Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[DaveF]

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I didn't say that.

Had HMRC put the company under, there would have been redundancies at HMFC. Those non-playing staff who couldn't find other jobs would have to go on benefits.

Double-whammy for us. No tax income, and benefits expense.

Apologies - I was skimming across the posts and misread your comments.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Apologies - I was skimming across the posts and misread your comments.

No problem.

I understand your anger, but think of it this way... HMFC now have a debt of £1.5m that they didn't have last week. That has to inform their budgeting for the next few years.

[StevieC]

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Doesn't seem like HMRC tactics with tax avoiders. Reduce the amount and agree payment plan? Stinks of back room political interference.

I'm not so sure.
Given that Rangers (as opposed to The Rangers) have (allegedly) just "won" their tax case, it might be seen to be prudent to accept a reduced amount to save a lengthy and expensive trial/tribunal that could potentiall be "lost".

[Cracker]

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No problem.

I understand your anger, but think of it this way... HMFC now have a debt of £1.5m that they didn't have last week. That has to inform their budgeting for the next few years.

Guess relegation will hurry things along:)

[CropleyWasGod]

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Guess relegation will hurry things along:)

In many ways, that's the "fairest" way. They get sporting sanctions for sporting excesses. They also can't say "oh, it was the tax-man that screwed us".

[Hibs7]

So they have just paid HMRC £450,000 are due another £500,000 in May, received £300,000 from The Rangers and have raised £600,000 from the share issue ...... Hmmm
By my sums they are still £50,000 short and still have 2 months players salaries to cough up, no further income from the Scottish cup ( aw shame ) but an Easter rd semi which should net them about £250,000 - tax. They are living on a knife edge, oops forgot they have a £24m debt to service as well. I would say that it is not looking too healthy down Tinhutcastle way ......

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

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So they have just paid HMRC £450,000 are due another £500,000 in May, received £300,000 from The Rangers and have raised £600,000 from the share issue ...... Hmmm
By my sums they are still £50,000 short and still have 2 months players salaries to cough up, no further income from the Scottish cup ( aw shame ) but an Easter rd semi which should net them about £250,000 - tax. They are living on a knife edge, oops forgot they have a £24m debt to service as well. I would say that it is not looking too healthy down Tinhutcastle way ......

They're due 500k from Rangers next year so that takes care of that one.

[GloryGlory]

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No problem.

I understand your anger, but think of it this way... HMFC now have a debt of £1.5m that they didn't have last week. That has to inform their budgeting for the next few years.

They also still have the problem of financing the redevelopment of their death-trap, accident-waiting-to-happen main stand. Surely, even this Jambo council can't go on renewing safety certificates indefinitely.

I would imagine that they will try to renegotiate the contracts of the highest earners and offer them 30% or so of what they are currently on.

[MB62]

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If they don't pick up 10 points before their main players get emptied in January I fancy them to go down this season.

and if the do pick up those points, there will no doubt be win bonuses due to be paid to their players.

Was in a taxi from Edinburgh airport on Friday when the driver was saying he is mates with something at Swinie (can't remember who now, did at the time and it was an ex player I think on the coaching staff now maybe, jet lag is still scrambling my brain) anyway, he was saying that Sutton is on £3,000 a week appearance money and that the yams just can't afford to play himand are desperate to offload him. I know he came on on Sunday so maybe that's another £3000 out of their coffers
Don't know how true this is BTW, you know what taxi drivers are like

[PatHead]

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Not really. HMRC aren't daft. They would have got zip if they'd played that game.

This way, there is a chance that they will get some of that money.... and they also have the moral high ground of having been seen to help preserve jobs and future revenue for the Treasury.

Agree something is better than nothing at all but kind of flies in the face of Osborne's declared hard line on tax evaders though. Would also love to see the business plan they presented as well!

[clerriehibs]

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No problem.

I understand your anger, but think of it this way... HMFC now have a debt of £1.5m that they didn't have last week. That has to inform their budgeting for the next few years.

You think? Budgeting doesn't really seem to have figured in anything the yams have done over recent years..

[Crazyhorse]

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I'm not so sure.
Given that Rangers (as opposed to The Rangers) have (allegedly) just "won" their tax case, it might be seen to be prudent to accept a reduced amount to save a lengthy and expensive trial/tribunal that could potentiall be "lost".

