around, they'll need it all just to complete this season.

[PatHead]

Used to work in a bank years ago. The amount of businesses I saw that were struggling was incredible. Many of them were good guys that just hadn't adapted to change, many that had just grown too quickley and weren't able to keep it going and some had been bumped by someone who had done the dirty on them. Each month they would be robbing Peter to pay Paul as the business "would be back to normal" soon. For many businesses they held on far too long and just hurt themselves and their families all the more.

Eventually they couldn't carry on spinning all the plates and it would come crashing down.

Suspect Hearts are in this position as they add another wobbly plate to the show..............................tick,tock

(Personally I want it to happen sooner rather than later though.)

[greenginger]

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Next seasons ST money (March/April?) will be long gone by the time May comes around, they'll need it all just to complete this season.

3 year season ticket deals anyone ? 5 year, any advances , lifetime including your children. Opportunities unlimited to con the gullable.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Does the fact that HOMFC know that Hector doesn't actually want them wound up not reduce the force of these applications somewhat? To something like a very tedious dance?

Not at all. It's a common credit-control tool that Government departments and businesses use.

Thus far, they have always worked in that Hearts have paid up.

[greenginger]

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I suspect that there will be another winding-up application soon.

October's PAYE is, apparently, late. November's is due soon, albeit at reduced amounts. December's, if it includes the deferred wages being paid up, will be due in January. There will be a VAT bill due in early January too.

And I would imagine " giving fatigue " will be setting in very shortly down at the PBS !

[The Harp]

Are they now going to reimburse the kids who tore up their Christmas lists to keep them afloat?
This club really is below contempt. Don't imagine for one minute we've heard the last of their begging-bowl antics.

[calumhibee1]

So they can't afford the players they already have yet there going to have another 10k a week to pay out for the next 3 years? If they're serious about cutting back then this news should surely mean losing an extra 4 or 5 on top of what was originally planned. Aye jambos, that's great news.

[Sergey]

Time to act

04.12.2012

The sterling efforts of the Hearts supporters have seen the club reduce its projected deficit of £2million between now and the end of the season by almost 50 per cent, director Sergejus Fedotovas revealed today.

The Gorgie faithful's response to the 2012 Share Issue has helped Heart of Midlothian stave off a recent threat of liquidation. Fans have until Wednesday, December 19 to continue to purchase shares and Sergejus revealed that, despite the amount of work already done, the volume of business over the next two weeks remains critical to the club's financial stability as it heads into 2013.
Speaking to Hearts News, he said: "Words cannot express how grateful we are to those people who have already contributed to the share scheme. Their sacrifices in difficult times have been appreciated by everyone.
"But with just two weeks now remaining to buy shares, time is running out. The Share Issue is designed to create stability and it is important to achieve the targets we have set.
"We would urge those supporters, and particularly those in the corporate sector, to act now if they have not done so already. Much work lies ahead and the window of opportunity for supporters to play their part is closing quickly.
"Unless these targets are hit, going forward we forecast that there will be further battles ahead when it comes to timely payment of bills.
"In this scenario, we will be forced again to look at what we can do with our cost base as all revenue streams are sweating at the moment and there is no reasonable expectation that we can bring significantly more revenue to the club at this moment."
The club was pleased with the resolution to the tax tribunal, which was announced on the club website earlier today.
And Sergejus expressed his hope that this latest settlement with HMRC will encourage previously hesitant fans to participate in the Share Issue.
He said: "The resolution of this dispute gives us a positive nod to expect that those supporters who were wary of the immediate effect on the club of the tax case can now step forward in confidence.
"We are keeping our promise to keep this club alive and we have the results - the petition was agreed and paid, the tax case is resolved.
"It is good to know that we are not alone in our ambitions but we need more involvement as we are in far from good shape and the recent Scottish Cup result is the best evidence of this.
"Now, more than ever before, is the time for our fans everywhere to stand up and be counted."

There's plenty for them to be worried about after reading that!

[Caversham Green]

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There's plenty for them to be worried about after reading that!

Yep. Five weeks in, two to go and they're less than halfway there. And it was always going to be front-heavy.

[MB62]

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There's plenty for them to be worried about after reading that!

That statement sounds like a man who just narrowly dodged a bullit but has just spotted the guillotine coming dropping down inches from his head, and there's no nail in the wood to stop it.