Also sort of on this point. Given that there is still an investigation into dual contracts at oldcogers does this arrangement the yams have come to mean they are effectively owning up to deploying dual contracts for their employees? Is this £1.5m tax they should have paid on the Lith contracts? If so should we be expecting an SPL investigation?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Also sort of on this point. Given that there is still an investigation into dual contracts at oldcogers does this arrangement the yams have come to mean they are effectively owning up to deploying dual contracts for their employees? Is this £1.5m tax they should have paid on the Lith contracts? If so should we be expecting an SPL investigation?

There has been no suggestion, other than on here, that the tax case has been about dual contracts.

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Agree something is better than nothing at all but kind of flies in the face of Osborne's declared hard line on tax evaders though. Would also love to see the business plan they presented as well!

Thread hijack, I know, but don't get me started on Osborne. HMRC can only work with the tools they have been given by Government. It's the Government that make the tax laws in the first place, and the Government that have been cutting HMRC's resources for years.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Given they don't have to start paying it until May, could it be they do not ever expect or intend to pay it.

[inglisavhibs]

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So they have just paid HMRC £450,000 are due another £500,000 in May, received £300,000 from The Rangers and have raised £600,000 from the share issue ...... Hmmm
By my sums they are still £50,000 short and still have 2 months players salaries to cough up, no further income from the Scottish cup ( aw shame ) but an Easter rd semi which should net them about £250,000 - tax. They are living on a knife edge, oops forgot they have a £24m debt to service as well. I would say that it is not looking too healthy down Tinhutcastle way ......

They will get nowhere near £250000 from the semi. They end up with around one third of gate receipts and will be very lucky to get £100k.
This was a tax bill Hearts were very confident of not having to pay and although they will be happy with the three year deal it is still a big hole in their fragile finances. The equivalent of 5 players on £2k per week.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Given they don't have to start paying it until May, could it be they do not ever expect or intend to pay it.

Nah, for me it ties in with my theory that they have been playing "French cricket" for months.... ie buying time in the hope that they can either find a mug (sorry, buyer) or else milk as much cash as they can until they really do have to circle the wagons.

[Pete]

Fire-sale in January or letting lots of players go at the end of the season, while relying on youth to plug the gaps. If their kids are anything like Patterson or McHattie they will toil and will be a poor side. In fact, they are already a poor side.

I'll take that.

[clerriehibs]

I'm a bit disappointed nothing has been made public about the alleged damage to the south stand. Let the rest of Scotland see them for what they are, and remove any sympathy for them that's out there.

[Seveno]

Paying £500,000 in may will not be a problem for them. They'll be able to pay it out of their Scottish Cup run. Oh, wait a minute ................................:fenlon

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm a bit disappointed nothing has been made public about the alleged damage to the south stand. Let the rest of Scotland see them for what they are, and remove any sympathy for them that's out there.

It's not the Hibs way, rightly or wrongly.

However, if we did that, the next time some of our own bampots did the same at Tynie, then Hearts would be entitled to do the same.

[lapsedhibee]

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Would you prefer that the taxpayer got nothing, and that staff went on the dole? Because that would have been the case had HMRC not adopted the approach they have.

This is a strange argument. Should you not send a violent criminal to jail because (a) it costs taxpayers money and (2) it would be less work for medical staff at A&E?

And wotaboot the "pour encourager les autres" principle?

As has been pointed out above, the approach Hector appears to have taken in this case is to act as a bank. HOMFC have spent money they should have given to Hector, and are being allowed to pay it back at a very leisurely pace with interest but NO PENALTIES. Sucks.

[PatHead]

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They will get nowhere near £250000 from the semi. They end up with around one third of gate receipts and will be very lucky to get £100k.
This was a tax bill Hearts were very confident of not having to pay and although they will be happy with the three year deal it is still a big hole in their fragile finances. The equivalent of 5 players on £2k per week.

Do they not combine both semi gates and final gate. Then split the profit.

[Crazyhorse]

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There has been no suggestion, other than on here, that the tax case has been about dual contracts.