[Hibrandenburg]

**** it! This thread is getting copied, pasted and printed. Once the inevitable happens, it will give me a warm glow inside for years to come just browsing through this.

[lyonhibs]

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There's plenty for them to be worried about after reading that!

How does that fellow keep a straight face when he puts in the token reference in every statement regarding how the Hearts fans need to continue "to be counted", which basically means "continue to brass up ya plums".

Johnny Jambo in the street has - granted very, very late in the day - brassed up plenty. What a bunch of comedy shysters the Hearts board are, but they've got the leadership they deserve I guess.

[poolman]

[YehButNoBut]

[brog]

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This is a strange argument. Should you not send a violent criminal to jail because (a) it costs taxpayers money and (2) it would be less work for medical staff at A&E?

And wotaboot the "pour encourager les autres" principle?

As has been pointed out above, the approach Hector appears to have taken in this case is to act as a bank. HOMFC have spent money they should have given to Hector, and are being allowed to pay it back at a very leisurely pace with interest but NO PENALTIES. Sucks.

Sucks even more for me! After paying tax up front through PAYE for 44 years & correctly completing a tax return every year, I retired 2 years ago. For the last few months I've been discussing my final 2010/11 return with HMRC. To avoid full detail & to cut a long story short HMRC have hit me with a 15% penalty for what they term ( but I dispute ) careless behaviour on my part. Yams, evade, hide & don't pay tax for years & have no penalty!! I fully understand the rationale behind HMRC's behaviour but it doesn't make it any more palatable. If it wasn't a totally nauseating thought I'd change my name to Johnny Jambo & apply for the penalty to be waived!!

[CropleyWasGod]

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[/B]Sucks even more for me! After paying tax up front through PAYE for 44 years & correctly completing a tax return every year, I retired 2 years ago. For the last few months I've been discussing my final 2010/11 return with HMRC. To avoid full detail & to cut a long story short HMRC have hit me with a 15% penalty for what they term ( but I dispute ) careless behaviour on my part. Yams, evade, hide & don't pay tax for years & have no penalty!! I fully understand the rationale behind HMRC's behaviour but it doesn't make it any more palatable. If it wasn't a totally nauseating thought I'd change my name to Johnny Jambo & apply for the penalty to be waived!!

I am not sure about the claim that there were no penalties. I'd prefer to hear that from another source before I'd believe it.

[Golden Bear]

The whole affair smacks of wheeling and dealing behind the scenes and influences being brought to bear but we'll never know for certain.

[brog]

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I am not sure about the claim that there were no penalties. I'd prefer to hear that from another source before I'd believe it.

Well Yams stated originally that their possible liability was £1.7 million so if they're only paying £1.5mm in total then penalties seem unlikely. Of course Yams could have lied separately twice but it surely wouldn't be sensible for them to publicly announce no penalties if HMRC could refute that statement, would it?

[greenginger]

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I am not sure about the claim that there were no penalties. I'd prefer to hear that from another source before I'd believe it.

According to the Hearts statement the £ 1.5 million is made up from £ 1.2 m. tax and nic. and £300,000 interest. It adds there are no penalties.

Something lost in translation may'be, your penalties are in the post.

[PatHead]

What the statement really means

The sterling efforts of the Hearts supporters have seen the club reduce its projected deficit of £2million between now and the end of the season by almost 50 per cent, director Sergejus Fedotovas revealed today. Thanks so far but we are nowhere near it.

The Gorgie faithful's response to the 2012 Share Issue has helped Heart of Midlothian stave off a recent threat of liquidation. Yes it was that close. Fans have until Wednesday, December 19 to continue to purchase shares and Sergejus revealed that, despite the amount of work already done, the volume of business over the next two weeks remains critical to the club's financial stability as it heads into 2013. You supporters have a hell of a long way to go before we can escape by blaming you for not backing the club.
Speaking to Hearts News, he said: "Words cannot express how grateful we are to those people who have already contributed to the share scheme. Their sacrifices in difficult times have been appreciated by everyone. You don’t really need children’s Christmas presents.
"But with just two weeks now remaining to buy shares, time is running out. The Share Issue is designed to create stability and it is important to achieve the targets we have set. We are actually still desperate as Vlad doesn’t have any more money.
"We would urge those supporters, and particularly those in the corporate sector, to act now if they have not done so already. Much work lies ahead and the window of opportunity for supporters to play their part is closing quickly. Are there any businesses out there as the supporters are pretty much milked dry?
"Unless these targets are hit, going forward we forecast that there will be further battles ahead when it comes to timely payment of bills. No wages or bills paid again this month
"In this scenario, we will be forced again to look at what we can do with our cost base as all revenue streams are sweating at the moment and there is no reasonable expectation that we can bring significantly more revenue to the club at this moment." Redundancies are on the way and we will have to close the main stand as we can’t maintain it, cease our relationship with Heriot Watt and train in public parks.
The club was pleased with the resolution to the tax tribunal, which was announced on the club website earlier today.It could have been worse, they could have shut us down now.
And Sergejus expressed his hope that this latest settlement with HMRC will encourage previously hesitant fans to participate in the Share Issue.
He said: "The resolution of this dispute gives us a positive nod to expect that those supporters who were wary of the immediate effect on the club of the tax case can now step forward in confidence.
"We are keeping our promise to keep this club alive and we have the results - the petition was agreed and paid, the tax case is resolved. We don’t need to give them any money until May so if we can rip you off on a regular basis in the meantime everything is okay.
"It is good to know that we are not alone in our ambitions but we need more involvement as we are in far from good shape and the recent Scottish Cup result is the best evidence of this. We know we are *****.
"Now, more than ever before, is the time for our fans everywhere to stand up and be counted."

[CropleyWasGod]

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Well Yams stated originally that their possible liability was £1.7 million so if they're only paying £1.5mm in total then penalties seem unlikely. Of course Yams could have lied separately twice but it surely wouldn't be sensible for them to publicly announce no penalties if HMRC could refute that statement, would it?

HMRC are unlikely to refute it, as it is their policy (indeed, their statutory duty) not to comment on taxpayer affairs.

Why I say it is that it's not that common for investigation settlements to be reached without any penalties, especially if they have been going for some years, as theirs has.

It is common, though, for assessments to be modified on the basis of discussions and negotiation before the FTTT starts ("the steps of the Court" route). It wouldn't surprise me if that is what has happened... the tax has been reduced, hence the interest, and a mutually agreeable penalty arrived at..... to avoid the risk, for both parties, of losing the case in full.

HMFC may have claimed that there were no penalties, to try and gain some kind of "victory" in front of their fans, knowing that HMRC probably won't refute that claim.

At the end of the day, it's a pedantic point. They have to pay £1.5m, end of story; the make-up is unimportant. However, my professional curiosity is aroused.....

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According to the Hearts statement the £ 1.5 million is made up from £ 1.2 m. tax and nic. and £300,000 interest. It adds there are no penalties.

Something lost in translation may'be, your penalties are in the post.

Those numbers make sense, but they are easily massaged. (disclaimer.... not that I am suggesting that HMFC would ever do anything so Pravda-esque)

I would have believed it more if they had said £800k for tax (ie approximately half of the assessment), £200k interest and £500k penalties.

[Seveno]

Are they going to bring much in during the January sales ? They have few players worth much, there tends to be little transfer activity in January and other clubs will know that Hearts are desperate to sell.

Add to the mix that some of the players might have to accept a wage cut if they move, then are they likely to accept a move ?

[greenginger]

Just got me thinking, the outstanding Tax Bill means definitely no European Football for the Yams for the next 3 years.

Mind you, football of any kind 3 years on might be seen as a bonus for the

[ScottB]

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Are they going to bring much in during the January sales ? They have few players worth much, there tends to be little transfer activity in January and other clubs will know that Hearts are desperate to sell.

Add to the mix that some of the players might have to accept a wage cut if they move, then are they likely to accept a move ?

I can't imagine they'll sell anybody.

Wouldnt be surprised if players are allowed to go for free as part of the wage deferral deal, their big earners are all nearly out of contract, coupled with everyone knowing the state they are in and the chances of anyone wanting to buy a Webster or a Barr suggests that players will simple be released.

Maybe a token bid for somebody like McGowan, but assuming their financial reality causes some sane actions over by, all their big earners should go next month.


No doubt they'll sign Skackel on deadline day all the same mind you!