I thought the yams had disputed whether they should pay this tax bill. So if this is just unpaid tax then it must go back a signficant period of time. Certainly it meant they could pay players more than their rivals and gain an advantage for that period of time.

[Seveno]

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I'm a bit disappointed nothing has been made public about the alleged damage to the south stand. Let the rest of Scotland see them for what they are, and remove any sympathy for them that's out there.

How much damage was there ?

[clerriehibs]

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How much damage was there ?

It's on one of the other threads so best discussed there. I was thinking for this thread more along the lines of they've got the begging bowls out to help them survive but trash ER, which they'll have to pay for ... these costs have to be made public! Far more interesting than Gary O's latest escapade!

[CropleyWasGod]

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I thought the yams had disputed whether they should pay this tax bill. So if this is just unpaid tax then it must go back a signficant period of time. Certainly it meant they could pay players more than their rivals and gain an advantage for that period of time.

They disputed it, for sure, and it does go back a number of years (as evidenced in the accounts). However, like I say, nobody outside of those involved in the case KNOWS what it is about; all we can do is speculate.

And, of course, for the next few years they have to pay their players less than their rivals.

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This is a strange argument. Should you not send a violent criminal to jail because (a) it costs taxpayers money and (2) it would be less work for medical staff at A&E?

And wotaboot the "pour encourager les autres" principle?

As has been pointed out above, the approach Hector appears to have taken in this case is to act as a bank. HOMFC have spent money they should have given to Hector, and are being allowed to pay it back at a very leisurely pace with interest but NO PENALTIES. Sucks.

HMRC have a dual responsibility, and are often torn between the two. On one hand they have to maximise the income to the Treasury, and on the other they have to be seen to uphold the law.

The two don't always sit well together. However, in recent years, I have definitely seen a trend towards the first... and that's understandable in the current climate. Whether it's "right", of course, is an argument that could go on for a long time.

One further point, though. We only have Hearts' word for it that there were no penalties. Given the nature of that website, I wouldn't take that as gospel. Of course, HMRC won't tell us, but for all we know it could be the case that the tax bill is £1m and the penalties 500k.

[Hibercelona]

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How much damage was there ?

Hopefully 8526 ticket sales worth of damage. Or preferably more.

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They disputed it, for sure, and it does go back a number of years (as evidenced in the accounts). However, like I say, nobody outside of those involved in the case KNOWS what it is about; all we can do is speculate.

And, of course, for the next few years they have to pay their players less than their rivals.

Assuming they actually survive, I reckon it will be for far longer than a few years.

[lapsedhibee]

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One further point, though. We only have Hearts' word for it that there were no penalties. Given the nature of that website, I wouldn't take that as gospel. Of course, HMRC won't tell us, but for all we know it could be the case that the tax bill is £1m and the penalties 500k.

True. The sooner some Hectorworker leaks the facts the better.

[ScottB]

This is probably better than liquidation in a way, on several levels:

1. HMRC will get some money, better for the country than it all heading for a submarine in the Baltic Sea. Sure they are celebrating, but from now on surely a missed payment for any of their tax liabilities will have them headed for the blender?

2. They are going to be weak. They think they are weak just now, wait till their core of pricey players are gone.

3. They are still idiots, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they shift most of their pricey players then bring Skackel back on deadline day. I for one would love this; we could hammer a team comprised of him and a bunch of kids.

4. Paying that first instalment in May will take a huge chunk out of next seasons ST money, so they'll be an even worse mess next season than they are currently.

5. Excluding this amount, Romanov's lackey reckoned the fans needed to cough up 2 million to survive the season, they now need 500k more (though I think they use next seasons ST money, expect them to go on sale stupidly early), so the fans haven't even raised a third of the total they need to survive.

[lapsedhibee]

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1. HMRC will get some money, better for the country than it all heading for a submarine in the Baltic Sea. Sure they are celebrating, but from now on surely a missed payment for any of their tax liabilities will have them headed for the blender?

But why would it? Now that Hector has indicated that he is willing to bend to the argument that the prospect of some money is always better than none, there can shirley never be a point when it is better to liquidise than to allow to continue intermittently defaulting. It's not as if Hector is going to reach a point when he simply won't stand for HOMFC taking the pish, because that's what they've already been doing for long enough.